Unusual Attitude recovery article - AOPA Flight Training Magazine

Q: in IMC with failed AI, pilot believes he is in a death spiral, how does he tell which side is shiny side?
 
Ron Levy said:
That might be a good technique with solid external visual references in an aerobatic aircraft, but increasing bank in an unusual attitude when on the instruments in a partial panel situation isn't what you'd want to do. As for doing that on instruments with an operable AI in a typical light GA airplane, I'm not real sure either way.
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Chances are if you have a vacuum powered AI, rolling into a 90 degree bank will pretty much guarantee you're on partial panel because the AI's gonna tumble. I'd also think that using knife edge flight to unload the wing is going to eat a lot of altitude, something that might not be advisable if you were relatively close to the ground in the first place.

Seriously though, this technique can be the only (or at least the most effective) means of escaping a very deep stall where there's little or no response to elevator input. That's not typically a problem with the spam cans and more the realm of swept wing jets.
 
nosehair said:
I discovered how to use the VSI as a primary pitch instrument when I learned helicopter instruments.

In helicopters, the AI isn't a good reference as to the pitch of the wing, so we learned to use the VSI just as Palm Pilot describes it, and it is definitely a much better immediate indicator of pitch for airplanes too.

This technique is described in the FAA Instrument flying Handbook, but only in the Chapter on helicopter instruments...
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Now that you mention it, my instructor for the instrument rating had a helicopter certificate, so maybe that's where he picked up the technique too.
 
Ron Levy said:
That might be a good technique with solid external visual references in an aerobatic aircraft, but increasing bank in an unusual attitude when on the instruments in a partial panel situation isn't what you'd want to do. As for doing that on instruments with an operable AI in a typical light GA airplane, I'm not real sure either way.
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Yes, this would be for VFR. As for IFR I have no experience to say.
 
nosehair said:
But really, the vsi and altimeter start moving, starting slowing, stopping, reversing, all at the same time.
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...except for the inherent lag in the VSI.

Y'all can do what you like as long as it works for you. After 1500+ hours of instrument training given, I've found that the trainees meet standards quicker and more easily when using the altimeter rather than the VSI, and that's an issue when they're trying to get their IR in nine days and a checkride. It also avoids the "bracketing" that Tim describes when using the VSI. But as always with techniques, YMMV.
 
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Ron Levy said:
...except for the inherent lag in the VSI.

Y'all can do what you like as long as it works for you. After 1500+ hours of instrument training given, I've found that the trainees meet standards quicker and more easily when using the altimeter rather than the VSI, and that's an issue when they're trying to get their IR in nine days and a checkride. It also avoids the "bracketing" that Tim describes when using the VSI. But as always with techniques, YMMV.
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This is exactly how I was taught doing my accelerated IR and it worked very well for me.
 
I've noticed that different instructors teach different techniques, and they always think they're 100% right and the others are 100% wrong!
 
Ron Levy said:
...except for the inherent lag in the VSI....
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According to the Instrument Procedures Handbook, page 6-5, "The initial movement of the vertical speed needle is instantaneous..."

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/...andbook/media/FAA-H-8083-15A - Chapter 06.pdf

The initial movement is what I was taught to use. The method seems to converge on the correct attitude very quickly.

I can't comment on which technique is better, since I've only used the technique I was taught.
 
Palmpilot said:
According to the Instrument Procedures Handbook, page 6-5, "The initial movement of the vertical speed needle is instantaneous..."

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/...andbook/media/FAA-H-8083-15A - Chapter 06.pdf

The initial movement is what I was taught to use. The method seems to converge on the correct attitude very quickly.

I can't comment on which technique is better, since I've only used the technique I was taught.
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OMG....didn't we just have this argument within the past few months?

I think I'd rather talk about treadmills:mad2:

In Ron's defense....he did state that your mileage may vary and as I stated, in my personal experience, my mileage was similar to Ron's.
 
Ron, I know you're not gonna have any success with my technique of using the vsi as the "input control instrument", rather than the altimeter, because, as I said, you are dealing with (mostly) accomplished pilots who are after a quick IR and you won't have time to have them re-learn to look at the VSI, instead of the altimeter.

I had many thousands of airplane instrument hours when i was subjected to rotor-wing instrument attitude flying, and was forced by circumstances to re-learn a new scan.

And I wouldn't try to present this technique in your program.

-Unless the pilot does not have good pitch control, ie., using only the AI.

Then he has not learned to read the altimeter yet, so I can present the vsi/altimeter relationship, and go from that.

The pay-off, later on, to me, is the skill learned in the fine feather-touch control of the vsi positively translates to glide-slope control when starting an instrument descent.

Imagine that the yoke is directly and mechanically connected to the VSI needle. Push and pull the yoke and observe the vsi behavior and you can develop this fine touch of push-pull that has a definite and direct effect on the vsi needle.

This same exact finely tuned push-pull on yoke for the glideslope (with properly set power) will keep you so steady on the glideslope, you'll have to pull off momentarily to make sure it's working.
 
nosehair said:
Imagine that the yoke is directly and mechanically connected to the VSI needle. Push and pull the yoke and observe the vsi behavior and you can develop this fine touch of push-pull that has a definite and direct effect on the vsi needle.
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That's a great explanation and is what I do in my head. I've never understood all the VSI-bashing out there. I periodically hear "it's the worst instrument in the airplane", "it's always wrong," etc. I never had a problem with it :confused:

Using the altimeter alone tells you if you are climbing, descending, or level. But it doesn't tell you whether your pitch is changing or how quickly, unless you analyze the movement of the altimeter to see if is speeding up or slowing down. That seems like something difficult to distinguish and kind of silly when I have an instrument right below it that tells me the same thing.
 
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The VSI lags too much for me. I was taught to use the altimeter. You can tell how fast you're climbing and descending pretty quickly by observing the speed of the needle movement.
 
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