University of North Dakota

hindsight2020 said:
The fact that DYING from exposure within city limits by mere benign under-preparation is a realistic possibility, tells you all you need to know about the "subjective" merit of comparing a ND winter to the humidity and temperatures of the Southeast US.
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Let's look at some stats, shall we:
hazstat-chart12.gif


You see that big spike there? That's death caused by heat. See that little bitty one? That's ones from cold.

To summarize, for 2012, 19.4 people died from heat for every person who died from cold. Over 10 years, that average was still over 4:1.

hindsight2020 said:
I'm not trying to equate the indignity of living in North dakota in the winter as that of getting terminal cancer, but to suggest it's just as harmless as an aggregate 90deg/90%h southeastern summer is just crazy.
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You're right. ND winter is nowhere near as deadly as the heat. There's no comparison.
 
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At the risk of sounding like that guy, you're from Florida. When you compare the costs of out of state UND tuition versus ERAU tuition, they aren't that far apart. Why move halfway across the country when you've got a place a few hours away?
 
hindsight2020 said:
An Indiana winter is a nuisance, a Kansas winter is a nuisance, hell even a Michigan winter is a nuisance. a North Dakota half-year can kill you. I'm not trying to equate the indignity of living in North dakota in the winter as that of getting terminal cancer, but to suggest it's just as harmless as an aggregate 90deg/90%h southeastern summer is just crazy.
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Ever spent a winter in ND or northwestern MN ?

The weather hazard is no different from what you would encounter in desert travel in the summer. You prepare for it and move on.
 
UND is getting very big into UAS, in the event that exposure to that is of any interest.
 
I think what the high amount of heat deaths is about is income and not having air conditioning available to them in their own homes.

It is very common when you see a heat wave in New England or Chicago where many homes are not air conditioned, to see older people drop like flies. Public buildings stay open so that they can retreat to air conditioned buildings.

I bet if you tried to compare Southern Texas heat deaths to ND winter deaths the situation would look a lot more similar as both peoples prepare for their environment so what you are really measuring is peoples ability to prepare or get caught off guard.
 
Grew up in North Dakota. Used to deliver newspapers (~ten years old) on -40 degree mornings, camped out on -20 degree night, rode snowmobiles in the same temperature ranges. Flying was a bit of a pain, as the pre-heat could only do SO much, and the plexiglass didn't tend to defrost.....

I think that background prepared me for flying an open-cockpit airplane year-round in Washington state, where the temperature rarely reaches zero.

Here's a shot of my plane in the middle of a winter jaunt. Notice the icicles on the Agwagon...

ice4.gif


North Dakota: Many are cold, but few are frozen.
North Dakota: The snow doesn't melt, it just blows around until it wears out.
North Dakota: Twenty-three below keeps out the riff-raff.

:)

Ron Wanttaja
 
hindsight2020 said:
The fact that DYING from exposure within city limits by mere benign under-preparation is a realistic possibility, tells you all you need to know about the "subjective" merit of comparing a ND winter to the humidity and temperatures of the Southeast US. Which is to say, they're not even close to being equally apart from the ideal datum point. I'm from Puerto Rico, went to school all over the Southeast and Midwest US. Which is to say I know where your climate acclimation baseline sits currently. I'm telling you, you're gonna hate going to college in North Dakota. Just like I hated Indiana between November and March.

An Indiana winter is a nuisance, a Kansas winter is a nuisance, hell even a Michigan winter is a nuisance. a North Dakota half-year can kill you. I'm not trying to equate the indignity of living in North dakota in the winter as that of getting terminal cancer, but to suggest it's just as harmless as an aggregate 90deg/90%h southeastern summer is just crazy. You can get an ATC education anywhere warmer dude. Embry is not your only outlet in Florida in order to do this.

Good luck!
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Wimp!! :D
 
wanttaja said:
North Dakota: Twenty-three below keeps out the riff-raff.
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That's why I stay here :D .

Lots of truth to it. With 0F and blowing snow, you just dont have many people 'hanging out' on the porch or finding other ways to get into trouble.

If it wasn't for wife-beaters, we had no murders at all ;) (not quite true anymore, we had a contract hit 2 years ago and with the oil money, there is lots of trouble out west)
 
You are probably better off getting a petroleum engineering degree, graduate 2 years sooner with a lot less debt and then go to North Dakota for a starting salary averaging 125k buy a plane and fly as much as you want.
 
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soyAnarchisto said:
You are probably better off getting a petroleum engineering degree, graduate 2 years sooner with a lot less debt and then go to North Dakota for a starting salary averaging 125k but a plan and fly as much as you want.
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Define better off? Make more money, perhaps. Be generally happier in life, probably not if he truly wants to fly for a living.
 
jpower said:
You can always add more layers. There comes a point when taking off layers, however, where you must stop.
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Can I play too :goofy:
Air conditioning comes on a lot faster than the heat (For cars, planes)
If nominal temp is 70, then +20 is better than -117
that's not counting wind chill factor
it's dry cold (oh wait, does that work for cold?)
so if its a -47 on the ground, it's got to be -70 just 5000' up, any rental I'll ever was a bit drafty, so no relief.
Does my flight computer even go that low?:D
Women wear less clothes in 90 temps:wink2:
 
soyAnarchisto said:
You are probably better off getting a petroleum engineering degree, graduate 2 years sooner with a lot less debt and then go to North Dakota for a starting salary averaging 125k but a plan and fly as much as you want.
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Even better, get a CDL with hazmat endorsement, make 100k after 6 months. Live in a trailer, dont spend all your money on hookers and blow and pay for your flight training without a penny of loans.
 
weilke said:
Even better, get a CDL with hazmat endorsement, make 100k after 6 months. Live in a trailer, dont spend all your money on hookers and blow and pay for your flight training without a penny of loans.
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per my buddy who's running a trucking company up there, trailers are getting pricey.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
Make your campus visit in January or February then you can be sure of the worst of it. If it aint that bad then go for it.
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Thats the plan. Just a matter of finding time to fly up there for a weekday tour and then get back before life starts on Monday again.
Where can I rent a parka? :D

hindsight2020 said:
The fact that DYING from exposure within city limits by mere benign under-preparation is a realistic possibility, tells you all you need to know about the "subjective" merit of comparing a ND winter to the humidity and temperatures of the Southeast US. Which is to say, they're not even close to being equally apart from the ideal datum point. I'm from Puerto Rico, went to school all over the Southeast and Midwest US. Which is to say I know where your climate acclimation baseline sits currently. I'm telling you, you're gonna hate going to college in North Dakota. Just like I hated Indiana between November and March.

An Indiana winter is a nuisance, a Kansas winter is a nuisance, hell even a Michigan winter is a nuisance. a North Dakota half-year can kill you. I'm not trying to equate the indignity of living in North dakota in the winter as that of getting terminal cancer, but to suggest it's just as harmless as an aggregate 90deg/90%h southeastern summer is just crazy. You can get an ATC education anywhere warmer dude. Embry is not your only outlet in Florida in order to do this.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

KSCessnaDriver said:
At the risk of sounding like that guy, you're from Florida. When you compare the costs of out of state UND tuition versus ERAU tuition, they aren't that far apart. Why move halfway across the country when you've got a place a few hours away?
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Actually ERAU is 30,000 a year tuition wise (plus flying). UND is 18,000 a year (plus flying). In addition to that UND has a program where dependents of veterans can recieve in state tution; 8,000 a year (plus flying).

wanttaja said:
Grew up in North Dakota. Used to deliver newspapers (~ten years old) on -40 degree mornings, camped out on -20 degree night, rode snowmobiles in the same temperature ranges. Flying was a bit of a pain, as the pre-heat could only do SO much, and the plexiglass didn't tend to defrost.....

I think that background prepared me for flying an open-cockpit airplane year-round in Washington state, where the temperature rarely reaches zero.

Here's a shot of my plane in the middle of a winter jaunt. Notice the icicles on the Agwagon...

ice4.gif


North Dakota: Many are cold, but few are frozen.
North Dakota: The snow doesn't melt, it just blows around until it wears out.
North Dakota: Twenty-three below keeps out the riff-raff.

:)

Ron Wanttaja
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Cool shot!
 
teejayevans said:
Can I play too :goofy:
Air conditioning comes on a lot faster than the heat (For cars, planes)
If nominal temp is 70, then +20 is better than -117
that's not counting wind chill factor
it's dry cold (oh wait, does that work for cold?)
so if its a -47 on the ground, it's got to be -70 just 5000' up, any rental I'll ever was a bit drafty, so no relief.
Does my flight computer even go that low?:D
Women wear less clothes in 90 temps:wink2:
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Hey, with global warming raising temps a degree or two over the next 100 years, ND will only have -45 deg in January.
 
bartmc said:
per my buddy who's running a trucking company up there, trailers are getting pricey.
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And they're clamping down on temporary housing....some amazing crap has been hauled out there! Housing is expensive.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Actually ERAU is 30,000 a year tuition wise (plus flying). UND is 18,000 a year (plus flying). In addition to that UND has a program where dependents of veterans can recieve in state tution; 8,000 a year (plus flying).
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Fair enough, you've done your research. There is nothing wrong with UND. Just have to do the alumni like thing and try to convince people to go where I went.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Actually ERAU is 30,000 a year tuition wise (plus flying). UND is 18,000 a year (plus flying). In addition to that UND has a program where dependents of veterans can recieve in state tution; 8,000 a year (plus flying).
!
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That difference is worth buying a sweater.

Last couple of winters have been mild, no worse than NYC or Wisconsin. Some snow, a couple of cold days (-10), but nothing extreme. 2008 is the last snowy winter I remember, the -47F pic posted earllier was in '06.

As for the campus visit: I signed my first contract on a Feb 8th with a foot of fresh snow in front of the hotel door and -20F and blowing snow. It has been getting better ever since.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Thats the plan. Just a matter of finding time to fly up there for a weekday tour and then get back before life starts on Monday again.
Where can I rent a parka? :D
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I got some hanging in the closet that I've not touched since I moved to Tennessee!

Know one guy who went to UND on a hockey scholarship many years ago...played a couple years in the NHL even...great program there. He got a first rate business education while he was there too.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Fair enough, you've done your research. There is nothing wrong with UND. Just have to do the alumni like thing and try to convince people to go where I went.
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Im still applying to ERAU and I would much rather live in Daytona (or Prescott for that matter) but the difference in cost is enough to sway my decision.

If I were to get a ROTC scholarship though...
 
One person I know went to UND and is shall we say, a bit "cultured". He never fully adjusted to the best restaurant in town being the "new" Olive Garden.

If you're kinda snobbish and stuck up, keep this in mind.
 
I've evaluated pilots from both programs under similar conditions and found that the bell curve is similar. Both turn out some excellent pilots, as well as some others. The primary difference is that ERAU think they're better.
 
denverpilot said:
One person I know went to UND and is shall we say, a bit "cultured". He never fully adjusted to the best restaurant in town being the "new" Olive Garden.

If you're kinda snobbish and stuck up, keep this in mind.
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They got an Olive Garden? Man thats a step up from Waffle House!

They have Waffle House right?!
 
I went dogsled ding 100 miles north of the arctic circle. It only got to -25 and it wasn't windy which makes a big difference... The best part of the cold weather gear we used was the "bunny boots" I don't know what they are exactly but my feet were never cold. To me having warms hands and feet make all the difference in my level of tolerance to cold. Wonder if you can buy bunny boots other than in Alaska.

Anyway, it's only a few years of your life, will pass quickly and can be tolerated well enough. I say go for it. You can always move back to the hotter climes when you're finished and who knows maybe you'll like snow.
 
Jeanie said:
I went dogsled ding 100 miles north of the arctic circle. It only got to -25 and it wasn't windy which makes a big difference... The best part of the cold weather gear we used was the "bunny boots" I don't know what they are exactly but my feet were never cold. To me having warms hands and feet make all the difference in my level of tolerance to cold. Wonder if you can buy bunny boots other than in Alaska.

Anyway, it's only a few years of your life, will pass quickly and can be tolerated well enough. I say go for it. You can always move back to the hotter climes when you're finished and who knows maybe you'll like snow.
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Oh I like snow. But my experience with snow has been on mountains where extreme sports could be applied. Ive never lived in it for any amount of time.
 
denverpilot said:
One person I know went to UND and is shall we say, a bit "cultured". He never fully adjusted to the best restaurant in town being the "new" Olive Garden.

If you're kinda snobbish and stuck up, keep this in mind.
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That may have been the best "new" restaurant, but the old standbys are where the college crowd goes...and that starts with the Red Pepper and their Grinder!
 
wabower said:
I've evaluated pilots from both programs under similar conditions and found that the bell curve is similar. Both turn out some excellent pilots, as well as some others. The primary difference is that ERAU think they're better.
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: yeahthat: While they've struggled the last few years due to poor advisors, they have a pretty impressive track record in the intercollegiate flying competitions.
 
Jeanie said:
I went dogsled ding 100 miles north of the arctic circle. It only got to -25 and it wasn't windy which makes a big difference... The best part of the cold weather gear we used was the "bunny boots" I don't know what they are exactly but my feet were never cold. To me having warms hands and feet make all the difference in my level of tolerance to cold. Wonder if you can buy bunny boots other than in Alaska.

Anyway, it's only a few years of your life, will pass quickly and can be tolerated well enough. I say go for it. You can always move back to the hotter climes when you're finished and who knows maybe you'll like snow.
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Bunny Boots came out of the military and they're amazing!
 
Seanaldinho said:
Thats funny!

Just a bit brisk...

If I were to go in the middle of winter what kind of clothes should I bring with me? Under armour and a hoodie are the extent of my cold weather clothes.
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Just a warm coat gloves and a stocking cap...and long sleeves rather than short. The campus bookstore can outfit you with the requisite UND sweatshirts and stocking cap!
 
LDJones said:
Just a warm coat gloves and a stocking cap...and long sleeves rather than short. The campus bookstore can outfit you with the requisite UND sweatshirts and stocking cap!
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Im sure they'd love to, for a price ;)

I know my campus bookstore charges almost 25 bucks for a t-shirt...
 
LDJones said:
Just a warm coat gloves and a stocking cap...and long sleeves rather than short. The campus bookstore can outfit you with the requisite UND sweatshirts and stocking cap!
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He should just plan to get used to the cold so I suggest shorts, tee-shirt and flip-flops. After all, frostbite is just a nuisance...

More practically a Carhardt hoody and thermal underwear will get you through most of a winter. A good parka comes in handy for the bad days. Gloves turn out to be a personal choice, ski gloves will be good the first year. After that you can get by with much less. I know folks who disdain gloves until it's below zero and then they'll wear a thin cotton glove.
 
Clark1961 said:
He should just plan to get used to the cold so I suggest shorts, tee-shirt and flip-flops. After all, frostbite is just a nuisance...

More practically a Carhardt hoody and thermal underwear will get you through most of a winter. A good parka comes in handy for the bad days. Gloves turn out to be a personal choice, ski gloves will be good the first year. After that you can get by with much less. I know folks who disdain gloves until it's below zero and then they'll wear a thin cotton glove.
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When I lived in alaska, I was always amused by the native's choice of clothing, parkas and shorts.
 
Lotsa heavy bus drivers these days do nothing but complain about the work and stress of the ATP in the airlines. Plenty of people too choose employment with a living wage to be preferable to low wage highly competitive environment. Especially tricky career path if you can't sample it before you sink all that time and energy into a program and then struggle to get that first job out of school. And if you come out of said school with only a PPL....

Does he want to fly, or fly for a living? Because it will take a VERY long time to get to the point where he can make a living. Even longer to support a family or own a piece of the American dream.

KSCessnaDriver said:
Define better off? Make more money, perhaps. Be generally happier in life, probably not if he truly wants to fly for a living.
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