Unfortunate accident at Light Sport Expo

FastEddieB

FastEddieB

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Fast Eddie B
Karen and I are at the Light Sport Expo in Sebring.

A short time ago I witnessed what I think must have been a fatal accident.

Some kind of seaplane-looking thing was maneuvering at low altitude and stalled and spun in.

16106592280_20e61494f7.jpg


No other details at details this time.
 
Well that sucks.
 
I have always felt spooky about that particular plane. It just seems to be way too heavy for the power plant, and the center of gravity seems out of place to me.

Prayers for the families...
 
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I recall an amphib went down in the lake at Osh a few years ago. Not sure if it was a searay or one of these or something else.
 
Florida Cracker said:
I have always felt spooky about that particular plane. It just seems to be way to heavy for the power plant, and the center of gravity seems out of place to me.

Prayers for the families...
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I think this is the one I flew in a few weeks ago with one of the pilots killed. It had a 912 and the gross weight is 1430. It had plenty of power but they fly
draggy. Like flying a tank. It got off the ground and out of the water in a
short distance though. It's a fun plane .. but they fly different.

RT
 
RogerT said:
I think this is the one I flew in a few weeks ago with one of the pilots killed. It had a 912 and the gross weight is 1430. It had plenty of power but they fly
draggy. Like flying a tank. It got off the ground and out of the water in a
short distance though. It's a fun plane .. but they fly different.

RT
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If I had to make a wild butt guess, I would say that the plane is back heavy, and you have to be really careful about pulling the nose up too much, or it will start to nose over backwards.

I just feel spooky about it, and could never bring myself to fly in one. That probably says more about me than the plane, but when I get that feeling about any plane, i don't get in.
 
Florida Cracker said:
If I had to make a wild butt guess, I would say that the plane is back heavy, and you have to be really careful about pulling the nose up too much, or it will start to nose over backwards.

I just feel spooky about it, and could never bring myself to fly in one. That probably says more about me than the plane, but when I get that feeling about any plane, i don't get in.
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Well, the incident aircraft is obviously the latest version of the Aventura. Which is sort of like a Searey. As far your uneducated guess of the aircraft being "back heavy" there are probably over a thousand flying all over the world without out any unusual problems. Go ahead and feel spooky if you want but you're just kind of making yourself sound stupid.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Well, the incident aircraft is obviously the latest version of the Aventura. Which is sort of like a Searey. As far your uneducated guess of the aircraft being "back heavy" there are probably over a thousand flying all over the world without out any unusual problems. Go ahead and feel spooky if you want but you're just kind of making yourself sound stupid.
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I love the new SeaRay, which is LSA certified but the aventura doesn't give me any of the same sense of comfort, which is good enough to keep me out of one.

Other than that, I'm sure you're such an expert that Chuck Yeager doesn't make a move without you to tell him what is dumb, and what is right.
 
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Florida Cracker said:
If I had to make a wild butt guess, I would say that the plane is back heavy, and you have to be really careful about pulling the nose up too much, or it will start to nose over backwards.

I just feel spooky about it, and could never bring myself to fly in one. That probably says more about me than the plane, but when I get that feeling about any plane, i don't get in.
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The plane didn't fly "back heavy" when I flew it. It flew fine. The engine ran fine. Everything worked. They're a high thrust line, draggy plane. Very popular though with them and the Seareay having quite a following around here. They have a good safety record. But they fly different.
We weighed the one we've been working on with digital scales and at full gross it came out in the middle of the CG range. I flew with Dennis and he was a good stick, very careful with his flying. I don't know which one was flying. Jason was I believe their Director of Sales. They were both pilots.
I've heard complaints about how the Expo wants them to fly for the
showcase. Low and slow with a small area to turn around. The pressure to show their aircraft in a good light to the crowd is a factor.
I'll be very interested in what the NTSB comes up with.

RT
 
RogerT said:
The plane didn't fly "back heavy" when I flew it. It flew fine. The engine ran fine. Everything worked. They're a high thrust line, draggy plane. Very popular though with them and the Seareay having quite a following around here. They have a good safety record. But they fly different.
We weighed the one we've been working on with digital scales and at full gross it came out in the middle of the CG range. I flew with Dennis and he was a good stick, very careful with his flying. I don't know which one was flying. Jason was I believe their Director of Sales. They were both pilots.
I've heard complaints about how the Expo wants them to fly for the
showcase. Low and slow with a small area to turn around. The pressure to show their aircraft in a good light to the crowd is a factor.
I'll be very interested in what the NTSB comes up with.

RT
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With all the cell phone cams and Go Pros so widely used at OSH / Sun&Fun, Light Sport Expo and alot of other airshows around the world . You can bet there are several videos of this accident to help the NTSB uncover the cause....

Sad deal for sure though...:sad::sad::sad::sad:
 
Detailed report with video of the news account here:

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/27870126/two-dead-after-sebring-plane-crash

I did not witness what led up to the accident. Someone shouted something and I looked over and saw maybe the last turn of what was apparently a spin. My view was blocked by some vehicles so I did not see the actual impact, which is just as well.

I had just videoed a walk around of the entire show with my GoPro mounted on my cap. I had turned it off about 10 minutes prior to the accident. I'm sure someone got it though.
 
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RogerT said:
The plane didn't fly "back heavy" when I flew it. It flew fine. The engine ran fine. Everything worked. They're a high thrust line, draggy plane. Very popular though with them and the Seareay having quite a following around here. They have a good safety record.
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Well.....it depends. Light homebuilt amphibians such as the Searey and the Aventura generally have a high fleet accident rate (number of accidents per year vs. the number of registered examples).

How high? Roughly the same as Lancairs. However, their rate of *fatal* accidents is much lower.

Amphibians have the opportunity to suffer takeoff/landing accidents on water as well as land, and that explains much of the higher accident rate.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
Amphibians have the opportunity to suffer takeoff/landing accidents on water as well as land, and that explains much of the higher accident rate.

Ron Wanttaja
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Good point! I don't know about LSAs, but I have read that a gear down on water is more often than not fatal in certified airplanes. A gear up on land never kills anybody.
 
Could it be that the pilot was trying to impress the peanut gallery with the ability of this aircraft in slow flight and stalled it? Sounds logical rather than "spooky". Low slow flight is always ill advised.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Could it be that the pilot was trying to impress the peanut gallery with the ability of this aircraft in slow flight and stalled it? Sounds logical rather than "spooky". Low slow flight is always ill advised.
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:dunno::dunno::dunno: Wouldn't be the first time a demo pilot crashed by exceeding the envelope, however I have nothing to see it here.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Could it be that the pilot was trying to impress the peanut gallery with the ability of this aircraft in slow flight and stalled it? Sounds logical rather than "spooky". Low slow flight is always ill advised.
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Highly speculative, of course, but…

...not long before that a little yellow Cub or Cub replica had been doing prolonged slipping flight both in level and climbing flight.

But again, to emphasize, I had not observed the accident airplane prior to the spin.
 
FastEddieB said:
Highly speculative, of course, but…

...not long before that a little yellow Cub or Cub replica had been doing prolonged slipping flight both in level and climbing flight.

But again, to emphasize, I had not observed the accident airplane prior to the spin.
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:confused:Why would someone slip in a climb?:confused:
 
The demo pattern was limited to 500 agl with the major restrictions being not to over fly the crowd or infringe on the regular runway airspace to the east. Plenty of room for flybys in an LSA. They also highly emphasize safety in the required Daly flight briefing. I talked with a person who saw the nose pitching up and down in the next to last pass turn. There were also witnesses that thought they saw one elevator fluttering so much on the last pass that the airboss was trying to radio a warning to them. Just second hand info but from pilots I've known for years but also know how unreliable eyewitness accounts can be.
 
maddog52 said:
The demo pattern was limited to 500 agl with the major restrictions being not to over fly the crowd or infringe on the regular runway airspace to the east. Plenty of room for flybys in an LSA. They also highly emphasize safety in the required Daly flight briefing. I talked with a person who saw the nose pitching up and down in the next to last pass turn. There were also witnesses that thought they saw one elevator fluttering so much on the last pass that the airboss was trying to radio a warning to them. Just second hand info but from pilots I've known for years but also know how unreliable eyewitness accounts can be.
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Hmmmmmm...

Any pilot worth his salt would have felt that in the stick and added a bit of airspeed.. IMHO.... Ie... push the nose over and stop showing off...
 
Unsubstantiated rumor, but...

...someone told me that in the runup area, the plane's tail had elevated and then slammed down hard. They had expressed surprise that the pilot had not gotten out to investigate.

Sounds consistent with a mechanical issue.
 
FastEddieB said:
Unsubstantiated rumor, but...

...someone told me that in the runup area, the plane's tail had elevated and then slammed down hard. They had expressed surprise that the pilot had not gotten out to investigate.

Sounds consistent with a mechanical issue.
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I heard the same rumor. Only they had pitched over enough to slam the bow on the ramp. The NTSB report will be interesting.
 
A good deal of speculation going on. We should probably wait for the report to come out. Had a conversation today with a witness,who saw the crash. Has no idea what caused it.
 
I unfortunately saw the entire incident through the crash. It was the first accident I have seen in person and I hope to never see another. I can't tell you if it was a mechanical failure or not. To myself and the other pilot walking with me, it appeared he got pretty slow and turned pretty tightly before pitching over and flying nose first straight into the ground. It was pretty obvious to us as soon as we saw it hit the ground and heard the thud that we had just witnessed at least one person perish.

Carl
 
SportPilotCO said:
I unfortunately saw the entire incident through the crash. It was the first accident I have seen in person and I hope to never see another. I can't tell you if it was a mechanical failure or not. To myself and the other pilot walking with me, it appeared he got pretty slow and turned pretty tightly before pitching over and flying nose first straight into the ground. It was pretty obvious to us as soon as we saw it hit the ground and heard the thud that we had just witnessed at least one person perish.

Carl
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I'm really sorry you had to see that. I once watched a guy spin to his death at Reno after a mid air, so I kind of get what you must be feeling.

Anyhow, so much for trying to convince any of the general public in attendance at this show, or that read the local papers, that flying little airplanes is safe. :mad2:
 
Dav8or said:
Anyhow, so much for trying to convince any of the general public in attendance at this show, or that read the local papers, that flying little airplanes is safe. :mad2:
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It isn't safe, so why lie? By safe I mean the current American standard of safe. Little airanes ain't close to meeting that standard. Besides the fear of flying is nearly universal human trait, like the fear of snakes. Most are born with it, we are exceptional freaks. Heck if you want to sell something sell fun, safe only works as a sales driver if it is something people need to do or use. They don't use safe to sell optional products and activities.
 
Henning said:
2 powerful words.
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You won't catch me in one of those flying kite's without one. :nonod:

Don't get me wrong, I love flying in anything, I'd especially love a ride in an Aircam someday.

But either it or I am going to have a chute.
 
Dav8or said:
Would it work at 400-500 ft?? Might help... ?
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The outcome couldn't be any worse .... :redface:


I'm talking out my wazoo, because I know nothing about them, but it probably has to do with at what attitude you blow it. If you're upside down, and pull it, that could be much different. :dunno:
 
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