Unexpected helo in the pattern

[westslopeco]

(Disclaimer – I am a pre-solo 6 hour Student, if I say anything stupid or wrong, it probably is…)

Ok, so on my last flight with my instructor, we were coming back to BJC to land. We called up Tower, and were given a downwind entry to 29R. No problem, my instructor let me fly into the pattern holding 6500 msl (pattern alt for BJC). As we started downwind we were cleared 2nd to land behind another Cessna. ATC also called out traffic @ 1.5 miles, 11 o’clock. We both looked pretty hard, but didn’t see anything. We started our turn to base, and ATC again called traffic, helicopter @ our Alt, 11 o’clock, ½ mile. By now I am getting nervous as ½ mile is not very much separation, esp as we did not see the Helo yet. Well about ¼ second latter (as we initiated our turn to final) I spot the Helo at 1-2 o’clock at our alt. The CFI took the plane and extended our turn to final to go around the Helo. My question is what was the helo doing at the approach end of the active runway at a Class D airport, at pattern altitude. I do not recall any radio traffic between the Helo and ATC. I do recall some helos requesting a “Ball” takeoff shortly before we turned base. ATC only mentioned that the traffic was a helo on the last call. Can you sling wingers give any insight? Anything any of you would have done different?

I admit it was a little freaky seeing the Helo at about 1000’ and at our altitude as we were turning final. I kind of lost it a bit on the subsequent landing, but at this point I am only doing “assisted” landings, so the CFI pretty much landed the plane. We didn’t really talk about it during the debrief (I really started thinking about it as I drove home).

 

[poadeleted20]

My question is what was the helo doing at the approach end of the active runway at a Class D airport, at pattern altitude.

...and a good question it is. Did you ask either your instructor or the tower (by phone after the flight)? If so, what did they say? If not, I'd recommend going back and asking -- and I'd like to hear their answers, too.

 

[KennyFlys]

That would tick me off to see a helo in my expected flight path as cleared. I gather the helo either was not talking or they were on a different frequency than you were. Either way, there's something not right here.

 

[jwriteclub]

Some hot shot helo pilot needs to have a blanket party.

The regs state that helos aren't supposed to interfere with the flow of fixed wing traffic.

~ Christopher

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Some hot shot helo pilot needs to have a blanket party.

The regs state that helos aren't supposed to interfere with the flow of fixed wing traffic.

~ Christopher

Better go back and read 91.126. It refers ONLY to direction of turns and then ONLY in Class G airspace. It has no application at a field with an operating control tower.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and

(2) Each pilot of a helicopter or a powered parachute must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

I agree with Ron. Without talking to the tower, there's no way for you to know that the helo pilot did something wrong. There are a number of legitimate reasons to be where he was -- setting up for a practice autorotation might put you there and as might an approved transition of the airspace.

Bear in mind also that most of us normally fly at around 1000 AGL so there's nothing unusual about a transition at that altitude so long as the tower doesn't disapprove it.

See my article at http://bobanddusty.com/aviation/chopper101.html for (hopefully) some insight as to why we do what.

 

[Skip Miller]

That would tick me off to see a helo in my expected flight path as cleared.

Just a reminder: In D-space VFR, you are cleared to take off, cleared to land and at all other times you are on your own. The Controller does not provide separation.

Either way, there's something not right here.

I agree. Follow Captain Ron's advice: call the tower and ask for an explanation.

-Skip

 

[nosehair]

ATC also called out traffic @ 1.5 miles, 11 o’clock. We both looked pretty hard, but didn’t see anything. We started our turn to base, and ATC again called traffic, helicopter @ our Alt, 11 o’clock, ½ mile. By now I am getting nervous as ½ mile is not very much separation, esp as we did not see the Helo yet. Well about ¼ second latter (as we initiated our turn to final) I spot the Helo at 1-2 o’clock at our alt. The CFI took the plane and extended our turn to final to go around the Helo. My question is what was the helo doing at the approach end of the active runway at a Class D airport, at pattern altitude. I do not recall any radio traffic between the Helo and ATC. I do recall some helos requesting a “Ball” takeoff shortly before we turned base. ATC only mentioned that the traffic was a helo on the last call. Can you sling wingers give any insight? Anything any of you would have done different?

You are beginning to experience the beginning of learning to be a pilot. In other words, you are the driver and ATC is only a traffic director. He/She is not the driver, and cannot see what you can see and make decisions upon. It was your instructor's job to see and avoid the helicopter. It will become your job when you solo. The tower was giving traffic information but the tower cannot say to you how to avoid the traffic. Well, sometimes they can, and do, but it is not the tower's responsibility or possibility in many cases. It is always up to the pilot, in visual conditions, to avoid any and all traffic. Stay situationally alet and aware and you will do all right.

Welcome to the Club!

 

[Everskyward]

I can't really say what happened here, but it seems like the tower gave you traffic at 11 o'clock which could have moved to 1 o'clock by the time you saw it. There is a lot of helicopter traffic at KBJC because there is a good-sized training facility there. I'm guessing that the "Ball" departure may have something to do with departing in the direction of the Ball Aerospace headquarters which is east of the airport, somewhat under the right downwind for 29R. There are sometimes agreements between the tower and local helicopter operators to have these named departure and arrival paths. I'm just guessing about the "Ball" name but it seems logical to me.

Hope you are enjoying your lessons!

 

[gkainz]

Ya don't suppose it's the Ball departure because every Ball flight out of KBJC heads east?

 

[pilotmattk]

That would freak me out too, however, it sounds like you're learing to keep your head on a swivel no matter what airspace you're in. That seems to be the key to staying alive much of the time.

There is 1 helo based at my home field that I know of and it's quite active (a medical helo). We're uncontrolled so he almost always slips in from the dead side of the pattern, makes a real tight pattern and lands in the grass next to the taxiway. He's always on the radio and I always see him, nowhere close to fixed wing traffic.