ugh, I'm driving myself nutz

eman1200

eman1200

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Bro do you even lift
I took my discovery flight, now I just wanna start flying already. I feel like I missed this past weekend, which looked like a perfect weekend to fly. My dilema is this:

1) local airport (JQF), literally around the corner from me, towered, cessnas, expensive.
2) alternate airport (8A6) 18 miles away, untowered, pipers, lower cost.

I know some of you will just say pick one and get started, but it's bugging me, I just don't know what to do. Cost is a big concern, but let me clarify. I'm prepared to pay for training, I'm not a starving college kid anymore. But there has to be a way to reduce expenses, and without even finding "tricky ways" to do this, choice #2 is just cheaper off the bat, just much less convenient.

why is this so difficult, and what am I missing, besides 'just do it'?

Thanks for listening to my rant.
 
I would pick a number of hours that you guess it might take to complete training. Maybe 60 and multiply that times the difference in hourly costs. Now you have a number that you can decide if it is worth paying the difference for. Also ask yourself what your time is worth. The answer may be very different for a college student or a retired guy vs a business owner, doctor, lawyer, etc.

Jim
 
18 miles is nothing. Reduce costs by flying from a non towered airport.

You need to make decisions when flying. This is one of them. ;)
 
Airport number 2 without a doubt.
The extra 15 minutes spent driving to and from the airport is great alone time to get focused on flying. Non towered field will save you money as well.
 
Topper said:
......Also ask yourself what your time is worth. The answer may be very different for a college student or a retired guy vs a business owner, doctor, lawyer, etc.

Jim
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Thanks. The convenience factor is actually worth a lot to me. I work from home quite a bit, and what I'm hoping I can do is be at the local airport at, say 7:45 or so, then I'm thinking about an hour and a half lesson between briefing and flight time, then I can be home and online for work by 9:30. of course, that means a CFI has to be available and actually at the airport that early.

Geico266 said:
18 miles is nothing. Reduce costs by flying from a non towered airport.

You need to make decisions when flying. This is one of them.
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yup, I don't disagree. but based on my goal above (early morning weekday training) the 18 miles during rush hour becomes a factor to consider. not a deal breaker, but just not as convenient.
 
Mornings are a great time to train. Smooth air, typically less traffic (may not be the case at the towered field). May need to factor a little addition cost that I did not mention. You will spend more time at the towered airport with the engine running waiting to get in the air.

On the plus side you will get very comfortable with the radio and controlled fields. I think a lot of pilots that train at uncontrolled fields avoid towered fields because they lack the experience.

Jim
 
I had the same issue when I was looking where I wanted to do my flight training. I created a spreadsheet with schools/clubs that I can afford and started adding up the costs including gas and toll to get there. After I did that I narrowed down my schools/clubs and started asking former students about CFI's, how long training took, and other costs. I ended up going to the furthest airport which included a $5.00 toll. I probably saved a few thousand dollars even though it was the furthest. :)
 
I drove 60 miles for the first 45 hours of my flight training.
 
I'd look at two things. First, what is the cost difference (is it enough to matter?) and also is the cost difference enough to make up for the time lost during the drive. Secondly, what do you want to be flying? If you like one aircraft more than another, then that should also play into the decision. I personally went the 172 route since I knew locally there are far more 172's available than any other aircraft type.

Either way, make sure you get enough time at non-towered fields if you go with the controlled airport. I had to take a couple lessons elsewhere and also made sure all of my solo XC time was to non-towered airports to make sure that aspect of my training wasn't missed. Needless to say, if you end up at a non-towered field, make sure you get a good amount of time at a towered airport as well.
 
I agree look at the cost differences with commute and such. I did an excel chart for mine. I had already started training and realized that there was a cheaper flight school at another airport off the train as well but with the commute it wasn't that big of a price difference and it would have added another 30 minutes to my already 1.5 hour commute to the airport so it wasn't worth it to me.

Also check with whatever school you go with how they do their lessons, I know for mine they are scheduled in 2 hour blocks and always start at the top of the hour on an even hour (ie 12, 2, 4 etc) so that may be a factor for you as well, also when the first lesson starts. Mine doesn't start until 8am but will change for the summer to 6am.
 
One other thought not mentioned. Interviw the different schools at the two airports. You may find that one school is a better fit for you, and it may turn out that the money and travel issues become moot.

Also, sometimes what cheaper in the short run is more expensive in the long run.
 
If you can make the time factors work for the school 18 miles away, do yourself a favor and strongly consider going there. Trust me when I say you need the time after flying and before starting work to debrief in your head, clear your mind and relax a bit. You'll be glad if you don't compress too much into your early morning back to back. Your training time will be that much more effective and worthwhile, and your work time will probably also go better.

So, if you think you're making yourself crazy right now thinking about this, well... just wait until you schedule yourself into a stress-packed corner. Be sure you allow yourself the room and time you need, else you'll be spending a lot of money to make yourself crazy.
 
Concord has over 60,000 operations a year. That's on the busy side for a class D airport. I can envision you wasting quite a bit of time and money training there.
 
timwinters said:
Concord has over 60,000 operations a year. That's on the busy side for a class D airport. I can envision you wasting quite a bit of time and money training there.
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This is a great point! Nothing like watching the Hobbs meter spin as you wait in sequence for takeoff, or continually doing 360's in the pattern. A neighboring airport has that problem by me and those pilots fly to the airport I fly out of to practice pattern work. It's about a 15 minute flight each way so those students are wasting 30 minutes a lesson just to avoid crowded conditions. That adds up fast.

To the OP, go where you will get the best training and bang for your buck. You can't underestimate the quality of training. When all is said and done, I'd imagine you'd want to pay for quality training.
 
jspilot said:
To the OP, go where you will get the best training and bang for your buck. You can't underestimate the quality of training. When all is said and done, I'd imagine you'd want to pay for quality training.
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Thanks. So far its young guys at JQF and older guys at 8A6. Took my disco flight at JQF and have been hanging around talking to people at 8A6, so far they seem pretty equal. I like the 'experienced' factor, but I'm a little worried about how an older southern personality would mix with my jersey upbringing, but I do hear good things about 8A6's cfi's, and I've been talking to one who's been extremely helpful. Ugh, this is killing me.

I like the idea of training at a towered ap, as I want to be prepared for flying into other busy ap's, and not get exposed to that 'on the fly' so to speak. But good points about taxiing and pattern work eating into training time at JQF.
 
Or I had the dreaded $60 cab ride.
One thing to consider... young CFIs are looking for another job, probably in the airlines. Old timers normally want to teach.
 
ebykowsky said:
Or I had the dreaded $60 cab ride.
One thing to consider... young CFIs are looking for another job, probably in the airlines. Old timers normally want to teach.
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in my research I read to beware of this. the cfi I took my disco ride actually said that's what he was doing, building hours. I'm not exactly sure WHY this is such a horrible thing, but it is something I'm aware of.
 
ebykowsky said:
Or I had the dreaded $60 cab ride.
One thing to consider... young CFIs are looking for another job, probably in the airlines. Old timers normally want to teach.
Click to expand...

^that^

There are exceptions to every rule but---as a rule---give me someone in his/her 60s or 70s over someone under 30 any day...especially if that old fart has tens of thousands of hours in the book and ESPECIALLY if they're ex-military.

There's no substitute for life experiences and the retired full bird colonel that taught me to fly had many of them that he shared and taught. Some of which saved my ass when I had an engine failure.

As long as those older pipers are well maintained you'll probably learn a lot more about flying than you will with young studs and new planes. You can learn about a new plane's toys later.

Regarding airports and traffic. There are many airports in the vicinity of both of your options so you can quickly fly to a variety of airfield environments from either.

If nobody's said it already...go talk to the folks at both schools. Also, ask for a list of current students and talk to them.
 
eman1200 said:
in my research I read to beware of this. the cfi I took my disco ride actually said that's what he was doing, building hours. I'm not exactly sure WHY this is such a horrible thing, but it is something I'm aware of.
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Because they generally don't really care about instructing, and as soon as they get a "real" paying job, they bolt immediately. The only thing about some old time instructors, sometimes they forget what it's like to be new to flying.
 
If the CFI is looking to build hours but is teaching you who cares what he ultimate goal is, unless he leaves you midstream to take that airline job, and now you are are your own to find a new CFI. However, some old CFI's are so set in their ways that learning from them may be difficult as well.

Personally, I think it is more important to find a CFI you can learn from, than to worry if they are old or young, or what their life goals are.
 
douglas393 said:
If the CFI is looking to build hours but is teaching you who cares what he ultimate goal is, unless he leaves you midstream to take that airline job, and now you are are your own to find a new CFI. However, some old CFI's are so set in their ways that learning from them may be difficult as well.

Personally, I think it is more important to find a CFI you can learn from, than to worry if they are old or young, or what their life goals are.
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I agree with this, hence the difficult decision :)
 
What does the place at JQF charge for flight time and instruction?

Keep in mind you will likely be soloing after 15 hours or so and you can do your solo practice during the weekday early AM's without the instructor present. Then fly w instructor on weekends. This is what I did, my home airport is 30 miles away.

Some of the best flying I can remember is the crack of dawn weekday student solo flights :)
 
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if 18 miles is "too far," maybe you don't really want to fly that bad.
 
18 miles can easily be a 35...45 minute drive during rush hour in some metro areas and he said he'd likely be driving during the morning rush. I can definitely see how this could be enough of a PITA to take into consideration.

Although it looks like he may be driving around a loop and not in the direction of the rush. But I certainly don't claim to know Charlotte's traffic patterns.
 
I drove 66 miles each way to my airport. I got less expensive rentals, less expensive and much better instructors, new airplanes, the ability to go Light Sport first (please not this argument again), and the incredible views of the Chesapeake Bay. I did have to deal with half of the beltway, and as those of you who know DC will know, that is torture. But it was totally worth it.
 
I picked an airport 20ish miles away instead of one 10 miles or less away. They are both equally busy class D's but the one farther away had a better flight school, an all around nicer airport and I just liked it more. I now keep my airplane at the farther airport because I know everyone and like everyone down there including the controllers.

PS my current CFI is "building time" and my last CFI was instructing as his full time "retirement" job. I'm enjoying my time building CFI much more, because he actually loves to fly and HE wants to be a better pilot along with making me a better pilot. Him being younger he also lets me fly "my way" more, rather than exactly like he does. Granted as a PPL student you won't develop your own way just yet, but you wil some day.
 
My airport is 40 miles away. I could have picked a few closer, but the hangar was cheaper, my flight school is awesome, and the people on the field are great. Let that be your be deciding factors.
 
eman1200 said:
Thanks. So far its young guys at JQF and older guys at 8A6. Took my disco flight at JQF and have been hanging around talking to people at 8A6, so far they seem pretty equal. I like the 'experienced' factor, but I'm a little worried about how an older southern personality would mix with my jersey upbringing, but I do hear good things about 8A6's cfi's, and I've been talking to one who's been extremely helpful. Ugh, this is killing me.

I like the idea of training at a towered ap, as I want to be prepared for flying into other busy ap's, and not get exposed to that 'on the fly' so to speak. But good points about taxiing and pattern work eating into training time at JQF.
Click to expand...

Training at a towered airport has its perks. If it is a busy airport you will have more experience and not be caught off guard by any ATC instructions as you'll likely encounter most possible situations with your CFI.

Just so you know, part of your training will require you to fly to a towered field multiple times. You will get the experience either way but obviously training at a towered airport gives you more. Either way, enjoy your training and flying! It's an amazing experience!
 
douglas393 said:
If the CFI is looking to build hours but is teaching you who cares what he ultimate goal is, unless he leaves you midstream to take that airline job, and now you are are your own to find a new CFI. However, some old CFI's are so set in their ways that learning from them may be difficult as well.

Personally, I think it is more important to find a CFI you can learn from, than to worry if they are old or young, or what their life goals are.
Click to expand...

I did half my hours with a 24 year old CFI and half my hours with a 70 year old CFI. I learned better from the 24 year old because he was younger and "fresher".
 
I drive 40+ miles each way for my flight lessons because its almost 100 less per lesson to do it locally. Just saying ;)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2
 
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