Two pilot training

deonb

deonb

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deonb
My wife and I do everything together. So it shouldn't have been a surprise to me that when I told her: "Honey, I want to get a PPL!", her response was: "Great! When do we start?"

I expect that after training, we will always be flying together as PIC + SIC, swapping roles on each flight. (Yes, I'm aware that SIC isn't an official role on a single pilot rated plane). With that framework in mind, what is the best way to move forward? Specific things I'm considering:

a) Should we go to the same CFI, or two different CFI's (or even schools & airplane types)? i.e. Is it better for 2 pilots in a cockpit to have identical training and be completely in sync, or have distinct training and be more diverse?

b) Is there any way to structure insurance to take into account the two-pilot setup? We can realistically spend ~250hrs total per year flying between the 2 of us.

That would mean 125hrs PIC and 125hrs (unofficial) SIC each if we keep things symmetrical. I would imagine that 2 pilots @ 125hrs/year PIC + 125hrs/year SIC is close to or exceeding the safety of 1 pilot @ 250hrs/year PIC. However, does insurance companies see it that way? It would really suck if we have to pay at 2x the rate of 1 pilot @ 125hrs/year. Even if insurance doesn't count unofficial SIC time do they at least credit the fact that there's 2 qualified and current pilots on board for every flight?

c) Medium-term goal is to go shopping for a DA-42 after ~250hrs PIC each (500 hrs total). Are we kidding ourselves into thinking that this is enough for that twin? And that flying at a rate of 125hrs PIC each and let's say 25hrs SIM each per year will allow us to remain reasonably current for the twin?

Again, consider the 2-pilot setup. Would you rather fly in the back with 2 pilots at 250hrs/each, or 1 pilot at 500 hours? What about when that stretches later to 2 pilots at 1000 hrs each vs. 1 pilot at 2000 hours?
 
You might want to try another forum. Sorry, everyone one here flies to get away from their wives. :)
 
deonb said:
My wife and I do everything together. So it shouldn't have been a surprise to me that when I told her: "Honey, I want to get a PPL!", her response was: "Great! When do we start?"

I expect that after training, we will always be flying together as PIC + SIC, swapping roles on each flight. (Yes, I'm aware that SIC isn't an official role on a single pilot rated plane). With that framework in mind, what is the best way to move forward? Specific things I'm considering:

a) Should we go to the same CFI, or two different CFI's (or even schools & airplane types)? i.e. Is it better for 2 pilots in a cockpit to have identical training and be completely in sync, or have distinct training and be more diverse?

b) Is there any way to structure insurance to take into account the two-pilot setup? We can realistically spend ~250hrs total per year flying between the 2 of us.

That would mean 125hrs PIC and 125hrs (unofficial) SIC each if we keep things symmetrical. I would imagine that 2 pilots @ 125hrs/year PIC + 125hrs/year SIC is close to or exceeding the safety of 1 pilot @ 250hrs/year PIC. However, does insurance companies see it that way? It would really suck if we have to pay at 2x the rate of 1 pilot @ 125hrs/year. Even if insurance doesn't count unofficial SIC time do they at least credit the fact that there's 2 qualified and current pilots on board for every flight?

c) Medium-term goal is to go shopping for a DA-42 after ~250hrs PIC each (500 hrs total). Are we kidding ourselves into thinking that this is enough for that twin? And that flying at a rate of 125hrs PIC each and let's say 25hrs SIM each per year will allow us to remain reasonably current for the twin?

Again, consider the 2-pilot setup. Would you rather fly in the back with 2 pilots at 250hrs/each, or 1 pilot at 500 hours? What about when that stretches later to 2 pilots at 1000 hrs each vs. 1 pilot at 2000 hours?
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a) same instructor is fine, if scheduling can make it work. Having the spouse ride in the back during lessons can be educational, although even the toughest can get a little sick riding in the back during stalls.

b) the effect of splitting time on your overall insurance costs will likely be negegible. The insurance company won't care about "sic" time for either of you as it is not real time. There is a way to both log PIC time with the flying pilot manipulating the controls wearing a view limiting device and the other acting as pilot in command and as safety pilot. Search for "safety pilot" and there are a billion threads on this.

c)certainly possible. Just requires training and money. Insurance rates will be high for the first few years as you accumulate multi time but will eventually come down. The two factors in insurance costs are hull value and experience. Getting your instrument ratings will also be helpful from a cost and practicality standpoint.
 
250 hrs each would be plenty for the twin,have you considered,who gets the plane if your going in separate directions occasionally? Two pilots can stenghten a marriage or break one ,you have to answer that question.
 
I say go for it! We have two brothers learning with us now, one backseats and observes while the other is flying. Same airplane, same lesson, seems to be working really well. If a twin Diamond is your goal, see if you can find a DA40 available for you guys to train in. Best of luck!
 
Keep in mind that you'll probably learn at different paces...feel free to let that happen.
 
deonb said:
.............Again, consider the 2-pilot setup. Would you rather fly in the back with 2 pilots at 250hrs/each, or 1 pilot at 500 hours? What about when that stretches later to 2 pilots at 1000 hrs each vs. 1 pilot at 2000 hours?
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Forget the numbers. Do they work together as a team? Do they know their roles and duties on this flight? You know your marriage. Are both of you going to be fine with it if it turns out you find that one of you has a little more natural talent and is the "better stick."
 
I have seen couples train together and father and daughters train together. Worked out great because the other was in the back learning from the others mistakes and was a great way for them to spend time together and accomplish something at the same time. As far as time is concerned, the SIC won't matter since the DA42 doesn't require 2 pilots, it wouldn't be SIC time anyway.
 
deonb said:
My wife and I do everything together. So it shouldn't have been a surprise to me that when I told her: "Honey, I want to get a PPL!", her response was: "Great! When do we start?"
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That is awesome! Though my sweet lady does fly with me, I cannot even get her to touch the controls. Of course, that is okay. If she knew that flying really isn't all that difficult, she wouldn't think that I am as great as she thinks I am.
 
A friend of mine, his dad could not get a medical due to his heart problems. So he made his wife get the medical, they both did training together with the same instructor. She got the certificate while he did everything except solo flights.

Afterwards, he flew, she navigated and communicated. Then she got her instrument ticket.... well, she had to fly left seat when it was IFR while he navigated and communicated. (this was before GPS)

It actually worked out very well for them. After I became an instructor, she needed a BFR. I made both of them fly separately, and I checked them flying together. I had no problem with their arrangement.

I would think training with the same instructor would work good, even one riding in the back seat observing the other. Both learn the same procedures and learn from each others mistakes, so when you two are flying together there won't be any surprising differences.

Only problem is..... who will solo first..????
 
Zeldman said:
Only problem is..... who will solo first..????
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On my last student pair, the woman soloed first by 20 minutes. That was just by chance, as they alternated who was the first to fly each day. At the end of the session, they were both in the pattern solo.
 
My Mom learned to fly shortly after my Dad got his PPL. He bought her a Cherokee and he had a Twin Comanche. They both had the same instructor and she was also multi rated. Don
 
Sounds like everybody is in favor of training together with the same CFI. Sold!

Arbiter419 said:
If a twin Diamond is your goal, see if you can find a DA40 available for you guys to train in. Best of luck!
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That is a great idea. Thanks! I found a flight school in the area that train on both a DA40 and DA42. (Galvin Flying).

Kind'a a dumb question though... How do I tell if a flight school and CFI is any good?

Galvin is certainly much more expensive than everybody else in the area, but not sure how reliable an indicator that is.

It's mindboggling to think that getting our licenses and sufficient experience will cost more than a Tesla... on the other hand it's less than the cost of a charter. So all things in perspective. Just want to make sure we get our money's worth though.
 
I can see doing ground training and studying together, but personally I think flight training together would be a distraction. Plus having someone in the back is likely to take the W&B out of utility category, negating stalls.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I can see doing ground training and studying together, but personally I think flight training together would be a distraction. Plus having someone in the back is likely to take the W&B out of utility category, negating stalls.
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You don't need to be in the utility category to do stalls. Just spins which isn't usually part of PPL training anyway.
 
deonb said:
Kind'a a dumb question though... How do I tell if a flight school and CFI is any good?
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Ask questions of your CFI like "What's your pass rate?" and "How many applicants have you signed off?" Gold Seal is a good quality indicator. On top of those things, evaluate how you fit with the CFI.


It's mindboggling to think that getting our licenses and sufficient experience will cost more than a Tesla... on the other hand it's less than the cost of a charter. So all things in perspective. Just want to make sure we get our money's worth though.
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A Tesla won't change you as a person. Being a pilot will.
 
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