Turned Down money and Multi Time yesterday

ntbjounin

ntbjounin

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jounin
So yesterday I went out to DFW to pick up the owner of a new Apache. We drove to a local airport, and viewed the plane he was paying me to fly to New Jersey. (my favorite place right?... hahaha)

So I'm looking the plane over... It seems to have been a ramp queen for a few years. Rust in all the fuel caps, and rust flaking into at least 2 of the tanks. Dead battery (minor issue)... However there was also rust on the right starter which was also not disengaging. So when you hand turned the right prop, it clicked and didnt move smoothly. The Pilot seat was not even installed (also a minor problem... installing it is easy enough..) Also a large amount of paint was flaking off the bottom of the fuselage. So much so, that it would have dramatically affected our performance. Large amounts of drag hanging down.

Anyway.... I told the guy, I'm sorry, you're not gonna like hearing this, but I cant fly this airplane. I don't feel comfortable with the condition it's in. He didn't really sound all that shocked. He was pretty upset, but not with me specifically. I don't think he had a complete idea of what he was getting.

Anyway... I"m ****ed too... Not only did I miss out on about 12 hrs of multi time, and $350/day... But I also had to turn down a trip in the KingAir because I had already committed to this other guy.
 
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ntbjounin said:
So yesterday I went out to DFW to pick up the owner of a new Apache. We drove to a local airport, and viewed the plane he was paying me to fly to New Jersey. (my favorite place right?... hahaha)

So I'm looking the plane over... It seems to have been a ramp queen for a few years. Rust in all the fuel caps, and rust flaking into at least 2 of the tanks. Dead battery (minor issue)... However there was also rust on the right starter which was also not disengaging. So when you hand turned the right prop, it clicked and didnt move smoothly. The Pilot seat was not even installed (also a minor problem... installing it is easy enough..) Also a large amount of paint was flaking off the bottom of the fuselage. So much so, that it would have dramatically affected our performance. Large amounts of drag hanging down.

Anyway.... I told the guy, I'm sorry, you're not gonna like hearing this, but I cant fly this airplane. I don't feel comfortable with the condition it's in. He didn't really sound all that shocked. He was pretty upset, but not with me specifically. I don't think he had a complete idea of what he was getting.

Anyway... I"m ****ed too... Not only did I miss out on about 12 hrs of multi time, and $350/day... But I also had to turn down a trip in the KingAir because I had already committed to this other guy.
Click to expand...

Doesn't sound like the plane was anywhere near airworthy, good call. Was it even "in annual"?
 
didnt know that you were on this forum too! :)

I make sure that I have the answers to a few questions BEFORE I head out to pick up an airplane. The two that are most commonly NOT KNOWN BY THE BUYER (oddly enough) I bolded in RED:

4) Most recent dates of the following inspections: Annual, Pitot-Static, Altimeter, ELT
5) Engine time since Major Overhaul.
Then I will ask for a few pictures of the aircraft.

AND EVEN THEN.. things happen!

Great example is yesterday and today. I was hired to move a Cessna 175 from Florida to Canada. The guy answered all my questions, sent me a photo..

I get to Orlando and lo and behold, there is no Prop on the airplane!!! Apparently, the Annual was not completed as the owner promised, the plane is IN annual and is waiting for the prop to return from the shop. Hopefully it will arrive this morning and I can get going this evening but who knows?

meanwhile I got a paid day in my hotel in orlando. Exactly the quiet time I needed to study for my ATP written and my Interview with Colgan next week!
 
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Probably not worth it for...

Fistful_Macaroni.jpg
 
You made a good call but its not the last chance you will have to fly a plane and make dough. Take pride that you enforced your standards.
 
It doesn't sound like there was anything that some WD-40 and duct tape wouldn't have fixed. I kid.
It's difficult to make that call, especially with your client right there... sounds like you really did the right thing.
Kudos
 
It doesn't surprise me that a cheap, old Apache ended up being a ramp queen and unairworthy. It is too bad, though, especially since you had to turn down another trip.

Fortunately there will be more opportunities. :)
 
If the plane was advertised to you as airworthy, then I think it's perfectly fair to charge the customer for the time you wasted coming out to inspect it. Certainly not as good as King Air time, but better than a kick in the pants. Now, if you didn't ask about airworthiness and he didn't tell you beforehand, then probably not something you can do, and I'll bet you will send out a questionnaire beforehand link Ben Z. does next time you're contacted for a flight!
 
Without seeing the plane, I'd have to agree that you made the right call and it is a shame that those great planes are sometimes left to rot. The clicking starter was probably a stuck Bendix caused by the dead battery, no big deal. The paint? probably not a problem. The rust though is a red flag, it might be nothing or the structure could be rotted out. Apaches have a steel tube structure for the cabin/nose/inboard wing with sheet metal covering. Rust in the tubing can be an issue same as on a Cub or anything else... Sounds like a good project to take the wings off of and truck it home, then fully restore. I have spent the last couple years bringing an Apache 235 back from the brink and finally have a good, reliable, capable airplane. They are pretty simple as twins go...
 
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when you say the clicking starter... let me explain that it was a rusty starter that would not disengage from the prop. the only clicking was when i turned it through by hand. the rust was all over the starter and the gear on the prop the starter moves (i forget what its called)... the battery was so dead, when i turned it on, nothing at all happened. not even the fuel gauges. It appeared to be connected from all i could see, but then again there's only so much i can see..
 
Allen:

You're a good guy, and I like you best when you're breathing.

Good call.
 
This is AVIATION.....and it is dog eat dog. Never turn down a King Air trip!

Just be polite and tell the Apache owner a King Air trip came up and find him another pilot. It's not like there is a shortage or something.
 
kgruber said:
This is AVIATION.....and it is dog eat dog. Never turn down a King Air trip!

Just be polite and tell the Apache owner a King Air trip came up and find him another pilot. It's not like there is a shortage or something.
Click to expand...

I would tell the Apache owner that the Apache is a POS and he should find another sucker.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Actually, in Lycoming world we call them "Starter ring gear supports."

So, like you said. Flywheel. ;)
Click to expand...

Ah, man, I thought you'd at least use a part number!

Cool, thanks for the "technically correct term". It does help when you're calling for parts!
 
kgruber said:
This is AVIATION.....and it is dog eat dog. Never turn down a King Air trip!

Just be polite and tell the Apache owner a King Air trip came up and find him another pilot. It's not like there is a shortage or something.
Click to expand...

that's not something i can do. if i commit to someone, I'm not gonna just bail on them at the last minute. Yes I much prefer kingair to apache, but that's just not very professional.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Ah, man, I thought you'd at least use a part number!
Click to expand...

That would be difficult, because there are many different part numbers. You'd be surprised how many different ones there are. :)
 
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