TSA and Honeymoons

Dunno Texas law, but if it says that a gun is only loaded when there's a round up the spout, then he's got a pretty good defense. Obviously nobody told him what the TSA considers to be loaded and unloaded, and he was trying to be compliant.


Ignorance of the law is no defense. The following is on a couple thousand pages of search results:

The firearm must be unloaded.
As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 - "A loaded firearm means a firearm that has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm."

I more amazed at what passes for CCW training in most states. Even more amazing is the mass ignorance of carry laws in the issuing state, and reciprocity states (if they even know what reciprocity is or where to look) surrounding duty to notify, printing, prohibited areas, vehicle concealment, etc.

In other words, there are some truly STUPID uneducated people carrying weapons. Open carry is even worse.


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That's like saying your car won't stop if the gas tank is empty, so long as there's a jerry can in the trunk that has gas.

If you don't have one in the chamber and remember to rack the slide then the gun is indeed loaded. Some do carry that way. I don't. There's one in the tube ready to launch.
 
Ignorance of the law is no defense. The following is on a couple thousand pages of search results:

And it is NOT the law in Colorado, where he apparently learned how to handle guns. The Feds have four more words in theirs.

I'd be willing to bet that you don't know the difference between every law in your state and in Federal laws.

Open carry is even worse.

Yep, sure are a lot of stupid cops out there.
 
Steingar:

I carry a gun routinely, because I believe that I may need it.

You don't carry a gun, because you don't believe that you might need it.

I can be wrong every day for the next 40 years.

You can only be wrong ONCE.

+1!

Well said.:yes:
 
Nah...just a lot of stupid "look at my big, shiny gun" types......

And the peanut gallery chimes in again. Not knowing that one of the "C"s in CC means -- wait for it, concealed! muuuuaahhhaaahahaaaaaa ;)
 
Yeah, like I said, COPS.

Oh, wait, you're talking about the people who don't want to wear a coat when it's 90 degrees out . . ? Yeah, how stupid is THAT???


More ignorance. You really think the only way to conceal something is a coat?

Why do you wear pants? Just grab a trench coat on your way out the door and you're all good.

(Shaking head at silliness...)
 
Okay, training time... You think you need a coat to conceal this?

yhe8urav.jpg


This is the "mighty" (not so "shiny") Ruger LCP. A very popular pocket pistol.

Those are drink coasters in the background and my hand is lying on the table.

I'm currently storing it for someone else. I've shot it, Karen has shot it. Personally I think it shoots like ****. She also dislikes it. Trigger is awful, ergonomics are worse. But I can keep it within 4" of target at 7 yards. Barely. Measure 4" from the center of your chest. It'll hit that.

For another perspective, here it is in my dominant hand (right) in a proper finger-off-the-trigger one-handed grip. Well, more like two finger grip. I have pretty big paws and longish fingers and you can see the problem for me with this particular firearm -- my index finger can almost reach past the end of the barrel in a normal grip.

yruqa2u9.jpg


It fires a .380 ACP cartridge, which means the bullet itself is roughly the same size as a 9mm with a much shorter casing, meaning less gunpowder charge and a lot less bang. The round is probably considered slightly underpowered for personal defense use. Police officers I've discussed .380 ACP with have said they've seen it be ineffective against biker leathers, when fired at the wrong angle, amazingly enough.

But this isn't a post about gun likes and dislikes, it's an educational post in reply to the inane babbling about coats, since generally, folks saying such things have not a sIngle CLUE about firearms.

That said, I'm not going to volunteer to take a round from it. You can if you like.

So there ya go. No coat required. Thousands of people conceal that thing every day. In Condition 3, you could shove it down your jockey shorts if you're so inclined. I'm not. Pistols live in holsters or cases at my house.

For the gun-phobic: It's back in the safe. You can come back out now. It won't harm you.

You might notice that thing is about as far away from "shiny pistol syndrome" as something can get. That thing isn't just ugly, it's fugly.

In a defensive scenario, you're pretty unlikely to even be able to use it effectively much more than an arm's or two's length away without practice. Point shooting it in a defensive scenario though, would be no problem at all.

One former cop described the .380 ACP pistols to me this way: "The 380 is the pistol in your back pocket for when the jerk is on top of you and either is trying to get your duty pistol away from you or just did. You yank it out of your back pocket, put it to his head, and pull the trigger. It always works when used that way."

Tough job being a cop. No thanks. But that's his professional opinion of it, anyway.

Meanwhile, one of my instructors has carried a Glock 19 daily, for over 20 years. He doesn't wear coats unless it's cold out, and he's usually in shorts and a polo shirt most of the summer. If you don't know how or look for it, you'd never know he was carrying.

There's a LOT of pistols between the Ruger LCP and a Glock 19, size-wise. No coat needed. Definitely.

There's your dose of reality for the day. Hope it shows the reality vs the complete misconception about what's out there and can be concealed.

If you think all pistols are the stupid stuff in the movies, or on TV, you're just spewing bad information. Sure the Smith and Wesson 939 looks pretty and shiny for the cameras, but it's not what folks are carrying around for self defense, typically.

Even just watching a re-run of "Criminal Minds" last night while I was doing other stuff, I laughed out loud at one of the characters and what they think the FBI would let him carry on the job. I'll leave it to to figure out which character and which firearm isn't FBI issue, and doesn't fire a round the FBI would normally carry. Not too many FBI folk will be carrying something they can't reload from their buddy's belt if he goes down in a firefight. That'd be a very dumb way to die.
 
More ignorance. You really think the only way to conceal something is a coat?

Nope, but it's about the only way to conceal my Tanfoglio 10mm.

My rule is simple. If I choose to carry, I carry. If the weather calls for a coat, my pistol is concealed. If the weather calls for a T-shirt, my pistol is carried openly.

One thing which rarely affects my decision is worrying that someone will have a hissy fit over seeing the pistol.
 
Not too many FBI folk will be carrying something they can't reload from their buddy's belt if he goes down in a firefight. That'd be a very dumb way to die.

Actually, the Feebies use several different pistols and calibers, the standard being the .40 Short & Weak, but the full-house 10mm Auto is still approved and popular.

Pocket pistols have their uses, but I hold the doctrine that there is only one justification for shooting another human being (outside of time of war), and that is if he or she is doing something to bad that it must be STOPPED IMMEDIATELY, even if they die when they are stopped.

That means that using a .380 or other subcaliber pistol is only justifiable if you can't have the whole gun. The whole gun is significantly harder to conceal.
 
Have you tried to buy a fully automatic weapon? They were outlawed many years ago, but the anti-gunners want you to think you can buy a machine gun at Wally World.

Next, please define "assault weapon". That's the most abused term in the lexicon of the gun banners. I guess a hammer could be classed as such.

You can buy a fully automatic weapon anytime you want. You can't get it at Walmart fully automatic, you have to walk a few blocks down the street to the guy who will "fix" it for you.
 
And it is NOT the law in Colorado, where he apparently learned how to handle guns. ...

He was from Texas but that was beside the point. I'm the guy that pasted the bit of Colorado law to show that there are different definitions of "loaded" written in law to defuse an "idiotic" projection of differences of semantics.

[That kind of sounds funny - I'm not stating that the projection was idiotic but that one participant had called another's definition idiotic even though both definitions were true in a context.]

But, it is my understanding, not knowing the law pertaining to a particular situation or confusing that law with another for a different situation doesn't really buy you court case points. It might in a legislative context but bringing things up there seems to me to generally move things to the more restrictive.

[This is not legal advice. I do not practice law. I am not an attorney.]

... I more amazed at what passes for CCW training in most states. ...

Interesting. You are pro-regulate then. That's fine; what do you see as necessary in the law?

Even more amazing is the mass ignorance of carry laws in the issuing state, and reciprocity states (if they even know what reciprocity is or where to look) surrounding duty to notify, printing, prohibited areas, vehicle concealment, etc.

Might that be due a confusing ever changing landscape of law morphed by the sometimes irrational regulate-me-to-feel-safe approach to managing personal fears?

You apparently believe that there is such thing as a prohibited area. Sure, I won't risk taking a firearm there but I'm not the guy you need to worry about; Yes, the law keeps me from carrying a gun in a prohibited area.

But does that work for the guy you do need to worry about?

... there are some truly STUPID uneducated people carrying weapons.

There are stupid uneducated people:
. driving cars
. flying airplanes
. pretty much anything anyone can do

I would argue that as a smart educated person it is in your best interest to try and educate rather than regulate. After all, you cannot regulate a person who cannot be educated - they wouldn't understand.

[EDIT]

Oh yeah, I watched that video. To, uhm, I forgot who posted it:

Although I believe that the point of the story has a valid message to those who wish to improve their tactical training, the scenario is concocted as to be seriously biased and an unreliable argument for the efficacy of personal use of firearms for protection.

One could conclude from that video that guns are best left in the hands of LE.

But let's put the officer in that front center seat. My "bad guy" is a fully briefed special forces soldier that has ran through the scenario a few times. I would wager that my soldier will put a bullet in the head of the lecturer and the police officer before the officer has moved to move his shirt out of the way. Give my soldier a partner and all bets are off for everyone in that room.

Should we then conclude from my scenario that guns are not effective for LE?
 
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You can buy a fully automatic weapon anytime you want. You can't get it at Walmart fully automatic, you have to walk a few blocks down the street to the guy who will "fix" it for you.
A few blocks from every Walmart? Awesome. Why didn't I know this? You have the 'fix' companies name? Pardon the ignorance, I'd probably know this stuff if I watched the news.
 
No, stupid is thinking a gun with ammo in the magazine is unloaded.

Weren't you the guy admiting you didn't know much at all about firearms?

Or do I have you confused with another poster?
 
A Hugue Grip will take some of the the bite out of that LCP, and fit a larger hand a bit better. Or so I am told..

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It simply comes down to knowing the law(s) as a responsible owner. Each State has its own laws and definitions. and the Feds have others. FAA/TSA may have yet another set. Anyone flying commercial needs to know what's allowed and how.

The fines and punishment may be stupid and seemingly arbitrary, but them's the rules.
 
Weren't you the guy admiting you didn't know much at all about firearms?

Or do I have you confused with another poster?

You're frequently and easily confused. I'm the guy who works for one of the largest shooting retailers in the U.S.
 
The kid did miss an opportunity though. I love throwing my big plastic case open on the TSA desk and watching all the anti gun folks wet their pants and look at me in disgust when the hardware comes out. That's reason enough for me to "need" to take them....

People like you are idiots. And you're not helping those of us who enjoy our firearms and support the 2nd amendment. There will always be people who are scared of firearms and why someone would go out of their way to heighten others' anxiety is beyond me. Your stupid stunts cause people to want stricter gun laws.
 
People like you are idiots. And you're not helping those of us who enjoy our firearms and support the 2nd amendment.

Their code word for this is "educating". Anyone who isn't rabidly pro-gun and anti-law needs to be "educated". I own, I carry (CHP), and I support. I also believe its a very private matter (concealed), done with knowledge of applicable laws. i have great disdain for those who feel the need to advertise it, brag about it, and shove it in other peoples faces.
 
People like you are idiots. And you're not helping those of us who enjoy our firearms and support the 2nd amendment. There will always be people who are scared of firearms and why someone would go out of their way to heighten others' anxiety is beyond me. Your stupid stunts cause people to want stricter gun laws.

That's what the TSA tells me to do. I dunno what you're so wound up about.

Youre 2 for 2 responding to my post with a personal insult. Congrats.
 
Their code word for this is "educating". Anyone who isn't rabidly pro-gun and anti-law needs to be "educated". I own, I carry (CHP), and I support. I also believe its a very private matter (concealed), done with knowledge of applicable laws. i have great disdain for those who feel the need to advertise it, brag about it, and shove it in other peoples faces.
Yes. We must protect our freedoms by hiding them.:rolleyes2: Maybe I should write in smaller letters or lighter font. Shhhhh
 
Their code word for this is "educating". Anyone who isn't rabidly pro-gun and anti-law needs to be "educated". I own, I carry (CHP), and I support. I also believe its a very private matter (concealed), done with knowledge of applicable laws. i have great disdain for those who feel the need to advertise it, brag about it, and shove it in other peoples faces.

That's a big stretch there. No bragging, advertising or shoving anything in anyone's face. The TSA insists that I bring my guns in a big plastic case and open it for all to see when I check them is none of the above. It's what the law says I must do.

I apologize that I think the ensuing circus that sometimes unfolds is freaking hilarious. The snide remarks, the looks of disgust. Maybe you guys should get together and come up with some regulations on how I'm allowed to feel.

If they would just let me check them in the same bag with my underwear, that's what I'd do.
 
Yes. We must protect our freedoms by hiding them.:rolleyes2: Maybe I should write in smaller letters or lighter font. Shhhhh

I normally agree with you, but not on this. I'm not sure what you mean by "them" in your statement. I'm certainly not advocating hiding guns, and I'll open carry at a range, more for convenience than anything else. But while I do support the right of people to open carry, say at the mall, I think they're idiots for doing so. Just as people have the right to burn the flag and WBC can protest at soldiers' funerals...just because you have the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

We KNOW that some people are terrified of guns. Why shove it in their faces just because you can? It's those people who will BEG for stricter gun laws - and that's the last thing we want or need. I'm just saying that we're all adults and we need to behave as such. I've advocated on this forum many times before for responsible behavior with firearms because it will further our cause. If you make people uneasy about something they fear then of course they will try to quash it. The more responsible we are, the more we put others at ease.

Every fatal shooting incident is another chink in the 2A. I believe that over the years it's been eroded substantially already and as much as I don't like to admit it, I think there are more restrictive times ahead. I wish I had the answer. I know the NRA helps. A lot. But as individuals the best thing we can do is not give people cause for alarm because we own and carry guns. Don't go out of your way to scare them. Go out of your way to convince them that you are an intelligent person and you own guns and that you are safe. And they are safe.
 
I agree, mostly, and I'm not one of the open carryiots. But if we are hiding guns because of public perception we lost the war, simply that the message of defeat hasn't gotten to everyone yet.
 
You can buy a fully automatic weapon anytime you want. You can't get it at Walmart fully automatic, you have to walk a few blocks down the street to the guy who will "fix" it for you.

So the lamestream media would like you to believe. Real-life gunsmiths who want to stay licensed and out of prison are smarter than that.
 
I normally agree with you, but not on this.
...just because you have the right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Normally I agree with you also, but I think you're flat wrong on this. The 2A suffers from the same erosion as any other right. Use it or lose it. The result of all this hysteria from the anti-gun crowd is just their own problem, and if it results in further restrictions, we will find a way to exercise those rights which cannot be infringed.

There are rare, even extremely rare cases where a person is carrying a firearm for the purpose of civil disruption. These cases are rare because most gun owners have become afraid to carry in the open due to the civil disruption it causes! See the problem here? It's a self-fulfilling prophesy: 'We are afraid of guns, therefore gun owners should not show them' -->> 'We are afraid of guns, therefore guns need to be restricted from xxx area' -->> 'We are afraid of guns, therefore guns will need to be registered with the local xxx authority' -->> 'We are afraid of guns, therefore all registered guns will be confiscated, and kept in a secure area for you to check out and use' -->> 'We are afraid of guns, therefore you will need permission in the future to check out your gun and use it' -->> 'We are afraid of guns, therefore your confiscated guns are now property of the state'.

Tell me I'm wrong? I respect the civil disruption problem, but by the same token, the 2A says that the rest of 'civilization' will just need to pucker up and deal. Sorry if that offends, but after all they are MY civil rights too.
 
You can buy a fully automatic weapon anytime you want. You can't get it at Walmart fully automatic, you have to walk a few blocks down the street to the guy who will "fix" it for you.


So what's his address? Which Walmart gun would you have to bring him? What specifically is he going to "fix"? Where does he get his parts?

More to the point, since you're an expert now on such things... Why haven't you turned him into ATF? I can't imagine an anti-gun person such as yourself not at least making an anonymous tip to uphold the law.

(In other words, you're making **** up again. The number of people willing to risk going to prison for such activity is exceedingly low, and your assertion that he's "down the street" from WalMart is made up BS, as usual.)

I know it's hard, but you might be having a hard time distinguishing reality from fiction.

And you're the one who posts that you want people to back up their claims on non-gun threads. Cute.

Please post the list of illegal firearms modifying "guys" that are "a few blocks" from every WalMart in America. I'm pretty sure ATF would appreciate you finding them and doing their work for them.
 
A Hugue Grip will take some of the the bite out of that LCP, and fit a larger hand a bit better. Or so I am told..



2327fe1e8d013dff775a2b7e2c4ba842.image.300x217.jpg


Kinda OT, but I didn't find that it "bit" at all. It flipped a bit (controllable but the bore axis is significantly above the grip so it's going to do that) and the trigger was crap.

I think I've had squirt guns with better triggers.

It's also short enough that to rack it with an overhand rack, you're as likely to put your hand in front of the muzzle as not. I have big paws.

My iPhone has better ergonomics. The slide release is truly awful.

Not my favorite, but it shoots. I wouldn't buy one. It is what it is. It's not mine so I won't be spending any money on grips for it. ;)
 
You're frequently and easily confused. I'm the guy who works for one of the largest shooting retailers in the U.S.


WalMart? :)

That phrase doesn't mean much about anyone's firearms knowledge or experience. Especially if it's a big box store.

Not too many big box store sales counter personnel who also work as instructors and/or hold significant competition "wallpaper" or have other significant achievements.

Sure there's a few. I suspect if you had such achievements you'd have mentioned those instead of the vague "largest shooting retailers" phrase.

Generally, if a retail store doesn't have a firing range attached, where the sales guys double as Range Safety Officers and Instructors... I'm not going to listen to much coming out of the sales guy's pie-hole without knowing a lot more about their background. Just the way it is.

Call a semi-auto "loaded" if it has rounds in the magazine, but not in the chamber, if you like. Doesn't bother me. It still isn't going to do anything without actually racking it and ... loading ... a round into the chamber.

Same thing with a number of other arms. Pump action shotgun... etc.

I've never defended the idiot for his choice to have the mag inserted. But, I'll happily point out to the uninformed that it can't possibly fire in that condition, ever.

People are *generally* misinformed about firearms. Their first reaction to a "news" story about a "loaded" one is, "Oh! It could have 'gone off'!" Which, in this guy's case, wasn't true.
 
Their code word for this is "educating". Anyone who isn't rabidly pro-gun and anti-law needs to be "educated". I own, I carry (CHP), and I support. I also believe its a very private matter (concealed), done with knowledge of applicable laws. i have great disdain for those who feel the need to advertise it, brag about it, and shove it in other peoples faces.


I used to consider even mentioning that I owned firearms a private matter.

Once Bloomberg brought his millions of dollars in bribe money to the Colorado legislature, and I watched my supposedly "representative" government ignore any and all legitimate and rational discussion as long as the money and the *literally* cut-and-pasted NY law be put forth as something people here asked for... I decided never to participate in the "If I just keep to myself, the morons can't bother me." lie, ever again.

We mobilized. We got two elected politicians recalled and forced another out of office. Our *elected* law enforcement (as opposed to the appointed type with bigger budgets and far less oversight) sued the State. Colorado's law-abiding firearm owners drew a line in the sand and said, no. We aren't going to allow a billionaire playboy from NY determine our local laws.

There's a fine line between saying, "This is my hobby and my right and I'm harming no one. Here's some better information for you about guns than you're getting from media outlets who's sole purpose on the planet is to garner emotional vs rational responses from humans to get them to watch their advertising." and "Shoving it in other people's faces." I agree.

But people think light airplanes are "dangerous" too. And I'm not ashamed to say that I'm a pilot.

So I decided personally, that I would speak. Plainly and honestly. If I feel like going to the range and leaving the 1911 on my hip in a holster and joining some friends at the coffee shop after shooting, so be it.

I do avoid anyone or anything that smells like "militia" type movements. There's a lot of loons attracted to such silliness.

But if the guys say they're having coffee at an open-carry event on Saturday? Sure. Might go if I have nothing better to do. It's no different to me than strapping on the cell phone anymore. Because the more folks see there's nothing wrong with it, the better.

As far as concealed goes? Concealed is concealed, is concealed. Plenty of folks out there concealing, with and without legal paperwork to do so. None of my business or anyone else's. If someone wants to shove an FN Tactical .45 down their shorts, I don't care. They can his strap it on outside their pants if they want, too, if they find that easier.

Airports have rules. Kid broke the rules. He did it unintentionally, with no intent to harm, and no harm done. He doesn't deserve bankruptcy or criminal charges. We have enough people incarcerated here.

If we lock up people for being idiots, there can never be another "buy a shotgun" Joe Biden. :) Think of all the laughter and mirth he brings! Think of the children!! ;)
 
So what's his address? Which Walmart gun would you have to bring him? What specifically is he going to "fix"? Where does he get his parts?

More to the point, since you're an expert now on such things... Why haven't you turned him into ATF? I can't imagine an anti-gun person such as yourself not at least making an anonymous tip to uphold the law.

(In other words, you're making **** up again. The number of people willing to risk going to prison for such activity is exceedingly low, and your assertion that he's "down the street" from WalMart is made up BS, as usual.)

I know it's hard, but you might be having a hard time distinguishing reality from fiction.

And you're the one who posts that you want people to back up their claims on non-gun threads. Cute.

Please post the list of illegal firearms modifying "guys" that are "a few blocks" from every WalMart in America. I'm pretty sure ATF would appreciate you finding them and doing their work for them.

I'm going by what I hear around here. All weekend, I hear the guy down the road test firing guns he has been working on. The guys at the coffee shop (all CC) say he and his son have been in prison at least once. OK, it is quite a walk to Walmart, but not beyond my capability. As you rightly assume, I have not purchased a gun lately and I have not attempted to have any altered. That does not mean that I never have or that I never will. You may have noticed that I defend the right of people to exclude firearms from their property, whether that is private property or a museum open to the public. I don't say anything about turning anyone in to law enforcement, nor do I publish names of individuals or firms. Not even in the rape threads. I don't make **** up. You owe me an apology. :wonderwoman:
 
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What makes you think what he is doing is illegal? Full Auto guns are not illegal if done with the proper paperwork, this even includes manufacturing them..
 
I'm going by what I hear around here. All weekend, I hear the guy down the road test firing guns he has been working on. The guys at the coffee shop (all CC) say he and his son have been in prison at least once. OK, it is quite a walk to Walmart, but not beyond my capability. As you rightly assume, I have not purchased a gun lately and I have not attempted to have any altered. That does not mean that I never have or that I never will. You may have noticed that I defend the right of people to exclude firearms from their property, whether that is private property or a museum open to the public. I don't say anything about turning anyone in to law enforcement, nor do I publish names of individuals or firms. Not even in the rape threads. I don't make **** up. You owe me an apology. :wonderwoman:


Well let's see... "Around here". I guess that covers all WalMarts.

And you know what they say about a fool listening to another fool... And repeating whatever they said...

You may not make **** up, but I don't think your "source" is very credible.

I don't owe you and your bad information a damned thing.
 
P.S. If you really do have some guy illegally modifying firearms near YOUR WalMart, perhaps you should not tell US about your idiots and local problems, but turn their asses in to law enforcement. Like I said, ATF would appreciate the help.

It's certainly not worthy of mentioning in a discussion about firearms on a national/international scale forum, since it's not a national or international scale problem from your "evidence".

And darned embarrassing that you have it going on locally and haven't taken care of it there, "Wonder Woman".

If you're unsure if it's really occurring or unsure if it's really illegal, I'm sure ATF and the local Sheriff will understand why you wasted their time.
 
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