Trying to gauge interest and a possible price...

[Darsh]

Hey y'all,

I recently printed a few canvas prints of some aviation pictures I took to put on my wall, and a few of my buddies told my I should consider selling them as a way to earn a few extra flight hours here or there. Here's an example of one of them. It's 20 inches by 30 inches but I included my iphone in the picture for scale.(sorry for the crap quality. had to take the picture of the canvas with my ipad. The canvas itself is crystal clear)

Do you guys think this is something that people would be interested in? And if so, what would be a fair price? I was thinking somewhere in the 70-80 dollar range? Any comments would be appreciated! Also, If I were to end up selling em, there would definitely be a substantial discount for members of PoA.

Thanks!

-Darsh

 

[Henning]

$70-80? Not a chance, this is poster shop stuff, $2-3, $7.50 mounted. Selling art at any real value requires two things, a recognized name, and a market that wants to spend money. You have neither.

 

[superdad]

I would say around the 10-15 range

 

[James331]

I would say around the 10-15 range

Sounds about right.

 

[dans2992]

Pilots are cheap....

 

[Henning]

Pilots are cheap....

Especially when you consider most people have the capability of reproducing the image with their own plane.

 

[frfly172]

Would keep the price under 20 dollars,pilots are cheap.

 

[Hank S]

Yes, we can take similar photos with our own planes. My printer won't do 20" x 30" much less canvas. Then there's the nice writing on the front.

I like the picture. $15 is probably the break even point for just the printing, zero for the photograph, camera, printer, time or profit.

 

[ron22]

What about offering to print other peoples pictures on canvas?

 

[Henning]

Yes, we can take similar photos with our own planes. My printer won't do 20" x 30" much less canvas. Then there's the nice writing on the front.

I like the picture. $15 is probably the break even point for just the printing, zero for the photograph, camera, printer, time or profit.

You can send the file off to any number of labs and get a print back, if you order 1000, they are $2-$3 a piece, mounting is a small extra.

As for the $15 price point, now you understand why digital photography completely changed the photography market. It is now within the scope of anyone with a smart phone to produce that exact image, text and all, for chump change. People would rather shoot their own stuff than buy yours, unless you a dealing with a unique and popular subject matter, or produce outstanding and exceptional images, of which this is not.

Even commercial level photography has dropped severely with the "iPhone photo service" out there.

 

[Darsh]

At wholesale price from a professional canvas service, the print cost 35.99 to print, and then 15 to ship. 70-80 is making a 20-30 dollar profit. The canvas print isn't just a poster, it's a canvas wrap mounted to a wooden frame. The retail price of getting your own canvas done not via wholesaler is anywhere from 50-100 dollars for a similar size (eazl.com charges 51.99 for a 20x30 and then 15 for shipping, Costco charges 60.00 before shipping, and mpix charges 110 plus shipping)

Henning, I don't know where you're getting this $2-3 dollar pricing because I have yet to find a single printer that will do a canvas wrap for that. The company I go through is literally the cheapest one I could find. If you have a link for a cheaper printer, I'd love to have it!
Here's a few better quality pictures, but they're still iphone pics. I left my camera down at school haha.

Thanks for the feedback though everyone!

 

[Henning]

Well, the canvas bit doesn't sell well except on portraits, and when you order by the thousand as when does for the retail market, things get real cheap from China or Indonesia. You are pricing in the custom art work market for prints, but you aren't making the shooting fee and aren't delivering a custom product, the model you are trying for doesn't exist unless you have a serious reputation with incredible work, then you can get real prices for signed limited edition prints. Go to the mall and look in one of the poster shops, that is your market point. Remember when you look at the price tag, the photographer or artist gets a small fraction of that.

Also you have to upgrade the quality of the images, the noise from under exposure is pretty heavy.

 

[rwellner98]

At wholesale price from a professional canvas service, the print cost 35.99 to print, and then 15 to ship. 70-80 is making a 20-30 dollar profit. The canvas print isn't just a poster, it's a canvas wrap mounted to a wooden frame. The retail price of getting your own canvas done not via wholesaler is anywhere from 50-100 dollars for a similar size (eazl.com charges 51.99 for a 20x30 and then 15 for shipping, Costco charges 60.00 before shipping, and mpix charges 110 plus shipping)

My mom sells through http://fineartamerica.com/ and even though she travels and does some great work, doesn't make a whole lot. Given the cheapness of pilots and the ability of pretty much anyone to reproduce the shots, I'm sorry to make the same recommendation as others. I think your market is selling $10 impulse purchase prints out of a booth at SnF and Airventure, not canvas prints online.

 

[pigpenracing]

Put it on ebay starting at $1.00 and no reserve. That will tell you what its worth.

 

[Darsh]

Well, the canvas bit doesn't sell well except on portraits, and when you order by the thousand as when does for the retail market, things get real cheap from China or Indonesia. You are pricing in the custom art work market for prints, but you aren't making the shooting fee and aren't delivering a custom product, the model you are trying for doesn't exist unless you have a serious reputation with incredible work, then you can get real prices for signed limited edition prints. Go to the mall and look in one of the poster shops, that is your market point. Remember when you look at the price tag, the photographer or artist gets a small fraction of that.



Also you have to upgrade the quality of the images, the noise from under exposure is pretty heavy.

Yeah, I just bought a Nikon d500 for fairly cheap from a family member and the market I was mostly aiming for was the parents of the student pilots at my university as we already sell apparel that a portion of the profits go to the Aviation Management Society. But honestly thanks for all this information! I now know this isn't feasible at all haha.

 

[Henning]

Yeah, I just bought a Nikon d500 for fairly cheap from a family member and the market I was mostly aiming for was the parents of the student pilots at my university as we already sell apparel that a portion of the profits go to the Aviation Management Society. But honestly thanks for all this information! I now know this isn't feasible at all haha.

Photography is a really tough business, and it has only gotten tougher since digital.

When you spend camera money, spend it on the glass, get the highest quality, brightest lenses you can get before you buy a better body. Every shot starts with the optics.

 

[Darsh]

Photography is a really tough business, and it has only gotten tougher since digital.



When you spend camera money, spend it on the glass, get the highest quality, brightest lenses you can get before you buy a better body. Every shot starts with the optics.

Yeah, my family member just bought a d1000 so she sold me her d500 and 4 different lenses for a great deal(200 bucks) I also just listed the canvas on Etsy to see if any chumps are stupid enough to pay the $75 price(considering the fact I saw blurry "abstract" 20x30 prints being sold for $200 bucks, I said why the hell not.) Only cost me twenty cents to list it, so the way I see it I really have nothing to lose haha. Judging by the comments I've gotten here though, I don't have high hopes and will honestly laugh if it sells.

 

[Henning]

Yeah, my family member just bought a d1000 so she sold me her d500 and 4 different lenses for a great deal(200 bucks) I also just listed the canvas on Etsy to see if any chumps are stupid enough to pay the $75 price(considering the fact I saw blurry "abstract" 20x30 prints being sold for $200 bucks, I said why the hell not.) Only cost me twenty cents to list it, so the way I see it I really have nothing to lose haha. Judging by the comments I've gotten here though, I don't have high hopes and will honestly laugh if it sells.

Mount up a 300-2.8 EDAF lens, maybe don't, it's kind of like flying a Bonanza, once you try one, you buy one, and they ain't cheap. If you are in a good market, you can rent them. It's my favorite all around lens for a Nikon.

 

[Darsh]

Mount up a 300-2.8 EDAF lens, maybe don't, it's kind of like flying a Bonanza, once you try one, you buy one, and they ain't cheap. If you are in a good market, you can rent them. It's my favorite all around lens for a Nikon.

Haha you read my mind, I was literally about to ask what type of lens you'd recommend for the Nikon.

 

[Henning]

Haha you read my mind, I was literally about to ask what type of lens you'd recommend for the Nikon.

That and the 105-2.5 were the lenses I carried on a Nikon full time, each had its on dedicated body and motor drive. Any standard or wide field shots I did were either 120/220 using a Hasselblad, a Bronica ETRS, a Pentax 6x7 (my first medium format camera) or a Mamyia RB-67. I did have a Nikor 50-1.2 for the Nikon F-AI mount (actually I put the AI notch land on an F mount 1.2 with a file to save $200) but I rarely used it.

If you want some high quality aftermarket lenses, Sigma makes the only ones I like.

Studio or industrial stuff I did mostly on a Lindoff 4x5 or a Sinar 8x10.

 

[Darsh]

That and the 105-2.5 were the lenses I carried on a Nikon full time, each had its on dedicated body and motor drive. Any standard or wide field shots I did were either 120/220 using a Hasselblad, a Bronica ETRS, a Pentax 6x7 (my first medium format camera) or a Mamyia RB-67. I did have a Nikor 50-1.2 for the Nikon F-AI mount (actually I put the AI notch land on an F mount 1.2 with a file to save $200) but I rarely used it.



If you want some high quality aftermarket lenses, Sigma makes the only ones I like.



Studio or industrial stuff I did mostly on a Lindoff 4x5 or a Sinar 8x10.



View attachment 37302

Haha ya know, some times you gotta jerry rig stuff to save a buck. It may not be the prettiest thing in the world, but whatever works! Thanks again for all the help man! You've been a tremendous wealth of information.

 

[Henning]

Haha ya know, some times you gotta jerry rig stuff to save a buck. It may not be the prettiest thing in the world, but whatever works! Thanks again for all the help man! You've been a tremendous wealth of information.

You're welcome. One thing about lens choice though, just because those are the focal lengths I choose (now I just carry a Sony SLR with their G 70-400 4-5.6 zoom), does not necessarily mean you will be happy with them (except the 300-2.8, I don't know anyone who doesn't love that lens even if it is more work than hauling hod up 4 floors of scaffolding). Focal length is a matter of vision, of how you see things, pick focal lengths that allow you to represent your mind's eye.

For personal stuff, I'll use a zoom lens, if I'm shooting for money, it's fixed focal length only; the difference all that extra glass in a zoom makes is significant at the professional level.

 

[Henning]

Oh, one other thing, if you are carrying 2 Nikons, one with a 300-2.8 EDIF lens, you can walk into nearly anywhere like you own the place and get great access for shots. "Hi, I'm here to get some shots of..." gets you into so many places, and free, it's amazing. Also, no fine girl ever refuses to pose for the 300, that lens is a chick magnet. One of the best things is, you get incredible head shots while maintaining a distance that doesn't get 'creepy' as you talk them out of their clothes.

I don't know where Palatine is, but I think it's around Chicago. If you want to start in photography, and you are in a market for it (Chicago will do) head shots and comp sheets dude. Those fed me and paid my bills while I was getting in my sea time for my first captain's ticket and was making me some cash since I was in high school. You can't charge a bunch for them, but there is a large volume out there, and you get good repeat clients. After I set them up with an initial headshot and 5 change comp sheet, every 3 months or when a new demand arises, we do another shot and print them as 5x7s or even 4x6 post cards, mini head shots, each a fresh look with the same name that gets a mailing to all the casting directors and such on a continuous basis. It works well, it shows one is committed and not a complete flake.

I used to shoot them on 4x5 TMX and process HC-110 dil B and focus direct on the iris with a 360mm Grandagon wide open at 5.6, the effect is out-freaking-standing, and that's what you want because at a casting call sort, people are flipping through thousands of head shots looking for someone that 'pops' out at them. With a good digital and excellent glass, you can now get that quality in an SLR package. If I had the Nikkor 300-2.8 I'd shoot wide open for minimum possible depth of field unless she has beautiful ears, then I shoot f-5.6. You'll need to manually focus though, AF has been very disappointing to me.

 

[Darsh]

Oh, one other thing, if you are carrying 2 Nikons, one with a 300-2.8 EDIF lens, you can walk into nearly anywhere like you own the place and get great access for shots. "Hi, I'm here to get some shots of..." gets you into so many places, and free, it's amazing. Also, no fine girl ever refuses to pose for the 300, that lens is a chick magnet. One of the best things is, you get incredible head shots while maintaining a distance that doesn't get 'creepy' as you talk them out of their clothes.



I don't know where Palatine is, but I think it's around Chicago. If you want to start in photography, and you are in a market for it (Chicago will do) head shots and comp sheets dude. Those fed me and paid my bills while I was getting in my sea time for my first captain's ticket and was making me some cash since I was in high school. You can't charge a bunch for them, but there is a large volume out there, and you get good repeat clients. After I set them up with an initial headshot and 5 change comp sheet, every 3 months or when a new demand arises, we do another shot and print them as 5x7s or even 4x6 post cards, mini head shots, each a fresh look with the same name that gets a mailing to all the casting directors and such on a continuous basis. It works well, it shows one is committed and not a complete flake.



I used to shoot them on 4x5 TMX and process HC-110 dil B and focus direct on the iris with a 360mm Grandagon wide open at 5.6, the effect is out-freaking-standing, and that's what you want because at a casting call sort, people are flipping through thousands of head shots looking for someone that 'pops' out at them. With a good digital and excellent glass, you can now get that quality in an SLR package. If I had the Nikkor 300-2.8 I'd shoot wide open for minimum possible depth of field unless she has beautiful ears, then I shoot f-5.6. You'll need to manually focus though, AF has been very disappointing to me.

I was actually thinking about heading to the local airport to take some shots of some of the aircraft on the field (with the owners permission of course). DeKalb Airport even has a few P-51 mustangs that are airworthy, and everyone who flies out of there are great people. As of now, I'm way too broke to be in the market for some new glass, but hopefully the holidays will put a little bit of extra cash into my pocket to get things rolling.

If I'm understanding you correctly, I think the 300-2.8 EDIF should be my first purchase correct? If not, what would you recommend? The lenses I have currently are quite basic, as my aunt had used them primarily for pictures of her kids playing soccer etc. I'd check the exact lens specs for you, but my nikon is down at school in Carbondale.

Also, should I buy new? Cuz I'm kinda worried about purchasing a lens used, especially since one minor nick in the glass trashes the lens entirely, or am I overthinking it?

 

[Henning]

I was actually thinking about heading to the local airport to take some shots of some of the aircraft on the field (with the owners permission of course). DeKalb Airport even has a few P-51 mustangs that are airworthy, and everyone who flies out of there are great people. As of now, I'm way too broke to be in the market for some new glass, but hopefully the holidays will put a little bit of extra cash into my pocket to get things rolling.

If I'm understanding you correctly, I think the 300-2.8 EDIF should be my first purchase correct? If not, what would you recommend? The lenses I have currently are quite basic, as my aunt had used them primarily for pictures of her kids playing soccer etc. I'd check the exact lens specs for you, but my nikon is down at school in Carbondale.

Also, should I buy new? Cuz I'm kinda worried about purchasing a lens used, especially since one minor nick in the glass trashes the lens entirely, or am I overthinking it?

Lenses are like airplanes, they are optimized for certain uses. If you are even close to a low cash situation, and you don't have a way to make the 300 EDIF pay for itself, you will not be buying it as a first lens, especially when you havent yet developed your own style, these lenses are thousands of dollars used. You should be able to rent one in Chicago if you want to try one for a weekend and occasionally use one for a planned shot.

A good long amateur grade lens to learn and develop with is this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sigma-400mm...28203135?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item43d483997f
It's a little dark for wildlife which are best shot at dust and dawn, but image stabilization is good for 2 stops of light.

 

[Lawreston]

Darsh: If I can find it quickly I'll post a shot of some of my canvas pieces. Each is 11" x 16", though there are a couple 16" x 24" in the group. I use a Full Frame Sony DSLR. Prime lens is a Carl Zeiss 24-70mm, f2.8. It's almost as heavy as the body. I have other lenses, fixed focus; and the same 70-400mm lens referenced earlier by Henning. Each of the named lenses were near $2000 toys(at different times), but Sony Online Store blessed me with 0% interest for two years. Anytime I can work on another company's money, it's good. Of course, they were just waiting for me to miss a payment by one day and the interest rate would have shot to exorbitant, and back to Day #1.
I bought two bodies(separately) via same method.
Marketing of product? I get out there and hustle, often to intended target clients; and I do Arts and Crafts Fairs. (I also have TIME in retirement to do that.
The 11" x 16" pieces sell at an average $100.00, sometimes more. I'll post a follow-up of another track I follow. You've received some good - some more honest than you preferred - advice. Remember: GLASS is CLASS. Buy it first.

HR

 

[Henning]

Remember: GLASS is CLASS. Buy it first.

HR

Yep. After I had my neck surgery, I just couldn't carry the long bright EDIF lenses anymore, and I was really missing have a long lens for birds and wildlife, plus I like the depth compression in portraiture. I was in Amsterdam with a Russian girlfriend and she popped into a camera store just as they were closing to grab some batteries. I saw the 70-400 on the shelf and asked to see it. He told me they were closing and I told him he really wanted to show me that lens, he took the hint. It passed scrutiny so I asked him for the cheapest body I could mount on it. Paid $2k for the lens and $200 for the body. I'm happy enough with the lens that when this a33 body dies, or I have a paying gig for it, I'll buy their good body as well. For personal stuff this body does just fine.

 

[denverpilot]

You're welcome. One thing about lens choice though, just because those are the focal lengths I choose (now I just carry a Sony SLR with their G 70-400 4-5.6 zoom), does not necessarily mean you will be happy with them (except the 300-2.8, I don't know anyone who doesn't love that lens even if it is more work than hauling hod up 4 floors of scaffolding). Focal length is a matter of vision, of how you see things, pick focal lengths that allow you to represent your mind's eye.



For personal stuff, I'll use a zoom lens, if I'm shooting for money, it's fixed focal length only; the difference all that extra glass in a zoom makes is significant at the professional level.

I was really excited that Sony maintained the Minolta mount and lenses and thought they'd be serious about the DSLR market. Enjoy shooting mine too, but the horror stories of their sensors dying early deaths and Sony's "pay us virtually the entire price of the camera and we'll fix it" attitude has soured me on them.

A pro photog friend trashed his sensor in 1/10th of the time he normally took to destroy a Nikon sensor. Sony essentially told him to stuff it. He did. In the trash can. And went back to the world of competition where Nikon and Canon actually fight to keep pro shooters on their platforms.

Love shooting mine. Love borrowing old family lenses to do interesting stuff. Won't buy again. Sony doesn't "get it".

 

[Lawreston]

To Darsh

There is an area not far from here which is ocean front upscale. There are more than a few "cottages," not many of which are permanent residences but are owned by out-of-staters who come to Maine during summers. Shall we say that the neighborhood is not frequented by door-to-door salesmen. I took aerial shots of nine of the properties. I went to the town's assessing department, displayed my images and was informed as to the owners' names and addresses(public information). To each address I sent a 5 x 7 of the respective home, each print overprinted P R O O F P R I N T and indicated prints and/or enlargements could be made available.

Below is one of the results, the email having come from Massachusetts:
-----Original Message-----
From: Name redacted for privacy of client
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 3:47 PM
To: Lawreston / Distinctive Views
Subject: WOW wow wow and THANK YOU!

Lawreston,

The package came today; perfect timing as my husband is in Europe all week
so I have time to wrap and hide....

It is just stunning, thank you very very much.

I can't quite believe that we have the keys to the front door ( along with
the bank)....
But it's worth working for, that is for certain.

Mostly it's an absolutely wonderful family home that I hope will be enjoyed
for generations to come and now we'll all have the photo of what it looked
like in July 2014!

With appreciation,

And I hope you'll visit during the summer of 2015,


Name Redacted

Please let me know the balance due!

Merry Merry Holidays !

Name Redacted
617-Redacted

The order was for four 5 x 7 Lustre prints and one 16 x 24 framed canvas.
5 x 7 = $35 for one; $30 each for two or more. 16 x 24 = $175.00. I was surprised
when I receive the order with a $200 deposit enclosed. My PRO lab had such a good deal on the 5 x 7 (57 cents each) I ordered six and threw two extras into the order at no charge(a "60 dollar value.") Chalk it up to good marketing. Her "neighbors" have beard about her pleasure; other orders appear to be in the making.
The above referenced property is pictured here, if the file size doesn't explode Chuck's system. Right click the thumbnail and Open in a 2nd Window. Best of luck but bear in mind that sales success will not occur from online listing alone.
(Nice little cottage; there are several other image variations of the property which are under consideration.)

HR

 

[Henning]

I was really excited that Sony maintained the Minolta mount and lenses and thought they'd be serious about the DSLR market. Enjoy shooting mine too, but the horror stories of their sensors dying early deaths and Sony's "pay us virtually the entire price of the camera and we'll fix it" attitude has soured me on them.

A pro photog friend trashed his sensor in 1/10th of the time he normally took to destroy a Nikon sensor. Sony essentially told him to stuff it. He did. In the trash can. And went back to the world of competition where Nikon and Canon actually fight to keep pro shooters on their platforms.

Love shooting mine. Love borrowing old family lenses to do interesting stuff. Won't buy again. Sony doesn't "get it".

How do the sensors get destroyed? What happens to them? Mine is a few years old now. At this point it wouldn't hurt my feelings to have to upgrade the body.

It is very rare I shoot pro anymore, and I'll rent real gear for that.

 

[Lawreston]

Henning: I have the Sony A900 body(now a discontinued model, of course) (and the A100 before that). The A900 is the first one ever sold to anyone in Maine. I had Pre-ordered it in a July, the model's national release only to be on October 20. Somehow the Sony Online Store didn't send me the receipt and the software kept Not Recognizing my personal information to get into the site. Many phone calls, many emails, and continually being told, "Try it now, Mr. Crute; we think we have it corrected." Nothing worked. Finally, on October 08 and several lengthy phone calls with tech support they gave me the same story. I tried it and I got into my account.
Two hours later I got an email: "Mr. Crute, this is to inform you that your Sony A900 body has been shipped Special Handling and should arrive at your destination within 48 hours." Whatever happened to the October 20 national release date? It came on the 10th. I was traveling to Portland for other reasons and took it with me. I walked into RITZ CAMERA with it around my neck and was accosted by three sales associates.
"Where did you get that?"
""I just got it today.""
"But it doesn't exist; it hasn't been released."
""Oh, I bought it on the Internet.""
"Can we hold it? We've only seen a prototype in a lucite box. We won't be getting stock until well into November."

I told them the above story and they agreed that, because I'd been "such a PITA" over several months with Sony, "They greased your palm and you got it a couple weeks before anybody else." True story! I bought the heavy duty lenses after that.

HR

 

[Darsh]

Darsh: If I can find it quickly I'll post a shot of some of my canvas pieces. Each is 11" x 16", though there are a couple 16" x 24" in the group. I use a Full Frame Sony DSLR. Prime lens is a Carl Zeiss 24-70mm, f2.8. It's almost as heavy as the body. I have other lenses, fixed focus; and the same 70-400mm lens referenced earlier by Henning. Each of the named lenses were near $2000 toys(at different times), but Sony Online Store blessed me with 0% interest for two years. Anytime I can work on another company's money, it's good. Of course, they were just waiting for me to miss a payment by one day and the interest rate would have shot to exorbitant, and back to Day #1.

I bought two bodies(separately) via same method.

Marketing of product? I get out there and hustle, often to intended target clients; and I do Arts and Crafts Fairs. (I also have TIME in retirement to do that.

The 11" x 16" pieces sell at an average $100.00, sometimes more. I'll post a follow-up of another track I follow. You've received some good - some more honest than you preferred - advice. Remember: GLASS is CLASS. Buy it first.



HR

Hell, I'd rather have someone brutally honest than sugarcoat something. Makes things wayyy easier in the long run. The way I see it, you can't get offended or upset when you put your work out there asking people to critique it. That defeats the purpose of critiquing.

The lens Henning posted is easily in my price range($400 and under), and I plan on purchasing it shortly. I've always loved photography, and I really appreciate all the help I've gotten on these boards. Considering that canvas was taken with a sony point and shoot, it ain't the worst thing in the world but thankfully y'all opened my eyes before I wasted money on ordering more haha(thus why I prefer brutal honesty).

Once I get back down to school and rig up my new lens to the nikon, I'll post some pictures on here for y'all to critique and give your recommendations for. Thanks again for all the help guys!