TRSA question..

[MuseChaser]

I know I should know this, and did at one time, but can't remember and couldn't find a quick answer so I figured I'd share my ignorance with everyone..

There's a couple TRSAs in our area. One, for instance, surrounds KELM Elmira/Corning. In the past I thought I remembered contacting with the standard "Elmira Approach, Bugsmasher 1232X" initial call on the TRSA frequency which is 128.425, but there's also another specific frequency listed for Elmira Approach/Departure ... 118.15. The Binghamton (KBGM) area frequencies, however, are the same for the TRSA there and approach/departure. Are the radio calls in Elmira for the TRSA the same for both frequencies and under what circumstances would you use the 118.15 frequency instead of the TRSA frequency for initial callup, if any?

 

[jordane93]

Try either one. Worse case is ATC will tell you which frequency is the correct one.

 

[Zeldman]

 

[MuseChaser]

Ahhhh.. the ol' trial and error approach. Familiar with it, but would still like to know why one TRSA is the same frequency as the associated Delta, while the other one has it's own specific TRSA frequency in addition to the Delta app freq and which one they prefer for initial contact....inquiring minds'n'all...

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Depends on what chart you look at. The Detoit sectional doesn't list the 118.15 for the KELM TRSA.

 

[NordicDave]

We have a class D TSRA in Palm Springs Ca. The comms procedure is very similar to a Charlie airport when busy, and contact tower directly when traffic was slow. On flight following, ATC guided the next freq to use. Just my experience with only 3 flight to that only TSRA in the log book.

 

[dmspilot]

I know I should know this, and did at one time, but can't remember and couldn't find a quick answer so I figured I'd share my ignorance with everyone..

There's a couple TRSAs in our area. One, for instance, surrounds KELM Elmira/Corning. In the past I thought I remembered contacting with the standard "Elmira Approach, Bugsmasher 1232X" initial call on the TRSA frequency which is 128.425, but there's also another specific frequency listed for Elmira Approach/Departure ... 118.15. The Binghamton (KBGM) area frequencies, however, are the same for the TRSA there and approach/departure. Are the radio calls in Elmira for the TRSA the same for both frequencies and under what circumstances would you use the 118.15 frequency instead of the TRSA frequency for initial callup, if any?

Where are you seeing 118.15?

 

[EdFred]

Where are you seeing 118.15?

Airnav:

NEW YORK ARTCC APPROACH: 118.15

 

[MuseChaser]

Depends on what chart you look at. The Detoit sectional doesn't list the 118.15 for the KELM TRSA.

That's true, ... and a little bizarre. I just downloaded and checked KELM's most recent "Chart Supplement" (the old A/FD) and that 118.15 frequency isn't listed there either, nor on the approach plates. It shows up under airport information in my EFB.. iFlyGPS, and I just updated the charts today... and on the SkyVector airport information page. 128.425 must be the preferred frequency for initial call up, and maybe 118.15 is at the controller's discretion as needs arise?

 

[dmspilot]

Airnav:

NEW YORK ARTCC APPROACH: 118.15

New York Center is not Elmira Approach. OP said he saw 118.15 for Elmira Approach.

 

[EdFred]

New York Center is not Elmira Approach. OP said he saw 118.5 for Elmira Approach.

You asked "where are you seeing 118.15?" I pointed out where it can be seen in regards to Elmira

www.airnav.com/airport/KELM

 

[dmspilot]

You asked "where are you seeing 118.15?" I pointed out where it can be seen.

I wanted to know where OP saw the information that he saw, so that I could answer the question. Not something else that somebody else saw somewhere else.

 

[MuseChaser]

Where are you seeing 118.15?

Airnav:

NEW YORK ARTCC APPROACH: 118.15

Here's a snip from the SkyVector listing, which is similar to the listing in my EFB. Looks like EdFred is right.. the 118.15 frequency could revert back to the New York ARTCC when the KELM ATC is closed, although the New York ARTCC frequency is listed as 133.35. Thanks for the help!

 

[EdFred]

Also on iflightplanner when you pull up the frequencies tab on the airport info, they don't state that 118.15 is ZNY either. List 128.425 and 118.15 but don't say one is ELM and the other ZNY.

Popped onto Avare to see what data they parsed. Avare doesn't even list the APP/DEP frequencies. Just gives ATIS - which should tell you which frequency to contact.

The data from the FAA sucks. I've looked at the raw data. Holy crap it's awful, which is why we sometimes see situations like this.

 

[luvflyin]

Airnav:

NEW YORK ARTCC APPROACH: 118.15

Yeah. Can't figure that one out. It tells you New York ARTCC Aproach runs things on 118.15 [0000-0600] and then goes on to say they do it on 133.35. The AF/D says Center uses 133.5 and don't say nothing about 118.15. Foreflight has 118.15 as a Secondary Approach and Departure Frequency and says Center uses 133.5.

Airport Communications
CTAF: 121.1
UNICOM: 122.95
ATIS: 125.475
WX ASOS: PHONE 607-796-0065
ELMIRA GROUND: 121.9 [0600-0000]
ELMIRA TOWER: 121.1 257.8 [0600-0000]
ELMIRA APPROACH: 128.425 257.8 [0600-0000]
NEW YORK ARTCC APPROACH: 118.15 [0000-0600]
ELMIRA DEPARTURE: 128.425 257.8 [0600-0000]
NEW YORK ARTCC DEPARTURE: 118.15 [0000-0600]
CLEARANCE DELIVERY: 121.9
EMERG: 121.5 243.0
TRSA: 128.425 257.8

• APCH/DEP SVC PRVDD BY NEW YORK ARTCC ON FREQS 133.35/372.0 (SAYRE RCAG) WHEN ELMIRA APCH CTL CLSD.
• FOR CLNC DEL WHEN ATCT CLSD CTC BUFFALO RADIO ON 122.2
• ELEV. 1643.0

 

[luvflyin]

Here's a snip from the SkyVector listing, which is similar to the listing in my EFB. Looks like EdFred is right.. the 118.15 frequency could revert back to the New York ARTCC when the KELM ATC is closed, although the New York ARTCC frequency is listed as 133.35. Thanks for the help!View attachment 77840

The plot thickens

 

[Shepherd]

A scolding and a timeout.
You may have to sit in a corner for an hour.

 

[MuseChaser]

Probably the best course of action is to plan on using 128.425, and verify with ATIS first as Ed suggested. Glad to know I wasn't baffled on this one SOLELY because I'm stupid... Thanks again, all, for checking in on this one.

 

[luvflyin]

I called them. 118.15 is a frequency they have but they hardly ever use it. There's a 124.3 they use sometimes. I didn't ask exactly when but I'm sure they have a couple sectors but are combined up most of the time and use that 124.3 when the get busy and decombine. Center uses 133.35 after hours except up towards the North part of their sky where there's another Center sector that is on 132.17. Anyway that's what the guy said I talked to.

 

[luvflyin]

Probably the best course of action is to plan on using 128.425, and verify with ATIS first as Ed suggested. Glad to know I wasn't baffled on this one SOLELY because I'm stupid... Thanks again, all, for checking in on this one.

No, not you. They, meaning whoever should get all the poop in one bag and quit publishing confusing info be the stoopid ones

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Just gives ATIS - which should tell you which frequency to contact.

Should.

But when I called the ASOS earlier (for the fun of it), it didn't.

 

[EdFred]

ASOS is just the weather though.

 

[Bill]

Foreflight shows 128.425 as the primary app freq and 118.15 as the secondary app freq.

Edit: Also lists 128.425 as the TRSA freq.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

ASOS is just the weather though.

It was more than weather, but I don't recall exactly what.

 

[Jmcmanna]

Their TRACON has two or three positions, but is probably usually combined to one. Some places split their frequency by VFR/IFR (GFK approach). Some based on where the antennas are (GRB approach). Some based on which particular scope the controller is sitting at.

If you are VFR, call the TRSA frequency...if they want you on the other one, they’ll tell you. In all likelihood, it’s one controller working both frequencies. It might even be the same guy working local and ground, too, depending on the time of day.