Traverse Air Multi-Engine Rating with Tom Brady

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PilotDoctor

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PilotDoctor
I just got my multi rating there. I failed twice. I can tell you what I would have done differently to pass. Respond if interested
 
Please spill the beans for everyone's benefit.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Why the guessing game why not just post helpful information?
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sorry this is my first day on this site. I figured no one would respond and I would have wasted a half hour of my life typing a post that no one would read
 
StraightnLevel said:
Very interested. What would you have done differently?
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Tom is about 500% better than any instructor that I had in the past. And I have had a lot of instructors. I do not want to throw him under the bus publicly. There are a FEW small things I think he could do better. Mostly it was me, listening to "pilot talk" for ten years - people say the multi rating is SO EASY. So, I thought it would be easy. Do not listed to those people. Accelerated training is HARD. If anyone can get you trained in two days, it would be Tom. However, 2 day training is an EXTREMELY short amount of time for becoming a knowledgeable, proficient, and skilled multi-engine pilot.

Here is an analogy - remember the last few days before you took a checkride in the past? You were 99.5% ready to take the checkride, right? You wanted to be 100% sure you were going to pass, so you went out to practice the day before, or get another lesson or two, right before the checkride. The accelerated multi rating is like those last few days before you take your checkride. So, before you travel anywhere for an accelerated program, be almost ready to take your checkride BEFORE YOU GO!

I would suggest working with a local MEI if possible in the sim, and with "chair flying". Or at least someone that has a multi-rating. Become a skilled chair-flyer if you have not done that before (I had not learned that skill). And use the checklists in the packet to do the maneuvers while chair flying, and in the sim. Chair flying is probably better if I had to pick one. Using both chair and sim is better. Print out the instrument panel on poster size, hang it on the wall, and use the checklists to get good at executing them using the poster. Go above and beyond in the knowledge than what is in the packet. Do a deeper dive into each topic than what is in the packet. Download the airplane's service manual and read up on the hydraulics, gear / flaps system, and variable prop system. Watch YouTube videos about how the systems work.

If possible, it would be ideal to get there a couple days before you start training to get rested from the trip, if you had a long drive or flight. Get familiar with the airport, the buildings, where you go, who works there, who is hanging around. Because you do not have home field advantage. No one knows you there. You just want to be as comfortable as possible. Don't do any sight-seeing, going on, tourist stuff. Save that for after you pass. Prepare for long days, deep immersion into this. Be like Rocky training for a fight LOL

DM me your number, and I am happy to have a call with you and get more detailed. Typing is like work. Talking is a lot easier.
 
PilotDoctor said:
Tom is about 500% better than any instructor that I had in the past. And I have had a lot of instructors. I do not want to throw him under the bus publicly. There are a FEW small things I think he could do better. Mostly it was me, listening to "pilot talk" for ten years - people say the multi rating is SO EASY. So, I thought it would be easy. Do not listed to those people. Accelerated training is HARD. If anyone can get you trained in two days, it would be Tom. However, 2 day training is an EXTREMELY short amount of time for becoming a knowledgeable, proficient, and skilled multi-engine pilot.
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Sounds like that's more of a per pilot issue than an accurate blanket statement. The Apache is such a cakewalk to learn and fly in.

PilotDoctor said:
Here is an analogy - remember the last few days before you took a checkride in the past? You were 99.5% ready to take the checkride, right? You wanted to be 100% sure you were going to pass, so you went out to practice the day before, or get another lesson or two, right before the checkride. The accelerated multi rating is like those last few days before you take your checkride. So, before you travel anywhere for an accelerated program, be almost ready to take your checkride BEFORE YOU GO!
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No. That's not how it was for me. I got weathered out for a month before I could do the check ride. Then did the oral. Then had a weather discontinuance. Then waited almost the full 60 days to finish. Between the time I was signed off and the time I got in the plane for the check ride, I had about half an hour of flight time over almost 3 months.

PilotDoctor said:
I would suggest working with a local MEI if possible in the sim, and with "chair flying". Or at least someone that has a multi-rating. Become a skilled chair-flyer if you have not done that before (I had not learned that skill). And use the checklists in the packet to do the maneuvers while chair flying, and in the sim. Chair flying is probably better if I had to pick one. Using both chair and sim is better. Print out the instrument panel on poster size, hang it on the wall, and use the checklists to get good at executing them using the poster. Go above and beyond in the knowledge than what is in the packet. Do a deeper dive into each topic than what is in the packet. Download the airplane's service manual and read up on the hydraulics, gear / flaps system, and variable prop system. Watch YouTube videos about how the systems work.
Click to expand...

How much did you REALLY read the packet he sent you before hand? I got it probably 2 months prior to the ride and pretty much had it memorized before I walked in. What is/was your experience before going for the check ride? How much time did you have in singles the year prior to taking it? It sounds like you might have been lacking in proficiency in a single before you sat in the Apache.

PilotDoctor said:
If possible, it would be ideal to get there a couple days before you start training to get rested from the trip, if you had a long drive or flight. Get familiar with the airport, the buildings, where you go, who works there, who is hanging around. Because you do not have home field advantage. No one knows you there. You just want to be as comfortable as possible. Don't do any sight-seeing, going on, tourist stuff. Save that for after you pass. Prepare for long days, deep immersion into this. Be like Rocky training for a fight LOL

DM me your number, and I am happy to have a call with you and get more detailed. Typing is like work. Talking is a lot easier.
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I flew a Comanche in, and got there about an hour before we flew. Had lunch. Flew again. Stayed the night. Repeat.

This sounds more like a pilot specific problem because everyone I know that used Tom, or even used someone else besides Tom, breezed through their Multi.
 
This is too late for you, but reading the POH and knowing the aircraft’s systems before the first lesson starts is advisable for anyone getting training above their initial private pilot certificate. Also download the Airman Certification Standards for the rating and read them thoroughly, and read the ASA Oral Exam guide cover to cover. Making and using flashcards to study, and having someone quiz on them, is a big help, too.

If I was going for an accelerated rating, all of that would be done a month beforehand to find gaps in knowledge, and to allow time for appropriate training correcting it.

It takes a lot of effort, but when you do all of that, the oral part goes so much easier and sets up a better practical exam.
 
EdFred said:
Sounds like that's more of a per pilot issue than an accurate blanket statement. The Apache is such a cakewalk to learn and fly in.



No. That's not how it was for me. I got weathered out for a month before I could do the check ride. Then did the oral. Then had a weather discontinuance. Then waited almost the full 60 days to finish. Between the time I was signed off and the time I got in the plane for the check ride, I had about half an hour of flight time over almost 3 months.



How much did you REALLY read the packet he sent you before hand? I got it probably 2 months prior to the ride and pretty much had it memorized before I walked in. What is/was your experience before going for the check ride? How much time did you have in singles the year prior to taking it? It sounds like you might have been lacking in proficiency in a single before you sat in the Apache.



I flew a Comanche in, and got there about an hour before we flew. Had lunch. Flew again. Stayed the night. Repeat.

This sounds more like a pilot specific problem because everyone I know that used Tom, or even used someone else besides Tom, breezed through their Multi.
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Ok folks listen to Ed, he knows better than I how to pass. Just go up without preparation and they will give you the rating easy peasy!
 
PilotDoctor said:
Ok folks listen to Ed, he knows better than I how to pass. Just go up without preparation and they will give you the rating easy peasy!
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This is true. I passed on my first try.

Did you skip the whole part where I asked how prepared you were prior to going? How many hours did you have in the year prior? How proficient were you in singles before you got in the plane? How much of the packet did you have committed to memory when you showed up?

I'm guessing you skipped over that part just like you probably skipped over a lot of the info Tom sent you prior to your arrival.
 
EdFred said:
This is true. I passed on my first try.

Did you skip the whole part where I asked how prepared you were prior to going? How many hours did you have in the year prior? How proficient were you in singles before you got in the plane? How much of the packet did you have committed to memory when you showed up?

I'm guessing you skipped over that part just like you probably skipped over a lot of the info Tom sent you prior to your arrival.
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Remember the Red Baron? I think you are even more skilled than him. You are the Red While and Blue Baron!
 
EdFred said:
This is true. I passed on my first try.

Did you skip the whole part where I asked how prepared you were prior to going? How many hours did you have in the year prior? How proficient were you in singles before you got in the plane? How much of the packet did you have committed to memory when you showed up?

I'm guessing you skipped over that part just like you probably skipped over a lot of the info Tom sent you prior to your arrival.
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Did you not just berate me for telling people to prepare?
 
FWIW, I did my MEI add-on with Tom about 10 years ago, although I suspect not much has changed. There's accelerated training and then there's accelerated accelerated training. His program is the latter. You really need to front load a lot before showing up. Thankfully it hasn't been too long since I'd had flown some twins before hand so I had all my flows ready on day one. I also had a bit of an advantage in that my buddy was doing his seaplane rating with Tom at the same time, so he was bouncing back in forth between Cadillac (where the Geronimo is hangared) and his home in traverse city where his floatplane is docked.

I don't recall any lengthy conversations with him before showing up (he's a busy guy), but I think I'd read the gouge on him to show up as prepared as possible. For the MEI it really does require a fair amount of self study. The only thing that I wasn't completely prepared for in the check ride was the demonstration of a steep spiral descent; a maneuver that's not required when a MEI applicant already has airplane single engine on their flight instructor certificate. My bad for not being completely familiar with the PTS required tasks and Tom likely not realizing that my initial CFI certificate was a CFII. Nevertheless, I'd done them as a commercial applicant so I pulled it off to PTS standards with a passable instructional demonstration. His G-mo was no beauty queen but certainly got the job done. I can only imagine what the paint looks like these days.
 
EdFred said:
Flown like me.

I passed with Tom the first try.
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I passed on the first try with Tom as well. He does a great job of getting people over the finish line.

Ironically, during one of my last training flights, the morning of the checkride, I watched someone else fail their single-engine checkride with the same examiner because they crossed the hold short line when I was on final. I got ready to go around but didn't because they stopped. Plenty of room, and I couldn't tell where the line was from where I was.

As far as the multi training and ride, Kevin Paulding was the DPE and was fair and thorough. Tom's training is very much geared toward what he offers, which is a quick multi rating - He sends you a packet of information to study well in advance (as soon as you schedule, IIRC, and he schedules several months out). Read *and understand* the packet, and you should be well prepared. The flying portion is essentially a bunch of checkride type flights - Take off, maneuvers, engine failures, approaches, pattern work. However, each flight varies based on what is the particular focus of that flight - For example, the first flight might include more maneuvers and pattern work, the second might include more engine failures and restarts, and the third might include more approaches, but every flight includes all of the elements. It took about 7 hours over the course of two days including the checkride.

Of course, as with any checkride, you must be prepared. That means different things for different people. @PilotDoctor your username suggests that you are a doctor, and all the doctors I know are smart people but very busy and don't think about flying much. And if you have family obligations, even more (less) so. And most of the doctors I know would like their accelerated multi rating to include the ground school being firehose-fed to them in person with all other distractions (work, family) removed from the equation. That's not really how Tom works, IIRC he just asked a bunch of questions over lunch to ensure I had studied everything and had a handle on it.

Can you share what the exact failures were? Oral, or flight? What sort of retraining did you do, and how long did you go between checkrides? Was there anything that helped things click?

Also, now that you have the rating (or at least it sounds like you did succeed before posting?), remember the mantra: That which is quickly learned and not quickly exercised, is quickly forgotten. Hopefully you had a mission in mind when you got your rating, but don't go for a long time without doing more multi instruction and practice or the rating won't be worth the plastic it's printed on. For example, I know a couple of guys who did a 10-day accelerated instrument course, and they went and flew approaches together almost every weekend for months afterwards to help the lessons stick.
 
PilotDoctor said:
Here is an analogy - remember the last few days before you took a checkride in the past? You were 99.5% ready to take the checkride, right? You wanted to be 100% sure you were going to pass, so you went out to practice the day before, or get another lesson or two, right before the checkride. The accelerated multi rating is like those last few days before you take your checkride. So, before you travel anywhere for an accelerated program, be almost ready to take your checkride BEFORE YOU GO!
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I know the feeling and felt a similar level of unpreparedness leading up to my ride, but also, you don’t HAVE to take the checkride that quickly, if you need more time, you should be able to get it. The problem with these accelerated courses are that if you need more time, it pushes those behind you out. I wasn’t going to go into it feeling rushed, I needed some extra time to feel comfortable and feel confident I was going to pass on the first shot. I didn’t train at this place you did, but the same principle applies.
 
PilotDoctor said:
sorry this is my first day on this site. I figured no one would respond and I would have wasted a half hour of my life typing a post that no one would read
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Now you’ve spent (wasted?) half an hour responding to posts that take exception to your perspective or thoughts on your multi training or your on potential criticisms of the famous quarterback, uh instructor. What you saw as an opportunity to help others has turned into a critique of your experience. Probably the hint of critiquing the MEI may have sparked the pushback. Welcome to POI.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I passed on the first try with Tom as well. He does a great job of getting people over the finish line.
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Congrats!
flyingcheesehead said:
Ironically, during one of my last training flights, the morning of the checkride, I watched someone else fail their single-engine checkride with the same examiner because they crossed the hold short line when I was on final. I got ready to go around but didn't because they stopped. Plenty of room, and I couldn't tell where the line was from where I was.
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He had a brain fart - Of course he knew what a hold short line was. That is why I recommend an extra day of rest after traveling there. That was one of my fails was a similar type of brain fart. It was something I had done correctly 1000 times in the past. I believe if I had been rested up better, this would not have happened. It is an intense few days. Good job staying alert on your checkride and not letting his screw up be your screw up!
flyingcheesehead said:
As far as the multi training and ride, Kevin Paulding was the DPE and was fair and thorough. Tom's training is very much geared toward what he offers, which is a quick multi rating - He sends you a packet of information to study well in advance (as soon as you schedule, IIRC, and he schedules several months out). Read *and understand* the packet, and you should be well prepared. The flying portion is essentially a bunch of checkride type flights - Take off, maneuvers, engine failures, approaches, pattern work. However, each flight varies based on what is the particular focus of that flight - For example, the first flight might include more maneuvers and pattern work, the second might include more engine failures and restarts, and the third might include more approaches, but every flight includes all of the elements. It took about 7 hours over the course of two days including the checkride.
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flyingcheesehead said:
Of course, as with any checkride, you must be prepared. That means different things for different people.
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Exactly. My intention is to further define the word "prepare" as it would apply for this situation. I thought I was over-prepared when I got there. But I was under-prepared. If I would have thought a little bit more about why multi-engine time was so dang important to employers and insurance companies, I may have realized that all the people who said it was so easy may be bragging a bit. Why is multi time so important if it is so easy, and a "******** rating"? Yes it is a lot less quantity of work than getting a private or instrument rating, but that does not mean it is easy. Which is harder - ten calculus problems, or one calculus problem?
flyingcheesehead said:
@PilotDoctor your username suggests that you are a doctor, and all the doctors I know are smart people but very busy and don't think about flying much. And if you have family obligations, even more (less) so. And most of the doctors I know would like their accelerated multi rating to include the ground school being firehose-fed to them in person with all other distractions (work, family) removed from the equation. That's not really how Tom works, IIRC he just asked a bunch of questions over lunch to ensure I had studied everything and had a handle on it.

Can you share what the exact failures were? Oral, or flight? What sort of retraining did you do, and how long did you go between checkrides? Was there anything that helped things click?
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If you read the last sentence of my "advice" response for others, you can probably surmise what went wrong. My post was intended for those who do not yet have a multi rating, who are planning on going to an accelerated program to get it done. Feel free to DM me
flyingcheesehead said:
Also, now that you have the rating (or at least it sounds like you did succeed before posting?), remember the mantra: That which is quickly learned and not quickly exercised, is quickly forgotten. Hopefully you had a mission in mind when you got your rating, but don't go for a long time without doing more multi instruction and practice or the rating won't be worth the plastic it's printed on. For example, I know a couple of guys who did a 10-day accelerated instrument course, and they went and flew approaches together almost every weekend for months afterwards to help the lessons stick.
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yes, ultimately I did succeed in getting it done. And I went back to Tom to finish it. If I thought he was not a good instructor, I would have gone elsewhere. In fact, I really hope he writes a book before he dies, about what he learned while training multi-engine pilots. He has a very rare high level of experience level and massive knowledge that only comes from training thousands of multi students over many years. There are probably only a handful of people alive who share this knowledge. He knows every mistake you will make before you make it, and knows the perfect way to correct it.
 
TrueCourse said:
Now you’ve spent (wasted?) half an hour responding to posts that take exception to your perspective or thoughts on your multi training or your on potential criticisms of the famous quarterback, uh instructor. What you saw as an opportunity to help others has turned into a critique of your experience. Probably the hint of critiquing the MEI may have sparked the pushback. Welcome to POI.
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Lol and thanks!
 
PilotDoctor said:
He had a brain fart - Of course he knew what a hold short line was. That is why I recommend an extra day of rest after traveling there. That was one of my fails was a similar type of brain fart. It was something I had done correctly 1000 times in the past. I believe if I had been rested up better, this would not have happened. It is an intense few days.
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Plenty of rest is important for any flight, but doubly so for checkrides!

The experience did wear me out somewhat, I took a nap in my car on my way home. That was at least partly due to being in a different time zone and working on "normal people" hours instead of my normal night owl ways, though.
PilotDoctor said:
Exactly. My intention is to further define the word "prepare" as it would apply for this situation. I thought I was over-prepared when I got there. But I was under-prepared. If I would have thought a little bit more about why multi-engine time was so dang important to employers and insurance companies, I may have realized that all the people who said it was so easy may be bragging a bit. Why is multi time so important if it is so easy, and a "******** rating"? Yes it is a lot less quantity of work than getting a private or instrument rating, but that does not mean it is easy. Which is harder - ten calculus problems, or one calculus problem?
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The flying part is pretty easy. Keep control of the airplane, be able to fly it on one engine, and be able to restart a dead engine (probably the toughest part).

There is some more difficulty in the ground stuff, and the theory. Why is Vmc reduced when the gear is down, for example? Why is it a bad idea to have it down anyway for most of the time on an OEI flight? What are all of the other things that can affect Vmc? What is Vmc, and why is it important? What is Vyse and why is it important? All that stuff seems relatively straightforward once you know it, but may not be obvious to many people right away.
PilotDoctor said:
If you read the last sentence of my "advice" response for others, you can probably surmise what went wrong. My post was intended for those who do not yet have a multi rating, who are planning on going to an accelerated program to get it done. Feel free to DM me
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Some kind of runway/taxiway incursion issue? I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of beating around the bush here. It's far better for everyone else to learn from your mistakes if you just post it here. (If you want to read about how I failed my instrument ride, I've posted it on this forum multiple times...)
 
One brain fart can kill many people.

We all make mistakes as humans, but the consequences *could* be more than ugly.

But I doubt that anything to do with it being a quickie course.
 
@PilotDoctor based on your later comments noting that Tom is a great CFI, you might consider editing your first post - without any later context, it comes across very negatively on his operation. This guy is running a businesses. And based on his fees, he’s not getting rich.
 
Sam D said:
@PilotDoctor based on your later comments noting that Tom is a great CFI, you might consider editing your first post - without any later context, it comes across very negatively on his operation. This guy is running a businesses. And based on his fees, he’s not getting rich.
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i agree! I actually did not think anyone would see that post. I am new here and it looked like most posts were from 20 years ago. The brevity of the posts comes across negative. I tried to delete it a few times but I cannot find any way to delete it or edit it
 
PilotDoctor said:
i agree! I actually did not think anyone would see that post. I am new here and it looked like most posts were from 20 years ago. The brevity of the posts comes across negative. I tried to delete it a few times but I cannot find any way to delete it or edit it
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My beef is mostly with the hundreds of pilots that say the multi engine rating is EASY! Which lead my being less prepared than i should have been. My only criticism with Tom is that the packet is not complete. That is why I suggested a people take a deeper dive into the topics, than solely rely on the packet for all the info needed to pass
 
Kritchlow said:
One brain fart can kill many people.

We all make mistakes as humans, but the consequences *could* be more than ugly.

But I doubt that anything to do with it being a quickie course.
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Yes we make them, and that is why we get nervous on checkrides. Because we know the ole brain can fart at anytime. And yes that is bad. The FAA is justified in failing a fart. Speaking of farts tho, the Red Sox stink
 
PilotDoctor said:
My beef is mostly with the hundreds of pilots that say the multi engine rating is EASY! Which lead my being less prepared than i should have been. My only criticism with Tom is that the packet is not complete. That is why I suggested a people take a deeper dive into the topics, than solely rely on the packet for all the info needed to pass
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it WAS easy for me because I was prepared. it WAS easy for lots and lots of other folks, because they were prepared. it sounds like you are blaming other pilots for your unpreparedness, which is pretty solid. just because you weren't prepared and are blaming everyone else except yourself for your failures doesn't mean I shouldn't state it was easy for me. because it was.
 
Did my multi with Tom in 2015. Great instructor and operation. You’ll nail the checkride next time
 
eman1200 said:
it WAS easy for me because I was prepared. it WAS easy for lots and lots of other folks, because they were prepared. it sounds like you are blaming other pilots for your unpreparedness, which is pretty solid. just because you weren't prepared and are blaming everyone else except yourself for your failures doesn't mean I shouldn't state it was easy for me. because it was.
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That is why I say you are the Red-White-and-Blue Baron! You are probably the illegitimate offspring of Chuck Yeager and Amelia Earhart. But I did not make this post for you, obviously, I posted this for the 20% who will not pass on the first try. One more week and I will probably forgot all about it and move on to other things
 
It was easy for me, but I purposely didn’t do an accelerated program. I needed a full ground and 10 or 12 in the plane.

I am considering doing an accelerated CFI this fall, but to be fair, I’ve started preparing about 2 months ago.
 
I signed up for a non accelerated Comm, Inst, and Multi training course. The training started with mixed Comm and Inst.

A month in, there was an opportunity for my first Multi flight , and I took it. It was a high density altitude day, and a student and instructor were on another airport with an unairworthy plane, they were heavy enough the twin was required to bring them back. After a suitable brief of the primary concerns of taking off in a twin, we departed. At 2,000 feet we turned on course for the destination, and I trimmed everything out at cruise power. The instructor pulled the mixture on one engine, and started explaining the proper response to engine failure. He then told me to do each step in order, and I replied that I was finished. He did not believe me, and requested that I remove my hands and feet from the controls, and the plane remained on altitude and course. "How did you get that done so fast?"

I had read the aircraft manual cover to cover. I had read the entire syllabus, taken the tests, and found the correct answers for all that I had missed. I had read the FAA information on the checkride requirements, and researched the information that confused me. His comment was "You are going to be a good student." I considered that level of preparation normal for any step of my flying training.

He was wrong, as by the time I had finished the Comm and Inst, I had figured out that the advantages of flying multiengine planes increased cost much more than increased speed, and singles had the carrying capacity that I needed.

I passed every written, oral, and flight test, first time, PPL, COMM, INST.

Taking an accelerated course, I would have done all that BEFORE reading the course materials, as such courses sometimes leave out the items that are unlikely to be tested in a check ride.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Some kind of runway/taxiway incursion issue? I'm not sure what you're hoping to get out of beating around the bush here. It's far better for everyone else to learn from your mistakes if you just post it here. (If you want to read about how I failed my instrument ride, I've posted it on this forum multiple times...)
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No, oops, I meant the paragraph before that. And because of hostile cancel-culture type of people on here. They really got upset over this post. They may call my employer or potential employer or something, and throw me under the bus. I posted the original post for those who do not have a multi yet, who are thinking about getting a multi. I figured I would talk on them on the phone and fill them in with all the details of how to get it done on the first try. Based on what I now know after doing accelerated multi training. Unfortunately this has turned into a "no good deed goes unpunished" situation
 
PilotDoctor said:
My only criticism with Tom is that the packet is not complete.
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MauleSkinner said:
What was the packet missing?
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That was my question too.

One thing to note is that I remember Ron Levy's old mantra that on a checkride, you may be tested on anything you learned from Kindergarten up through today. Just because it's a multi add-on ride doesn't mean the examiner can't ask you a question about an instrument approach plate for example. So, I'm wondering if there was maybe something missed in earlier training.
 
Not really on topic but I remember my first flight in a twin. I was working on commercial single and was invited by my CFI to sit back seat in a Seminole during his other students lesson. They did a bunch of engine out stuff and I thought there was no way I’d ever attempt a ME add on. 3 months later I had my single and signed on for the week long AMEL course. It was a blast.
 
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