Training Question

[Lawreston]

OK, so I have the new(to me) 1975 C-150M, and I need to get what should be my last 90-day Student endorsement(not being, presently, current). A friend flew the bird for tie-down to a different airport where instruction will occur.

I have a total of 134 hours(combined dual and solo), have completed all the flight requirements(except for the 3.0 dual needed within 60 days prior to checkride), and had been signed off for a bunch of airports. I haven't taken the Written yet because I 'd planned to schedule the Written quite close to checkride so as to be UP for the oral.
I've left-seated the bird with a rated pilot in the right seat. "It won't be long, now, before your checkride," said he.

The new CFI has said that he won't sign me off for solo until I've completed the Written. Also, the airports I regularly visited,solo, mean nothing until, "I say so." Additionally, my plan was to get re-currency, move the bird to my original home base and commute the 17nm for lessons. "No, can't do that. It's gravel over turf and if something should happen it would be on my certificate." The fact that I probably have more landings and T-O at said location than any of the 35 planes at the new airport seemed to have no bearing.

The airport manager(not the FBO) drove by while I was polishing/waxing. He's an instructor, etc. I mentioned it to him and his comment was, "You have other options; I don't want to get into a contest with the FBO, but..................remember, you're the employer, not the employee."

POA opinions? My first session with the new CFI is Sunday at 0800.

HR

 

[wsuffa]

Well, you DO have other options, BUT.... if he is a really good instructor, and if you are close to checkride, then I would accept the restrictions and go get the license finished up.

If you're close, knocking off the written is a thing to do now... get it done... it will be incentive to get the rest of the flying done for the practical.

Having an incentrive is not a bad thing.

And he is right, it's on his ticket. HE has incentive to get you finished up and signed off.

 

[T Bone]

As a newly certificated pilot, my opinion may be of limited value, but it is that this guy sounds like he intends to put you through a rather rigorous couse of instruction/flight checks to cover his butt (or maybe to ensure he is turning out a skilled pilot). Personnaly, I'd go with a different instructor if I were you. If you've got any problem areas, at 134 hours you should know about them. Being honest with yourself, if you do, get specific instruction in that area. If you don't go get the license already! (It is after all a license to learn, you will NOT "know it all" just because you have a license. Overall, it sounds like it'll take longer to get trhough with this guy. It may be that he's concerned with quality, then again it may be dollars (he wouldn't be the first instructor to drag out training for the hours/dollars generated). Bottom line, you're questioning it, which means the thought to switch has occurred to you. So do it! There are always other options.

As to the test, I agree it's time to get it out of the way (though it is in NO way a prerequisite to solo)!

There's my pennies worth. I gotta go. Plane's a'waitin'! B)

 

[Lawreston]

Well, you DO have other options, BUT.... if he is a really good instructor, and if you are close to checkride, then I would accept the restrictions and go get the license finished up.

If you're close, knocking off the written is a thing to do now... get it done... it will be incentive to get the rest of the flying done for the practical.

Having an incentrive is not a bad thing.

And he is right, it's on his ticket. HE has incentive to get you finished up and signed off.

Thanks, Bill. I've been re-devouring my John and Martha CDs and doing various practice tests for prep. for the written. The CFI also wants me to take a full(simulated) written test before he'll sign me off to take the real deal. The FAA Examiner(friend of mine) who right-seated for me(as previously referenced) said, "Except for the 3.0 pre-ride hours I'd sign you off now; but I can't do that because I might get assigned to do your checkride. And that's why I can't sign your Logbook for this flight. But I think he's going a bit overboard on restoring your solo endorsement."

HR

 

[fgcason]

Can you continue with the current CFI to the checkride? If so IMO finish up then clean up the details. From what I've seen, if you change CFI's, you have to go through the hoops again, abbreviated hoops since you know things already, but you have to reprove yourself again to the new guy and that takes time. If it were me and being 3 hrs give or take a few from the checkride, unless it was something unforgiveable (dangerous, really stupid, etc) I'd forget the CFI change and convinent airport. Spend the next two weeks knocking the written out, get the checkride behind you and fly home or to any other airport of your choice. Then if you want to, grab another CFI and refine the details. (FWIW: I actually did something very similar with my instructor. He just wasn't doing some things I cared for. It was more than adequate instruction for the ride but not what I wanted or expected. So I got the checkride behind me and had other pilots/instructors help me clean up the little details. OTOH I could have changed instructors and gone through another 30 hours but that would have been a waste of time/effort at that point in the program)

The new CFI's right to some extent. I guess the written then solo thing is something he prefers (unless there's a rule for that nowadays). He is on the carpet if you ball it up, but I don't see what gravel/turf has to do with it. Then again, I grew up on grass runways and think concrete is more dangerous.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

The new CFI has said that he won't sign me off for solo until I've completed the Written. Also, the airports I regularly visited,solo, mean nothing until, "I say so." Additionally, my plan was to get re-currency, move the bird to my original home base and commute the 17nm for lessons. "No, can't do that. It's gravel over turf and if something should happen it would be on my certificate." The fact that I probably have more landings and T-O at said location than any of the 35 planes at the new airport seemed to have no bearing.

About all I can say about this instructor is that he is being overly conservative. I guess that is his perogative. Bottom line, I guess, is do YOU feel comfortable with HIM?

The airport manager(not the FBO) drove by while I was polishing/waxing. He's an instructor, etc. I mentioned it to him and his comment was, "You have other options; I don't want to get into a contest with the FBO, but..................remember, you're the employer, not the employee."

Very true. You do have other options. It is the quality of the options that will ultimately drive your decision.

POA opinions? My first session with the new CFI is Sunday at 0800.

HR

Fly with the guy. If you like him, it might be worth jumping through the hoops. If you don't, well, it might just be worth finding another instructor, even if it is a bit less convenient.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

Fly with the guy. If you like him, it might be worth jumping through the hoops. If you don't, well, it might just be worth finding another instructor, even if it is a bit less convenient.

First, take the written already! If you have one of the home-study courses, they usually come with a certificate that you basically self-certify that you've completed it, and most CFIs wouldn't have a problem signing you off for the written after a 10-15 minute Q&A just to check that you really did study.

I agree with Greg - just fly with the guy for an hour to see what the chemistry is like. After the flight, if you like him, ask the CFI to come up with a specific plan that he'd want to complete before signing you off. If he thinks you're a good pilot, it shouldn't be too onerous. If he sees weaknesses discuss them with him, maybe he's seeing things the other instructor missed, which is valuable to know whether you go with him or not.

Jeff

 

[sere]

OK, so I have the new(to me) 1975 C-150M, and I need to get what should be my last 90-day Student endorsement(not being, presently, current). A friend flew the bird for tie-down to a different airport where instruction will occur.

I have a total of 134 hours(combined dual and solo), have completed all the flight requirements(except for the 3.0 dual needed within 60 days prior to checkride), and had been signed off for a bunch of airports. I haven't taken the Written yet because I 'd planned to schedule the Written quite close to checkride so as to be UP for the oral.
I've left-seated the bird with a rated pilot in the right seat. "It won't be long, now, before your checkride," said he.

The new CFI has said that he won't sign me off for solo until I've completed the Written. Also, the airports I regularly visited,solo, mean nothing until, "I say so." Additionally, my plan was to get re-currency, move the bird to my original home base and commute the 17nm for lessons. "No, can't do that. It's gravel over turf and if something should happen it would be on my certificate." The fact that I probably have more landings and T-O at said location than any of the 35 planes at the new airport seemed to have no bearing.

The airport manager(not the FBO) drove by while I was polishing/waxing. He's an instructor, etc. I mentioned it to him and his comment was, "You have other options; I don't want to get into a contest with the FBO, but..................remember, you're the employer, not the employee."

POA opinions? My first session with the new CFI is Sunday at 0800.

HR

As far as changing CFI you have already received a lot of good suggestions. But I do agree you need to go ahead and finish your written either way. I would lean towards if I like and respect this CFI or not.

 

[poadeleted3]

Well, on the one hand, you are the customer. If the CFI isn't willing to provide you the service you wish, you can always move on. There's got to be a level of trust between the two of you.

OTOH, especially with regards to flying from your home field, you DO have a crash on your record. If I were the CFI, I would certainly want to make sure that I could show I'd taken extra care to prevent a recurrence. Both to protect my certificate, and to protect my student.

 

[Dean]

I must agree also, fly with the new instructor and see how it goes. I had to change instructors about 2/3 way through my training. The first instructor left to fly for an airline and we had a new guy come in and take over a lot of his students. I picked up a lot from the new instructor that the first instructor missed or skipped. But by all means, get the written out of the way. After I took it, it made the flying that much more enjoyable.

 

[wsuffa]

Thanks, Bill. I've been re-devouring my John and Martha CDs and doing various practice tests for prep. for the written. The CFI also wants me to take a full(simulated) written test before he'll sign me off to take the real deal.
HR

Nothing wrong with that. When I did my PP, my instructor wanted the printout from the Gleim computer program to show that I'd correctly answered each question at least once, and a printout of one sample exam (passed). He's just making sure you're ready.

The FAA Examiner(friend of mine) who right-seated for me(as previously referenced) said, "Except for the 3.0 pre-ride hours I'd sign you off now; but I can't do that because I might get assigned to do your checkride. And that's why I can't sign your Logbook for this flight. But I think he's going a bit overboard on restoring your solo endorsement."

Maybe the CFI is afraid that you'll be the perpetual student. Over 125 hours of training without passing the checkride might raise questions in my mind if I were a CFI.

The best instruction I got was from a guy who held to strict standards. I'd rather have it that way. But it's got to be a good match with your learning style.

I'd just take the challenge and get it done.... but that's me.

 

[Henning]

OK, so I have the new(to me) 1975 C-150M, and I need to get what should be my last 90-day Student endorsement(not being, presently, current). A friend flew the bird for tie-down to a different airport where instruction will occur.

I have a total of 134 hours(combined dual and solo), have completed all the flight requirements(except for the 3.0 dual needed within 60 days prior to checkride), and had been signed off for a bunch of airports. I haven't taken the Written yet because I 'd planned to schedule the Written quite close to checkride so as to be UP for the oral.
I've left-seated the bird with a rated pilot in the right seat. "It won't be long, now, before your checkride," said he.

The new CFI has said that he won't sign me off for solo until I've completed the Written. Also, the airports I regularly visited,solo, mean nothing until, "I say so." Additionally, my plan was to get re-currency, move the bird to my original home base and commute the 17nm for lessons. "No, can't do that. It's gravel over turf and if something should happen it would be on my certificate." The fact that I probably have more landings and T-O at said location than any of the 35 planes at the new airport seemed to have no bearing.

The airport manager(not the FBO) drove by while I was polishing/waxing. He's an instructor, etc. I mentioned it to him and his comment was, "You have other options; I don't want to get into a contest with the FBO, but..................remember, you're the employer, not the employee."

POA opinions? My first session with the new CFI is Sunday at 0800.

HR

Definitely keep you session with this instructor as another opinion and source, but don't lock out the old. The most likely reason he is doing what he is doing is to force you to take the dang written so you can take the checkride ASAP and do all of your shinanigans on your own license, rather than his solo endorsement. In other words he's sayin "**** or get off the Pot, Status Quo has come to an end". If you have 135hrs, you should have your own license, and I think he is going to force you kicking and screaming to get it.(I know, I've done it to people before) You are one week away from your check ride and your own license if you pass the written tommorrow, so get it done, no excuses.

 

[WrongWay]

WW, when I was working on my PPL the CFIs in this area didn't allow solo flights of any kind without passing the written. It seems to be a common theme (again here in the midwest). So as someone who also had lots of hours & multiple instructors before I finished i'll agree with the others...finish your written, take the flight & see how you get along with the new CFI. Everytime I lost a CFI to a new job it added several hours more flight time while the new one learned what I was good at & what needed work.

 

[azure]

Harley, I did something like what you're doing, sat on taking the written until very close to my checkride. It was a bad idea, in hindsight, putting it off so long, since I started to get a bad case of test anxiety over it and came VERY close to becoming a perpetual student (I think I logged more hours as a student pilot than probably anyone else here). My CFI didn't pull anything like your new one is doing to get me off my behind, but he probably should have. So my very partial advice is to get the written over with, ASAP, regardless of whether you stick with the new CFI. If the King PPL course is anything like their Instrument, you should have at least 3 practice exams to choose from, just do one and show it to him, if he wants to pick the questions himself then just send it off to John & Martha and get their signoff for the written.

As to whether to finish up with this new CFI, I think you'll have a better idea after 0800 tomorrow. Fly with him and then decide. Trust your gut.

Liz

 

[Dean]

I have known several people who have taken flight lessons and met all the requirements, then chickened out on the check ride. Sounds like to me that you are ready, so jumpin, the waters fine. I was at 46 hrs and my instructor told me I was ready, but I did'nt think so. He scheduled my checkride and told me we were doing a cross country, when we landed he introduced me to the DE. If he had'nt done that I would most likely have been a 100hr student.

 

[Lawreston]

Can you continue with the current CFI to the checkride? If so IMO finish up then clean up the details. From what I've seen, if you change CFI's, you have to go through the hoops again, abbreviated hoops since you know things already, but you have to reprove yourself again to the new guy and that takes time. If it were me and being 3 hrs give or take a few from the checkride, unless it was something unforgiveable (dangerous, really stupid, etc) I'd forget the CFI change and convinent airport. Spend the next two weeks knocking the written out, get the checkride behind you and fly home or to any other airport of your choice. Then if you want to, grab another CFI and refine the details. (FWIW: I actually did something very similar with my instructor. He just wasn't doing some things I cared for. It was more than adequate instruction for the ride but not what I wanted or expected. So I got the checkride behind me and had other pilots/instructors help me clean up the little details. OTOH I could have changed instructors and gone through another 30 hours but that would have been a waste of time/effort at that point in the program)

I don't have a current instructor. He was the one ready to sign me off for the checkride as soon as the 5.0 hours solo and the Written were completed. But he got transferred to Minnesota to a commercial flying job. I had been passed to him when my USN Lieutenant CFI got transferred from NAS Brunswick to Virginia by way of Sigonella/Sicily, Italy deployment. And I got with the Lieutenant after the previous instructor followed his National Guard(Bangor) unit to Iraq where he flew Blackhawk(s) for a year. The bulk of my solo hours were while running out the 90 day clock with CFI(du jour) out of the country, and other instructors not available. I have a secondary(not FAA-legal) flight log which has about another hundred hours of left-seat time but I couldn't officially log them because the right-seaters were not CFI. I was getting the left seat experience while my above-referenced instructors were doing their overseas-for-America tour(s).

The new CFI's right to some extent. I guess the written then solo thing is something he prefers (unless there's a rule for that nowadays). He is on the carpet if you ball it up, but I don't see what gravel/turf has to do with it. Then again, I grew up on grass runways and think concrete is more dangerous.

The new CFI is quite young, has only been at the FBO for less than a year, and knows me only from my walk-in visits to the rest of the facility where I had previously been based.

HR

 

[T Bone]

I have a secondary(not FAA-legal) flight log which has about another hundred hours of left-seat time but I couldn't officially log them because the right-seaters were not CFI.

So in essence, you're a 230 hour (student) pilot, own an airplane, and currently have no solo endoresment? My advice.....

1. Take the written. 70 will pass, are you confident you will do better? Online at Sporty's, you can take a practice test from the real questions and documents. Should give you a good idea how you'll do. You can take as many as you like, and they are free. Feels just like the real thing. Builds much confidence.

The Gleim test prep book is inexpennsive and excellent. About $15, studied it for a week to bring up my scores, took 4 printed Sporty's tests to an instructor I'd only spoken to on the phone. She signed me off, I took the test and got 97%. The next week, I started flight training.....


2. Get the license already! Hey, learning is great, time with a competent CFI can never hurt you, but.... you should be there by now! You need to get with a CFI who will give you the 3 hours of test prep and sign you off for the ride. This is entirely realistic. Those 3 hours are usually a review of the things you'll cover on the ride anyway. Steep turns, stalls, crosswind landings, shorts and softs, navigation. All the basics. Again, you don't need to be perfect!

3 hours and the solo endorsement to get you to the place for the check ride.
Or, you can go through 10 hours (or more) dual with someone who wants you to learn the nuances of their way of doing things....

I'm thinkin' it's time to get it done! Hey, I don't know you. But I've read your posts and you seem to be an intelligent individual. So let me end by asking.... do you think you are ready for the check ride?

 

[gismo]

While it shouldn't e a requirement for solo, it's definitely time for you to take the written. Don't worry about timing it so you are prepared for the oral as the two are quite different anyway. Perhaps the new CFI was just trying to motivate you to do the written when he said you have to do that before soloing again.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

The most likely reason he is doing what he is doing is to force you to take the dang written so you can take the checkride ASAP and do all of your shinanigans on your own license, rather than his solo endorsement. In other words he's sayin "**** or get off the Pot, Status Quo has come to an end". If you have 135hrs, you should have your own license, and I think he is going to force you kicking and screaming to get it.(I know, I've done it to people before) You are one week away from your check ride and your own license if you pass the written tommorrow, so get it done, no excuses.

Yeah. What Henning wrote.

Harley, if you read your story and look at your flight time the average CFI sees two possibilities:

1. Pilot with no potential passengers or possibly skating the system and taking passengers when the CFI isn't looking, who sees no reason to finish because with a solo sign-off s/he can do whatever she wants to do anyhow.

2. Pilot who believes s/he can't pass the test, for whatever personal reason, and therefor will never push her/himself to finish.

Frankly, I've known you for years from this webboard so I wouldn't be worried about taking you as a student, but if you walked up to me as a stranger and asked me to finish your PVT certificate I'd probably either pass on the whole deal or I would throw down the same rules as the CFI you described because frankly you'd set off my personal liability alarms.

Well, the above isn't exactly true. I wouldn't tell you no solo until you complete the written, I'd tell you no flying, even dual, until you finish the written.

As Henning said, time to finish or fold.

 

[Carol]

.....

POA opinions? My first session with the new CFI is Sunday at 0800.

HR

Well, it's now 0830 so you are out flying with the guy by now.

A lot of folks don't know what's been going on with you. You were | | this close to your checkride when the 172 flipped and you walked away from it. Time has passed and you now have another plane and are ready to complete the process. But (I am thinking) the CFI is seeing mainly the part about all your hours and no checkride. He's wondering if he's going to have to start completely over with you. And he's covering his 6. He may not know that you have so many hours because you were running your own business working 6+ days a week, CFI scheduling was not the best, etc.

Check him out. Let him see your skills. Take the written and get it out of the way. You can get another CFI if you think he's dragging things out too long. I can see him wanting you to demonstrate skills what with him being a fresh CFI and you being away from the left seat for a while. But I wouldn't let it go on and on just because of him.

 

[bbchien]

A lot of folks don't know what's been going on with you. You were | | this close to your checkride when the 172 flipped and you walked away from it. Time has passed and you now have another plane and are ready to complete the process. But (I am thinking) the CFI is seeing mainly the part about all your hours and no checkride. He's wondering if he's going to have to start completely over with you. And he's covering his 6.

Carol's right.
JC just finish it up. Do whatever it takes.

 

[Lawreston]

Well, it's now 0830 so you are out flying with the guy by now.

A lot of folks don't know what's been going on with you. You were | | this close to your checkride when the 172 flipped and you walked away from it. Time has passed and you now have another plane and are ready to complete the process. But (I am thinking) the CFI is seeing mainly the part about all your hours and no checkride. He's wondering if he's going to have to start completely over with you. And he's covering his 6. He may not know that you have so many hours because you were running your own business working 6+ days a week, CFI scheduling was not the best, etc.

Check him out. Let him see your skills. Take the written and get it out of the way. You can get another CFI if you think he's dragging things out too long. I can see him wanting you to demonstrate skills what with him being a fresh CFI and you being away from the left seat for a while. But I wouldn't let it go on and on just because of him.

I am absolutelybeat! Nine hours at the plane, today. Oh, one hour was in the flying. If I never see another hour of slow flight, steep turns right and left, steep turns left and right while in slow flight; and bunches of other stuff, it'll be too soon. )
And working without side-tone, and low-volume intercom(for unknown reason)[with my hearing problem] in first flight with a new CFI; notwithstanding that some controls, radio, cockpit spacing, seating(no adjustable pilot's seat) being different from the Skyhawk, it was interesting.
And anyone on 122.8 must figure I'm a blithering idiot. Skyhawk 787... is so indelible in my mind it was hard to migrate to Cessna 66148 until after a few radio calls.

He doesn't talk much. "Do such and such; now do ..........."
Although he did inquire, "You had completed all the required flight times, hadn't you, except for check ride prep hours?"

And he didn't run away, screaming, after we tied-down. Monday: 10:00am; Wednesday: 1:00pm. And Ben(A&P) should be working on the intercom problem.

Oh, the other eight hours? Can you spell Turtle Wax Buffing Compound? Wash Wax-All? Belly cleaning? Belly cleaning is hard on my back; especially, working without a creeper on the pavement. Just the wings(top and bottom) remain to be done. Lookin' guud.

Not far from my tie-down is hangared a spectacular-looking RV-7(or is it a 7A?). I commented to John(owner) what a great polish and wax job.
"Can't do that for quite some time. The plane is only three weeks old."
It is gorgeous. And while I was being Mr. Clean the helicopter came nearby several times. Must have been a slow day for surgery. Ken Wolf, my AME, ophthalmologist, hovered, set her down, shut down and got the wheels and we push/pulled her into his hangar. His Mitsubishi MU-2 is in Portland for its 100 hour check. It was in the 80s here today.

HR

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I prefer the FAA written is done and all deficiences corrected to 100% before I solo anybody except, maybe, a supervised solo in the pattern if they've just got to feel that milestone pass by.

But a REAL solo, out on your own, flying to some other ARPT, you've got to be able to everything if the flight's gonna be reasonably safe. There ain't no other pilot there but you, so you should know all the available stuff... it just makes sense.

OK, so I have the new(to me) 1975 C-150M, and I need to get what should be my last 90-day Student endorsement(not being, presently, current). A friend flew the bird for tie-down to a different airport where instruction will occur.

I have a total of 134 hours(combined dual and solo), have completed all the flight requirements(except for the 3.0 dual needed within 60 days prior to checkride), and had been signed off for a bunch of airports. I haven't taken the Written yet because I 'd planned to schedule the Written quite close to checkride so as to be UP for the oral.
I've left-seated the bird with a rated pilot in the right seat. "It won't be long, now, before your checkride," said he.

The new CFI has said that he won't sign me off for solo until I've completed the Written. Also, the airports I regularly visited,solo, mean nothing until, "I say so." Additionally, my plan was to get re-currency, move the bird to my original home base and commute the 17nm for lessons. "No, can't do that. It's gravel over turf and if something should happen it would be on my certificate." The fact that I probably have more landings and T-O at said location than any of the 35 planes at the new airport seemed to have no bearing.

The airport manager(not the FBO) drove by while I was polishing/waxing. He's an instructor, etc. I mentioned it to him and his comment was, "You have other options; I don't want to get into a contest with the FBO, but..................remember, you're the employer, not the employee."

POA opinions? My first session with the new CFI is Sunday at 0800.

HR

 

[Lawreston]

My new instructor:

He doesn't talk much. "Do such and such; now do ..........."
Although he did inquire, "You had completed all the required flight times, hadn't you, except for check ride prep hours?"

And he didn't run away, screaming, after we tied-down.

The following day we were rained out of the scheduled flight #2; and we did flight #2 today. Stalls of all types; Emergencies, with landings at Oxford. I'd never seen Oxford Plains Speedway(NASCAR) from the air. Touch & go(s) at the home base. And the magic words: "You'd alresdy completed the required flight times, so what we need to do is drill the maneuvers and set you up for the check ride."

HR

 

[Ed Guthrie]

The following day we were rained out of the scheduled flight #2; and we did flight #2 today. Stalls of all types; Emergencies, with landings at Oxford. I'd never seen Oxford Plains Speedway(NASCAR) from the air. Touch & go(s) at the home base. And the magic words: "You'd alresdy completed the required flight times, so what we need to do is drill the maneuvers and set you up for the check ride."

Way to go! With all the flying you've done during the delays in your training I would bet heavily that you could pass the checkride tomorrow. It appears that your new CFI is rapidly warming to the same conclusion.

BTW, how goes the knowledge test prep?

 

[Lawreston]

Way to go! With all the flying you've done during the delays in your training I would bet heavily that you could pass the checkride tomorrow. It appears that your new CFI is rapidly warming to the same conclusion.

BTW, how goes the knowledge test prep?

Martha needs to change her outfit, occasionally.
(Going pretty well)