Traffic pattern question

[EdFred]

If you're coming from a direction on the opposite side of the airfield as the pattern, once you cross over the field you'll have to reverse your course to pick up the 45. At some point prior to reversing your course, the runway and any pattern traffic will be behind you as you maneuver to get on the 45 headed back to the airfield.

If you're approaching the airfield from the same side as the pattern, you are correct in thinking that everything is in front of you as you enter via a 45. That's why Ed said he only enters via a 45 if he happens to be approaching the airfield conveniently aligned for the 45.

This.

That's not the only option. If you're on the opposite side, why not enter an upwind leg, then enter crosswind?

You have even more time to observe the pattern.

This.

I agree and that's often how I enter the pattern. I was just trying to clarify EdFred's post.

This.

Here's what I tend to do (assuming left traffic and no terrain issues):

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Here's what I tend to do (assuming left traffic and no terrain issues):

I, on the udder hand, tend to try for the traditonal 45 entry most of the time - but it often involves flying around for a while to get to a reasonable place to do the entry.

Except.

Except for at home at ONZ. Then I never enter downwind from a 45 because there is no way to do that without penetrating the no-fly-zone to the east (Canada). Some people try to do a "45" and end up doing circles at TPA right in the middle of where most people fly the downwind leg.. Others just seem to ignore the border. Which would be legal if they were in contact with ATC, had the appropriate transponder code, had a medical, etc., but I'm willing to bet...

 

[Teller1900]

Here's what I tend to do (assuming left traffic and no terrain issues):

That's a great illustration, Ed. I'd say that's almost exactly what I do, with the exception of the top two blocks, I'd tend to maneuver to cross overhead at midfield and join on the downwind. But I'm also usually flying a plane that makes hellaciously wide turns, and is rather difficult to sequence behind the average piston single. The sooner we can get into the pattern and get on the runway, and the fewer turns we have to make doing it, the better and safer for everyone.

 

[Witmo]

Here's what I tend to do (assuming left traffic and no terrain issues):

Very nice depiction and I have to say I've evolved into doing this very thing. At first, starting out, it was always a 45 no matter what. In over 2000 hours of flying, I've determined that expeditiously getting down on the ground without interfering with people in the pattern is probably safer than maneuvering excessively around an airfield always entering on a 45.

 

[Rndmtrvlr]

This.



This.



This.

Here's what I tend to do (assuming left traffic and no terrain issues):

This.

 

[dmccormack]

Here's what I tend to do (assuming left traffic and no terrain issues):

Is the arrow your flight path?

I'm not seeing the proscription here?

 

[EdFred]

Is the arrow your flight path?

I'm not seeing the proscription here?

Yes, I always land down wind.

 

[dmccormack]

Yes, I always land down wind.

Consistently helpful, as always...

 

[EdFred]

Wind is blowing left to right . You would be landing right to left. Hence the big purple trianglezoid showing the area where you would make straight in. The black strip in the middle is the runway.

Edit: don't post and work

 

[jesse]

Wind is blowing right to left. You would be landing left to right. Hence the big purple trianglezoid showing the area where you would make straight in. The black strip in the middle is the runway.

I figured it out in about 2 seconds and will print and use for instruction. Thanks.

 

[Steve]

Wind is blowing right to left. You would be landing left to right. Hence the big purple trianglezoid showing the area where you would make straight in. The black strip in the middle is the runway.

could you explain it in simpler terms please....






that pretty much works for me in no traffic conditions which is what i see probably 90% of the time at non-towered airports

still have to watch for less observant drivers assuming total possession of the pattern

 

[Palmpilot]

Wind is blowing right to left. You would be landing left to right. Hence the big purple trianglezoid showing the area where you would make straight in. The black strip in the middle is the runway.

Are you looking at your monitor in a mirror? Mine shows the wind arrow pointing from left to right.

 

[Rndmtrvlr]

Are you looking at your monitor in a mirror? Mine shows the wind arrow pointing from left to right.

Works either way. As long as you plan to land upwind.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Here's what I tend to do (assuming left traffic and no terrain issues):

Wind is blowing right to left. You would be landing left to right. Hence the big purple trianglezoid showing the area where you would make straight in. The black strip in the middle is the runway.

As viewed from the other side of the screen...

 

[dmccormack]

Wind is blowing right to left. You would be landing left to right. Hence the big purple trianglezoid showing the area where you would make straight in. The black strip in the middle is the runway.

OK, but how does this demonstrate pattern entry?

I get the pattern leg names. duh.

 

[EdFred]

OK, but how does this demonstrate pattern entry?

I get the pattern leg names. duh.

When coming from thqt sector that's the type of entry I make. You seriously couldn't understand that with me saying I tend to DO this....wow.

 

[EdFred]

Are you looking at your monitor in a mirror? Mine shows the wind arrow pointing from left to right.

Gah...that's what I get for replying while working. Wind blows with the arrow.

 

[dmccormack]

When coming from thqt sector that's the type of entry I make. You seriously couldn't understand that with me saying I tend to DO this....wow.

uummmmm.. ok.



I guess that was so obvious I was looking for something more -- revelatory..?

 

[EdFred]

uummmmm.. ok.



I guess that was so obvious I was looking for something more -- revelatory..?

A student pilot had trouble understanding what I said, so I posted a picture.

 

[BellyUpFish]

I figured it out in about 2 seconds and will print and use for instruction. Thanks.

It's only difficult to understand if you make it so.. I too understood it near instantly.

 

[Teller1900]

...I've determined that expeditiously getting down on the ground without interfering with people in the pattern is probably safer than maneuvering excessively around an airfield always entering on a 45.

I agree, absolutely. (Ain't nothin' wrong with a straight in)!

 

[Rneuwirth]

Sorry I've been gone for a while, but I did originally post this question.

First, I did enter the downwind on the 45, since the wind was opposite to the prediction the night before (this is Wyoming after all).

Second, I PASSED MY CHECKRIDE!!

Third, the many answers and the posted diagrams suggest that absolutely ANY possible entry can be expected and that there really is no specific "usual and correct" way to enter, but rather that I'll need to be even more careful about traffic than I had thought.

Thanks to all

 

[Ghery]

Sorry I've been gone for a while, but I did originally post this question.

First, I did enter the downwind on the 45, since the wind was opposite to the prediction the night before (this is Wyoming after all).

Second, I PASSED MY CHECKRIDE!!

Third, the many answers and the posted diagrams suggest that absolutely ANY possible entry can be expected and that there really is no specific "usual and correct" way to enter, but rather that I'll need to be even more careful about traffic than I had thought.

Thanks to all

Congratulations on passing your checkride. Now you've got your licence to learn. Go out and have some fun.

 

[dmccormack]

Second, I PASSED MY CHECKRIDE!!

Congratulations!!!!!

Third, the many answers and the posted diagrams suggest that absolutely ANY possible entry can be expected and that there really is no specific "usual and correct" way to enter, but rather that I'll need to be even more careful about traffic than I had thought.

This is the best conclusion and should be the summary post of this thread.

 

[p1l0t]

Congratulations!

<---<^>--->

 

[denverpilot]

First, I did enter the downwind on the 45, since the wind was opposite to the prediction the night before (this is Wyoming after all).

Second, I PASSED MY CHECKRIDE!!

I thought in Wyoming you entered on the 20, and get blown to the 45.

Congrats on passing the checkride!!!

 

[dell30rb]

Since the implementation of the 45 degree entry, mid-airs have declined in pattern but increased near the 45 point. No matter what you will always want to 'have your head out of the cockpit.' [Look outside the window] It is much easier to spot and get spotted when everyone is at the same altitude, one of the reasons for the TPA. I am also a believer in running the race track especially during high-traffic because everyone can kind of fall into line making seperation easier. But the arguments about maneuvering around extra and that it only adds to the time you are 'in the way' are completely valid points. If you have a radio, always communicate who you are, where you are, and what are your intentions. And always be on the look out for the unexpected, like when your turning base to final and there is that pilot on a straight-in final on the wrong frequency when there a 4 planes in the pattern..

<---<^>--->

I had a relatively close call with a cessna 421 last week. I was on a 45 degree entry, he called 8 miles out and made a downdwind entry. He announced "cessna" and when he was 8 miles out I figured he would be no factor. As I am about to turn downwind, he zooms by at 150 knots. He was about 200 feet above pattern altitude and I never saw him because the 45 degree entry put my 152's wing in a position to block the view of any traffic entering a downwind leg that was above pattern altitude.

 

[Witmo]

I had a relatively close call with a cessna 421 last week. I was on a 45 degree entry, he called 8 miles out and made a downdwind entry. He announced "cessna" and when he was 8 miles out I figured he would be no factor. As I am about to turn downwind, he zooms by at 150 knots. He was about 200 feet above pattern altitude and I never saw him because the 45 degree entry put my 152's wing in a position to block the view of any traffic entering a downwind leg that was above pattern altitude.

The fact that he was above your pattern altitude is not unusual as the bigger, faster airplanes generally fly 500 feet above the puddle jumper pattern altitude.

 

[dmccormack]

The fact that he was above your pattern altitude is not unusual as the bigger, faster airplanes generally fly 500 feet above the puddle jumper pattern altitude.

From AC 90-66A:

Large and turbine-powered airplanes should enter the traffic pattern at an altitude of 1,500 feet AGL or 500 feet above the established pattern altitude. A pilot may vary the size of the traffic pattern depending on the
aircraft’s performance characteristics.

 

[poadeleted20]

Third, the many answers and the posted diagrams suggest that absolutely ANY possible entry can be expected and that there really is no specific "usual and correct" way to enter, but rather that I'll need to be even more careful about traffic than I had thought.

You've learned the most important lesson of all from this discussion. Good on ya!