Tower closure poll. Lurkers welcome.

[jnmeade]

I didn't vote. My impression is that most government agencies seem to be publicizing cuts that are most likely to gain supportive public emotional responses. I think the feds are deliberately playing a big game of chicken, counting on public opinion to squeeze out more money and avoid the cuts. We'll see.
As I fly out of a non-towered field, that gets quite a mix of traffic, I'm comfortable with minimal towers.
Many towers close at night now.

 

[nddons]

Dude.......... The US government is hemmoraging money to the point of causing this great nation to fail.....

Treat ALL guvmint programs like we should be fighting wars....

"kill them all and let god sort it out"...

How many of is one allowed in any one thread?

 

[nddons]

I didn't vote. My impression is that most government agencies seem to be publicizing cuts that are most likely to gain supportive public emotional responses. I think the feds are deliberately playing a big game of chicken, counting on public opinion to squeeze out more money and avoid the cuts. We'll see.
As I fly out of a non-towered field, that gets quite a mix of traffic, I'm comfortable with minimal towers.
Many towers close at night now.

As this whole thing is political theater designed to extract the most negative impact on citizens, I think I'll play along and voted to have towers at EVERY airport. Think of the stimulus THAT would involve! The economy will be fixed in no time, with controllers spending their bucks all over this great land.

 

[Skylane81E]

I picked after study, but I think the list should be expanded to all towers in that case.

 

[geneseib]

I agree with this. There are things the government spends our money on that are way more foolish than a control tower at a sleepy airport in the boondocks. We really need to concentrate on the homeland and not so much being the world savior and/or policeman.

I am curious about the duck penises though...

P.S. Please don't respond to my little political rant too much. I'd like to keep this out of the SZ.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/poli...ce-foundation-spent-384949-study-duck-penises

 

[Dav8or]

Kinda scares me that 11 people chose the first option....I'm not a huge fan of the poll since it appears somewhat biased to me, but I picked the "after review" option since there are 2 or 3 airports I have been to on the list that legitimately do not need their towers;however, my true feeling is for them to stop trying to fix what isn't broken and look at possibly cutting other areas of the budget......like you know......foreign aid and missles and stuff....

How is it biased in your opinion. I tried to add all options, but I admit I screwed up and didn't include do nothing, status quo. Sadly I cannot go back and add this.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Kinda scares me that 11 people chose the first option....I'm not a huge fan of the poll since it appears somewhat biased to me, but I picked the "after review" option since there are 2 or 3 airports I have been to on the list that legitimately do not need their towers;however, my true feeling is for them to stop trying to fix what isn't broken and look at possibly cutting other areas of the budget......like you know......foreign aid and missles and stuff....

Anyone who flies GA regularly can rattle off two or three towers in the "WTF is THAT there for?" category. No further study is required, IMHO.

Bottom line: Controllers have driven their wages to unaffordable levels, especially WRT the marginal towers. Back when they were seen as civil servants and were paid accordingly, we could afford all sorts of cool things -- like Flight Service Stations.

Those days are gone.

The unions drove wages through the roof (top tier: $77/hour), for "the good of their members". This, in turn, helped drive the trend toward (much cheaper) contract towers, and now, with sequestration, is pushing many towers to the brink of extinction.

But don't worry. As I predicted, the government swooped in with "emergency funding" at the last minute, and kept all of these "essential" government facilities open. Government is like the Frankenstein monster -- you have to keep killing it, over and over and over...and then it STILL comes back.

 

[CT Arrow]

Every Class D tower (6 total) in Connecticut is slated to close. Frankly, maybe 2 out of the 6 should re-open. The others are simply not necessary.
This is an opportunity to rethink how towers are utilized and what functionality they really provide to low use airports.

And regarding Duck penis's, trust me that some of them are operating at these control towers.....

 

[JasonCT]

Every Class D tower (6 total) in Connecticut is slated to close. Frankly, maybe 2 out of the 6 should re-open. The others are simply not necessary.
This is an opportunity to rethink how towers are utilized and what functionality they really provide to low use airports.

And regarding Duck penis's, trust me that some of them are operating at these control towers.....

Have to agree with you Andy. Have you ever flown in Worcester? Talk about a snooze fest of on airport, and they have a tower! That one was a head scratcher for me.

 

[Everskyward]

I think that if we are going to suggest other means of cost-cutting in order to offset the cost of the towers, we should keep our suggestions to things within the scope of the FAA since I believe the cuts need to come from within each department. Duck penises, foreign aid, etc. do not fit in that category.

 

[nddons]

I think that if we are going to suggest other means of cost-cutting in order to offset the cost of the towers, we should keep our suggestions to things within the scope of the FAA since I believe the cuts need to come from within each department. Duck penises, foreign aid, etc. do not fit in that category.

Excellent.

Why don't we start with "Organizational Development" studies for the FAA, like this one: http://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/2010s/media/201206.pdf

I wonder how big this contract was: http://www.evolutionmgt.com/index.php/FAA-OD-Project

FAA Organizational Development Project Recently EMI completed a successful change management project with the FAA. The project involved developing transition and communication plans for an organization preparing to implement significant changes to the way work is completed. In addition to our work at the organizational level, we also designed and implemented interventions at the individual and team levels.
Details go here.

 

[GCA319]

I voted close allstatements I havhave s d towers. No study needed, by virtue of being class d we know they don't need a tower. Once they are all gone and nothing happens we can se what class c airports can get the axe. All this whining for gov $ is pathetic our towers and foreign aid for duck penii is the same thing, spending vapor dollars.

Wow...that's one of the most short sighted statements Ive seen in a long time.

 

[schmookeeg]

Wow...that's one of the most short sighted statements Ive seen in a long time.

So what is the far-sighted justification for spending more money than we have?

 

[Palmpilot]

So what is the far-sighted justification for spending more money than we have?

What does that have to do with the point he was making?

 

[schmookeeg]

What does that have to do with the point he was making?

The point he made, unless I read it incorrectly, was that complaining about spending vapor dollars is short-sighted -- so what is the opposite viewpoint?

 

[Palmpilot]

The point he made, unless I read it incorrectly, was that complaining about spending vapor dollars is short-sighted -- so what is the opposite viewpoint?

Did you rule out the possibility that he might think there are better ways to save money than closing all class D towers?

 

[Jay Honeck]

Did you rule out the possibility that he might think there are better ways to save money than closing all class D towers?

I think we can all agree with that statement. Unfortunately, our Ruling Class has not given us that option.

 

[schmookeeg]

Did you rule out the possibility that he might think there are better ways to save money than closing all class D towers?

I don't rule it out, but I don't have that information, and I would be saddened if there were obvious internal cuts available which our FAA bureaucrats lack the will to make. But that's not what everyone is asking for. They're asking to keep their towers "despite all".

I don't see why being willing to take our licks with the rest of the country is short-sighted.

In fact, I would think that GA should be quietly willing to take more than our share of licks, and staying well out of the limelight on this one -- rather than complaining about having to take ANY federal dollar cutbacks.

I'd hate to defend this viewpoint against someone who is losing something important -- healthcare, food, shelter, whatever. What a priceless ass I'd look, trying to save my control towers vs. something that might actually matter to someone's well-being and welfare.

I can only imagine the pained howls of the populace if they were to learn that little airports nationwide receive many millions of dollars for improvement from the FAA. Imagine explaining to Joe Sixpack that a tower costs 7 figures per year to operate, and might only have a few thousand ops per year. I can't even justify it to my pilot friends. Oh, but Joe Sixpack, please pay an extra $10 copay for your meds, or an extra $150/mo in insurance premium. That argument loses.

I don't think it's hard to find cuts in places I'd prefer were taken -- but I understood sequestration to basically level cuts across the board at some fixed percentage rate. It makes sense to me. If I hate wars, I know that they're getting a haircut just like the things I don't hate. I understand it's now getting twisted by politics like everything does.. I think each example of trying to oil out of the needed cuts is a weakness of will on the part of the people and the politicians -- including this tower thing.

I like control towers. I don't like being a complainer, or associated with a group of complainers while I mount my 100k airplane, fly around at 14mpg for either no purpose at all, or to conduct travel which is only novel in its inefficiency and required use of skills I possess -- and then expect to not take my due lumps in a down economy while others are tightening an already-tight belt and making more dire sacrifices than I am. It feels churlish. Have I worked hard to earn the right to fly? Sure. I've also been fortunate in my opportunities, station, and all sorts of ingredients -- some of which were from the government, either better or worse. Control towers seem a really bad place to show my ingratitude. Restrict my access to TRACON or other serious safety concern, and yes, I'll beg for a way to contribute more money or I'll probably stop flying -- but sleepy class D towers? Yeah, have em back.

If it helps, I would happily have voted "Reduce the salaries and benefits of all FAA employees by 10%" in lieu of tower closure. I have neither heard anything like that advanced as a possibility, nor did it appear in the poll selections.

$0.02

- Mike

 

[GCA319]

So what is the far-sighted justification for spending more money than we have?

You do realize how small a percentage of the federal budget these towers represent, right? The contract tower program has actually saved us quite a bit. With a few exceptions on the list, I wouldn't consider it wasteful spending either...Contrary to the popular belief of this forum, Government is supposed to provide services and in alot of cases, essential services should be the absolute last area cut and we haven't come anywhere near to making the necessary, prior cuts before getting rid of stuff important to our everyday safety and lives. For those of you advocating the closing of every Class D tower that exists, I invite you to head out to DVT, CMA, or another really busy Class D post tower closure in your bizzarre, anti-gumment utopia and then get back to me...

 

[GCA319]

The point he made, unless I read it incorrectly, was that complaining about spending vapor dollars is short-sighted -- so what is the opposite viewpoint?

To add: If we used your logic on spending vapor dollars, we'd have to close any schools that are federally funded too, right? These are the kind of things government should spend money on. How about we cut stuff like spending overseas and corperate welfare (Obama's health bill being an example) that represent a much, much larger portion of the budget.

 

[weilke]

Interesting internet phenomenon. The majority of respondents to the poll is clearly of the opinion that some towers should remain open yet the discussion in the thread is dominated by the 'close all towers and turn the interstates into toll-roads' crowd.

Almost youtube comment section stuff.

 

[Palmpilot]

...I would be saddened if there were obvious internal cuts available which our FAA bureaucrats lack the will to make...

Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I suspect that that is in fact the case. I would be surprised if there were not things the FAA could cut that would have less safety impact than closing "all" class D towers.

But that's not what everyone is asking for. They're asking to keep their towers "despite all".

The statement he called short-sighted was that "all" class D towers should be closed. I don't see how that is equivalent to asking to keep towers "despite all." And the majority opinion appears to be that SOME towers should be closed after a rational selection process.

I don't see why being willing to take our licks with the rest of the country is short-sighted.

Me neither, but I'm having trouble believing that there are not cuts the FAA could make that would have less safety impact than closing high traffic towers. Low traffic towers, I don't see a problem with closing.

 

[Dav8or]

Interesting internet phenomenon. The majority of respondents to the poll is clearly of the opinion that some towers should remain open yet the discussion in the thread is dominated by the 'close all towers and turn the interstates into toll-roads' crowd.

Almost youtube comment section stuff.

And that's why I created an anonymous poll and tried to encourage lurkers to participate. There are lots of people that read this stuff, but don't want to comment. Particularly when they might get harangued or called a moron for having an opposing view to the most vocal here. I had a feeling that the majority of pilots weren't all that thrilled with the "Close 'em all." mantra.

 

[weilke]

And that's why I created an anonymous poll and tried to encourage lurkers to participate. There are lots of people that read this stuff, but don't want to comment. Particularly when they might get harangued or called a moron for having an opposing view to the most vocal here. I had a feeling that the majority of pilots weren't all that thrilled with the "Close 'em all." mantra.

Well, I guess 59% of your nonrepresentative sample chose communist statism over freedom , yet very few of them dared to post their opinion in public.

Same thing we see with exit-polls on election day.

 

[N801BH]

......I'm having trouble believing that there are not cuts the FAA could make that would have less safety impact than closing high traffic towers. Low traffic towers, I don't see a problem with closing.

Oh....

There are numerous major cuts the FAA and all other depts of the guvmint could cut..... The Obama administration wants to use the highly visible ones to bully its way into the next election..... If you think differently then you might need to rethink politics...

 

[Dav8or]

Well, I guess 59% of your nonrepresentative sample chose communist statism over freedom , yet very few of them dared to post their opinion in public.

Same thing we see with exit-polls on election day.

See what I mean? If you happen to like control towers, or think they provide a valuable service, you get labeled a freedom hating Commie. Who says this is non representative? The poll is playing out nearly the same over on the AOPA boards. What is to be gained from posting your opinion in public? Why should they have to?

 

[Palmpilot]

If you think differently then you might need to rethink politics...

Yeah, because politics is a science ... NOT!

 

[Ghery]

Yeah, because politics is a science ... NOT!

Politics. "Poli" from the Greek word for many. "Ticks", a blood sucking parasite.