Too much plane for training?

Mantoga

Mantoga

Filing Flight Plan
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Mar 20, 2018
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Mantoga
Hi all,
I’m interested in hearing any/all thoughts for teaching two new pilots (my sons, 18-20yrs. Old) in either a C-182 or the plane I really want, a V tail or Debonair. My reasoning behind these choices is mainly our size, I’m 6,6” and one son is that size and the other is 6’8”! As far as the Beech I just love the way they fly and oddly it seems you can get a better deal on one of these than a 182. Flight trading for me was 35 years and 19,000 hours ago so I admittedly might need a reality check about either plane. Any thought from mechanics, owners, instructors would be greatly appreciated.
 
You have 19,000hrs and have been around these two men for their entire lives, you should know better than us lol
 
That's the sole reason I have my 182. Mine is an 81 R model....143tas, 1311lbs useful, and 88 usable. It's super easy to fly, and is about as practical as it gets. The Bo is faster, has more "sporty" handling, and from what I have heard is easier to land, but you won't have the cabin room or useful load.
 
I soloed a 16 year old kid in his brand new SR22. With the proper training, they can fly almost anything.
 
I don't really think it matters what you learn in as long as it's not some super exotic with unique characteristics. A good instructor can take care of the propeller and gear while the student learns the basics, then add them back in once the student gets into a flow. Both of those airplanes have a very gentle stall and no real bad habits.
 
The training will just take longer in a more complex aircraft. Certainly not a deal breaker, especially if you own said aircraft.
 
Either plane is fine. Being that everyone is tall I might lean towards a C182, just watch out for the high wing and they don't walk into it. ;):)

Fixed gear 182 less to learn vs a retract, but that can be easily taught too. I've taught people from Cubs to complex single engines and ME and they all did well. Just ensure they know the systems if you purchase a complex airplane especially abnormal and emergency procedures. You having 19K would know this and hopefully stress it to your sons.
 
wonder what insurance will be for a low time young pilot in that spanking new SR-22?o_O
 
Thanks for the replies guys, I’ve been looking at planes for a while while renting a local c-172 for the boys. It’s been a long time sense I last flew a bonanza, and it was a 36, freighter, but I remember it being roomy and flew great. I haven’t as of yet got to sit in an older V-tail or Debonair, none in my area for sale or avail to check out. I figured they would have like cockpit room to the 36, anyone flown either of these and a 182 recently that can comment to the size would be great
 
I’m with the group,that believes,you should train in the airplane your going to own.
 
Mantoga said:
Thanks for the replies guys, I’ve been looking at planes for a while while renting a local c-172 for the boys. It’s been a long time sense I last flew a bonanza, and it was a 36, freighter, but I remember it being roomy and flew great. I haven’t as of yet got to sit in an older V-tail or Debonair, none in my area for sale or avail to check out. I figured they would have like cockpit room to the 36, anyone flown either of these and a 182 recently that can comment to the size would be great
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I've flown and instructed in BE 33, 35, and 36, and the cabin is the same as far as I know. The 36 might be a bit longer.
 
At 6'8" --> C182.

I am 6'3" and the bonanzas are snug.
 
I just finished doing my PPL in a fixed gear 182 . I'm not as tall as you guys (I'm 6'2"). I Guess I have to ask, at those heights - what about weights for these guys?

Unless the guy is massive overweight, I am pretty sure someone 6'6" would fit pretty well in the 182. That pilot seat moves back and forth a lot!!!! A lot of the 182's have adjustable height pilot seats - at my height I leave it all the way down and have headroom to spare.

I learned the 182 in my 50's and I suspect the HP, Constant Speed Prop added 5-8hrs to my overall training. I pretty much had it all down by solo time.

Your boys are young, if they could learn complex (retract) as part of their initial training it would be awesome. I wish my initial training had included retract and fuel switching so that it was all I ever knew.

On the flip side, if you want to keep it simpler for them, in the 182 they be going a little slower. They will fit. The plane will climb great. No fuel pump switching (at least in the older models) and no chance of forgetting the gear. Plus you'd probably be comfortable doing actual soft fields, etc. Since you know your kids better than us this might be a key point to consider.

I have to think there's a lot of kids out there who might forget to switch tanks and get away with it. I know I landed a few times with the prop still out a bit and even in the go around the 182 had enough power. I once even took off with full carb heat (way dumb, it was like -5F) but that m'fer got it done. I really only noticed it during the climb out, planned a low altitude return, noticed it was out, slid it in and like - whamo - Continental power :)

Now, either son forgets the gear just once early in training and there's no forgiveness and also no plane for either one to finish their lessons in which would be a large delay which is bad for training.

If you know for sure that the Bo is the only way to go for your family then buying (or even renting) a 182 should probably be put towards the Bo instead.
 
Oh yeah, if you don't want your kids to ever experience Carb Ice...the old carb'd 182's will be the first thing you scratch off your list. They do make ice.
 
jordane93 said:
His dad is a CSIP.
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A what?

tim-the-enchanter-small.jpg
 
Mantoga said:
Thanks for the replies guys, I’ve been looking at planes for a while while renting a local c-172 for the boys. It’s been a long time sense I last flew a bonanza, and it was a 36, freighter, but I remember it being roomy and flew great. I haven’t as of yet got to sit in an older V-tail or Debonair, none in my area for sale or avail to check out. I figured they would have like cockpit room to the 36, anyone flown either of these and a 182 recently that can comment to the size would be great
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I'm 5'11 265, and I fly with a guy that is ~6'6 300... we both fit with room to spare
 
I have a 1977 Cessna 182q and a 1966 debonair with the 285 engine.

Debonair is way more fun and about 20'knots faster than the 182 on the same fuel.

Skylane is much, much roomier, and a lot easier to teach in.

Older bonanzas and debonair either have the throwover wheel( what I have) or a really clunky dual wheel design that makes it really hard to get in if you are big.
 
You fit in what, the 182 or the beech?
 
mscard88 said:
I've flown and instructed in BE 33, 35, and 36, and the cabin is the same as far as I know. The 36 might be a bit longer.
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A36 is about 10 inches longer and they don't have cg issues like the debonair and bonanza do.
On those models, CG moves aft as you burn fuel, and you have to be careful, as you can leave in cg and yet burn enough fuel that you are out with a rearward cg when you land.
 
c310flyr said:
I have a 1977 Cessna 182q and a 1966 debonair with the 285 engine.

Debonair is way more fun and about 20'knots faster than the 182 on the same fuel.

Skylane is much, much roomier, and a lot easier to teach in.

Older bonanzas and debonair either have the throwover wheel( what I have) or a really clunky dual wheel design that makes it really hard to get in if you are big.
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Wow! Both, I’m jealous. Well it seems the crowd agrees with you that the 182 is roomier, and I’m sure cheaper come annual time. The clincher came today when AOPA informed me that insurance would be roughly 7 times that of the 182 for any Bonanza! Ouch. Anyone know a good 182 for sale?
 
Wow, when I was 16 I flew a kite.

jordane93 said:
Nope. 22. He started flying it when he was 15. His dad is a CSIP. We flew 4-5 times a week and he soloed on his 16th birthday.
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Awesome, wow. Under the right circumstances there is no such thing as too much airplane.

If I had to dump someone in a cockpit that I purchased I'd go with the airplane I was most comfortable with and hope the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. If it does, oh well at least you're having fun.
 
Mantoga said:
. Anyone know a good 182 for sale?
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Well what are the odds, we were thinking of listing our 182P for a mere $185K. It has mint 46 year old interior, a King radio and a Android tablet...and Rosen visors...and the original door lock and stewards still work :)

Seriously: If they train in a 182 with a carb, try to find an instructor that understands the carb ice potential. And when it happened to us on a lesson, that became part of the lesson. I am much less apprehensive about it now.
 
paflyer said:
I'll bet he doesn't care.
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Heh! No kidding! If they can afford to spend three quarters of a million dollars on a new airplane, I'm sure the insurance cost is the least of their concern.
 
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