Too Cold for Flight

marcoseddi

marcoseddi

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marc
So I am not sure its probably a stupid question but why not ask. This Sunday is looking to be Sunny but around 25-28 degree I know cold is good flying conditions however, is too cold like that too cold? I am sure there are some other factors like precipitation in the air, what will help create ice on the wings?
 
marcoseddi said:
So I am not sure its probably a stupid question but why not ask. This Sunday is looking to be Sunny but around 25-28 degree I know cold is good flying conditions however, is too cold like that too cold? I am sure there are some other factors like precipitation in the air, what will help create ice on the wings?
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I live just outside of Chicago so this question is right up my ally! Our club's rules is no flight under 0 degrees Fahrenheit. Our planes are plugged into heaters for the oil-pan under 15 degrees Fahrenheit. 25-28 is perfectly doable flying weather...we haven't been above that temperature much in the past month and I've been flying plenty of times. The only issue you might have is if your doing pattern work in the cold (under 15) the engine oil doesnt really get to warm up, the cabin heat doesn't work that well because of the slow speeds in pattern work and it just really isn't that comfortable.

Icing on the wings will only occur with visible moisture. So, 25-28 degree cold isn't an issue to worry about. Flying in the winter has been much less turbulent and really enjoyable.
 
marcoseddi said:
So I am not sure its probably a stupid question but why not ask. This Sunday is looking to be Sunny but around 25-28 degree I know cold is good flying conditions however, is too cold like that too cold? I am sure there are some other factors like precipitation in the air, what will help create ice on the wings?
Click to expand...

General rule of thumb we use is no training flights below 10 degrees...just too hard on equipment. But if I'm going somewhere (preferably someplace warmer), nothing is "too cold"....I've headed south in -30 below. Thankfully my Mooney left those temps behind fairly quickly.

This time of year, temps approaching mid- to high-20s have people racing out to fly, taking advantage of the warm weather. :yes:
 
marcoseddi said:
So I am not sure its probably a stupid question but why not ask. This Sunday is looking to be Sunny but around 25-28 degree I know cold is good flying conditions however, is too cold like that too cold? I am sure there are some other factors like precipitation in the air, what will help create ice on the wings?
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Just go fly. They airplane doesn't care how cold it is. The engine may like alittle pre heat, but you should not be worrying about ice until you become an instrument pilot.

gkaiser said:
I live just outside of Chicago so this question is right up my ally! Our club's rules is no flight under 0 degrees Fahrenheit.
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Why?
 
I always used the rule to wait until the oil temps are in the green before applying any kind of power. It can take awhile when its cold out. But cold clear days are the best flying. Tcraft with just me and a half tank of gas climbs like a homesick angel. (comparatively)
 
Went flying a couple weekends ago at about 20 degrees, 1500 fpm climb was wonderful. go fly, just let the engine warm up before you put the throttle to the stops.
 
@Moose - Good question. Our club has no flights under 0 degrees. The aircraft are parked outside on tanis heaters. I could understand no pattern work under 0 because your not giving the engine enough time to really warm up from the slow speeds...but if you're going somewhere 0 degrees shouldn't be an issue.
 
@VanDy - Typically how long have you had to wait for the oil temp to go into the green? I've had quite a few training flights where after taxiing/run-up/etc..(15 minutes total maybe?) the oil still wasnt in the green...and didnt finally get into the green until we had climbed up for awhile..
 
25-28 is cold? Bahahahahahahahhaaaa.

I've flown in -10F with no issue. Just wear good socks.
 
The ONE thing I'd be concerned about in cold weather is oil flow. All SAE-rated oils have a pour point, below which the oil won't flow. If this happens, it's serious; you have an unlubricated engine. But a solution is preheat. The appropriate temperature is going to be far, far below freezing, and probably well below 0 F. If a full-synthetic oil is used, it may be as low as -40.

You're not going to get structural icing unless you're flying in rain or clouds. Rain is possible but unlikely below freezing (you need an inversion).
 
" Sunny but around 25-28 degree"
I assume you mean +25 F? -28C is getting chilly. +25F is no big deal.

Given the above assumption...

It is a nicer if the airplane has a heater. A heater that warms up the sole of your shoe so much you can't use the right rudder pedal while the rest of you is still cold is better than nothing.

It is way nicer if the airplane has a heater that makes a noticeable difference in the general cabin temperature.

No heat, single digit (F) temperatures, drafty airplane, I'm done after an hour or so.

Ice happens in precipitation or clouds.

As mentioned, pre-heat the engine if at all possible.
 
We had a really cold stretch of weather last week with temps ranging from below zero to single digits. I was not given any restrictions by my instructor nor the FBO. Just make sure the engine is preheated ...
 
One time flew 200 miles at night with temps -10F. We put the cowl plugs in the C- 177RG and left. Landed in Chadron NE with small drifts of snow on the runway, dropped off our passenger and discovered our brakes had frozen and we couldn't move. I've never been so cold in my life by the time we got home. Heater didn't keep up on that trip!
 
VanDy said:
I always used the rule to wait until the oil temps are in the green before applying any kind of power. It can take awhile when its cold out. But cold clear days are the best flying. Tcraft with just me and a half tank of gas climbs like a homesick angel. (comparatively)
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Whats the preferred way to warm up the engine quicker? 1000-1200 leaned mixture? It seems to take even longer when you watch the Hobbs meter ticking.
 
Mike5250 said:
Whats the preferred way to warm up the engine quicker? 1000-1200 leaned mixture? It seems to take even longer when you watch the Hobbs meter ticking.
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I know the feeling... but if you're renting at your local FBO, shouldn't the line guy have preheated the engine for you?

However, without the aid of some kind of forced air heater, I am also curious about what the preferred method to warm up the engine would be, and under what conditions one would do so.

Also:
steingar said:
They fly airplanes in Siberia and the North Pole and stuff.
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:yeahthat:
 
EdFred said:
25-28 is cold? Bahahahahahahahhaaaa.

I've flown in -10F with no issue. Just wear good socks.
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Or just fly without toes!


Toe amputation works two fold. Eliminates odor and tendency to get cold!
:lol:
 
Swampfox201 said:
One time flew 200 miles at night with temps -10F. We put the cowl plugs in the C- 177RG and left. Landed in Chadron NE with small drifts of snow on the runway, dropped off our passenger and discovered our brakes had frozen and we couldn't move. I've never been so cold in my life by the time we got home. Heater didn't keep up on that trip!
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How'd you deal with the brake issue? Have the plane dragged into a hangar skidding? or time?

David
 
tangopapa said:
I know the feeling... but if you're renting at your local FBO, shouldn't the line guy have preheated the engine for you?

However, without the aid of some kind of forced air heater, I am also curious about what the preferred method to warm up the engine would be, and under what conditions one would do so.

Also:


:yeahthat:
Click to expand...

Mike5250 said:
Whats the preferred way to warm up the engine quicker? 1000-1200 leaned mixture? It seems to take even longer when you watch the Hobbs meter ticking.
Click to expand...

gkaiser said:
@VanDy - Typically how long have you had to wait for the oil temp to go into the green? I've had quite a few training flights where after taxiing/run-up/etc..(15 minutes total maybe?) the oil still wasnt in the green...and didnt finally get into the green until we had climbed up for awhile..
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Well, it takes as long as it takes, and the colder it is the longer it will take obviously. I usually let it idle for a for a few minutes and then bump it just off of idle for as long as it takes to get the needle moving north before adding any more power. I'll let somebody else chime in on the mixture, my little A-65 doesnt do that much :D
 
Marc, you made one mistake. Your post was NOT a stupid question. The only stupid question here is the one that does not get asked as you can see you got a lot of varried but good information

Swampfox201 said:
One time flew 200 miles at night with temps -10F. We put the cowl plugs in the C- 177RG and left. Landed in Chadron NE with small drifts of snow on the runway, dropped off our passenger and discovered our brakes had frozen and we couldn't move. I've never been so cold in my life by the time we got home. Heater didn't keep up on that trip!
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You flew with the cowl plugs in?
 
bnt83 said:
Or just fly without toes!


Toe amputation works two fold. Eliminates odor and tendency to get cold!
:lol:
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I have to say, you have a terrific outlook on life after all you've been through. :yes:
 
B)
tangopapa said:
I have to say, you have a terrific outlook on life after all you've been through. :yes:
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Its actually more than two fold. No stinking toe nails to clip, or toes to stub on furniture etc when walking around.


Jeeze maybe I'm a pioneer in useful body modifications? B)
 
Took the glider out last week. It was in the 50s with a 10 knot headwind. We climbed to 3000 feet in under 4 minutes. 20 degrees is probably unheard of. ;)
 
bnt83 said:
B)



Its actually more than two fold. No stinking toe nails to clip, or toes to stub on furniture etc when walking around.


Jeeze maybe I'm a pioneer in useful body modifications? B)
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that too!:yesnod:
 
AdamZ said:
You flew with the cowl plugs in?
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I saw that, too. Did he really?

We don't have a minimum allowable temperature for flying club planes, but if it ever got down to 0 degrees F around here we'd be too busy worrying about other things like frozen pipes to even think about flying. Upper 20s? No problem Go fly. Club planes are plugged in with heaters and hangared, so not an issue.
 
steingar said:
They fly airplanes in Siberia and the North Pole and stuff.
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The SOUTH pole. The north pole is pack ice.

And flights are prohibited at SP Station in winter due to oil freezing.

NSF uses C-130s operating out of NZCH, but has recently tried out a 737.
 
flhrci said:
How'd you deal with the brake issue? Have the plane dragged into a hangar skidding? or time?

David
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Its been awhile but if I remember right like we rocked the hell out of it and we might of even got a little hammer and tapped on the brakes to get them to come loose. I do remember taking off and we waited forever to retract the gear and we cycled it a few times because we were worried about it freezing in the belly.
 
AdamZ said:
Marc, you made one mistake. Your post was NOT a stupid question. The only stupid question here is the one that does not get asked as you can see you got a lot of varried but good information



You flew with the cowl plugs in?
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Ok you got me someone please help me with the term. They went in the front just like cowl plugs but they were somehow secured in place and they blocked the majority of the air from entering and cooling the engine. Anyone know what they are called? Its the only time I remember using them. My CFI was PIC. I was just the frozen stiff who was dumb enough to say "yes" when asked if I wanted to go along.
 
Swampfox201 said:
Ok you got me someone please help me with the term. They went in the front just like cowl plugs but they were somehow secured in place and they blocked the majority of the air from entering and cooling the engine. Anyone know what they are called? Its the only time I remember using them. My CFI was PIC. I was just the frozen stiff who was dumb enough to say "yes" when asked if I wanted to go along.
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What engine? Without knowing I would just call them a "winterization kit".

-Skip
 
From this article: http://www.blueridgeflightsolutions.com/blog/cirrus-cold-weather-operations/

For the normally aspirated SR20 and SR22 at an outside air temperature (OAT) of -10º F or below, Cirrus requires the use of cowl inlet covers approved by Cirrus Aircraft and listed in the Winterization Kit P/N 13772-118. The Winterization Kit consists of two plastic pieces that fit into the air inlets on the front of the cowling on either side of the spinner. These pieces attach with one screw per side and use existing hardware and predrilled holes. It is a very simple installation that anyone can do in about 5 minutes with only a Phillips head screwdriver. The cowl inlet covers reduce the airflow into the cowling by about 25%, thus keeping the engine running warmer.
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We were flying a C-177RG but the idea was the same.
 
I have flown with OAT at -15F or lower at 10Kft and would open the window to take photos. When it hurts too much, just close the window for a bit. And it sure is nice to have a good heater! Cold is just fine on the airplane, and it sure flies nicely! As other have said, just be sure to pre-heat before starting.
 

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Some tape over the vent inlets helps with the Cessna air vents that do not seem to really close :D
 
My low temp record is -34f.....

You have to be damn careful to treat the plexiglas windows and other plastic parts with extreme care.... The plane LOVES the cold air though... Now that I am getting older, I draw the line at -5f... In fact when Henning was here a few weeks back I didn't drag the plane out till it was slightly above 0,f..........

That young, crazy fool was ready to go flying when it was -20f.... :rolleyes:
 
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