Too Big To Fly

cbomia

cbomia

Filing Flight Plan
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Apr 8, 2014
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CH1EF
Hello all,

My name is Chris and I am roughly 400 lbs at 6'4". I took my Discovery flight on Sunday and the flight instructor called me today and said she would be unable to train me because of my size. Here I am now with a pilot log with .5 hours signed off and on the computer looking for options. We were pretty tight in the cockpit at first but it seemed to get more comfortable as we adjusted around. We flew a cessna 172 out of Lenawee County Airport. My instructor was a smaller woman, maybe 145 lbs soaking wet. She had an occurence with another trainee that was 300 lbs starting to land and he "locked up" and she couldn't get the controls away from him. I understand her fear, she said all of my turns were very smooth and well controlled and that i had a "nac" for flying. I am an ex-football player, i have no medical issues, i have a very large frame though. Are their any schools that will work around that, or am i just dreaming the impossible. I am open to honesty, and I never like to give up. Any and all responses will be helpful. I live in South East Michigan and would love to learn from a school close by.
 
Lose the weight or buy a boat. Most airplanes were designed for 1950's sized people.
 
I do not have any schools to offer for consideration, but I would offer some encouragement. Do not give up there are a lot of other large pilots and surely there are instructors who would be pleased to work with you. If you cannot find a school then look for a private instructor who may have his own plane to use or cooperates with an FBO who rents aircraft. If you truly want to learn to fly then there is a way. Perhaps another conversation with the lady instructor you flew with and promises to immediately release the controls upon her order might sway her to reconsider. You might even have to rent something with more room say perhaps a 182 to be able to be comfortable. Best wishes and keep trying you will find someone.

Randy
 
cbomia said:
Hello all,

My name is Chris and I am roughly 400 lbs at 6'4". I took my Discovery flight on Sunday and the flight instructor called me today and said she would be unable to train me because of my size. Here I am now with a pilot log with .5 hours signed off and on the computer looking for options. We were pretty tight in the cockpit at first but it seemed to get more comfortable as we adjusted around. We flew a cessna 172 out of Lenawee County Airport. My instructor was a smaller woman, maybe 145 lbs soaking wet. She had an occurence with another trainee that was 300 lbs starting to land and he "locked up" and she couldn't get the controls away from him. I understand her fear, she said all of my turns were very smooth and well controlled and that i had a "nac" for flying. I am an ex-football player, i have no medical issues, i have a very large frame though. Are their any schools that will work around that, or am i just dreaming the impossible. I am open to honesty, and I never like to give up. Any and all responses will be helpful. I live in South East Michigan and would love to learn from a school close by.
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Unfortunately I can empathize. I was close to your weight. There are weight and balance issues with small GA aircraft. I have had gastric bypass and have since lost 130 pounds and received my ppl. Good luck.
 
Is it the physical size of the OP that's the issue or the forward CG? With fuel at tabs and the weight provided, CG would most likely be beyond the forward limit without some ballast in the baggage hold.
 
I'm not visualizing any "Typical Trainers" for a guy your size. Nothing wrong with getting your own ride and training in it. My back of the envelope calculation says you're going to want a 182 or bigger airplane. Those drink more fuel than a typical trainer. Maybe find a club? Go hang out at airports and fish for something. You don't have to have a school to go to. And old CFI and a guy with an under utilized 182 might be just what you're looking for.

Not trying to be preachy, but you can easily put 6 figures into flying before you know it and 3-5 years later you're worrying about passing a medical after sinking tens of thousands of bucks into the hobby. I caught my weight, blood pressure etc… creeping up and went on a mission to correct it to keep my medical after adding up the checks I've written over the years and calculating what I had to lose if I lost my medical. (Sorry, it's on my mind today, I just passed my medical after losing 30lbs and dropping my BP dramatically. 5 years ago the AME mentioned that I needed to lower my BP, today it was all normal)
 
NWADC9 said:
Is it the physical size of the OP that's the issue or the forward CG? With fuel at tabs and the weight provided, CG would most likely be beyond the forward limit without some ballast in the baggage hold.
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He'd be fine in a Bonanza, they need heavy folks up front. Finding one to do Primary training in might be an issue.
 
OP, you may try to find a 182 to train in, the cabin is a bit bigger and engine a bit more powerful.
 
Henning said:
OP, you may try to find a 182 to train in, the cabin is a bit bigger and engine a bit more powerful.
Click to expand...

I think that's his best bet. Probably not a ton of them on the flight line for PPL training at your typical PPL school. But not unheard of either.
 
NWADC9 said:
Is it the physical size of the OP that's the issue or the forward CG? With fuel at tabs and the weight provided, CG would most likely be beyond the forward limit without some ballast in the baggage hold.
Click to expand...

I routinely fly with people much larger than the FAA standard of 170/180 pounds (cherokee 180). As long as I put ballast in the baggage area (usually my 8 gal tank of water) there's not a problem with weight & balance or CG. However in close quarters, you become very close friends.

I agree with vaflier that you would probably want to use a larger airplane such such as a cessna 182.

While we're on the subject, what part of the country are you located? Someone local to you may be able to provide more information about a school or CFI that would work for you.
 
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The CFI was likely either concerned with

1. YOu locking up and her not being able to take over
2. There were actual W&B issues in the planes that they have available for students (This would be any 152/172 on the line)

You can get your Private in any airplane, although the bigger and more complex will cost you more (fuel and cost/hr), and will probably take some more hours.. But it can be done.

My question though, and don't take this the wrong way. Are you absolutely sure you can pass a medical? I ask everyone this, regardless of size. There are a lot of things that can trip up an FAA medical, that non-pilots don't normally think about.

Don't get too far down the road, find out you love it, and then have trouble getting a medical. Some things if they can be controlled (sleep apnea, some heart issues); you can get a medical, and other things are just a no-go or damn near anyway (ADHD, some drugs, multiple DUI's in your driving history)..
 
Chris,

I'm no lightweight, but my peak was around 285. Yes, you might be able to find someplace that will train you in a 182. Problem is, you'll be hard pressed to take passengers anywhere without running into weight & balance issues, and a 182 is a bloody expensive beast to fly if you're not going somewhere. At 270 I couldn't take several of my family members on a burger run in a 172 or Cherokee, because even if we were under the max gross weight we'd be out of balance with 500+ pounds in the front seats.

I feel for ya, buddy, because I'm not skinny either. But from one "well anchored" guy to another... big frame or not, flying or not, life gets easier with every pound you drop. It ain't easy, but it gets easier the more you do it.
 
I would agree with something larger than a 172 for sure, if nothing else than comforts sake.

I think if this is something you want to pursue then go for it with some understanding that you will come across airplane, weight and balance, and medical issues a lot. If it makes you feel better, I used to think I was too small to fly a 172 in my private pilot days. ;) One thing I would still do is go and talk to an aviation medical examiner but don't request a medical at that time. Ask him what challenges you may need to overcome that way you're not sinking thousands of dollars into flying when there could be problems such as high blood pressure. I will be the blunt one though, the weight will be a harsh topic. I have known some big pilots so don't loose that dream! There are people on this board that have gone through the same issues.
 
Maybe a tandem Husky guys? Ditch the side by side seating.

But like others have said, I'd make sure I can pass a medical first. I would go pay for one and see if I pass before embarking on this if I were OP.
 
Assuming you can't find a club with a 182:

1) confirm you want to fly
2) get your medical out of the way. That would still be my advice if you were 150lbs.
3) Join Cessna Pilots Association. Read up on the 182 buyers guide. Decide to buy a 182P or 182Q model.
4) shop around for a pilot who will help you evaluate planes. Shop around for an independent instructor who will fly with you. An average size instructor is fine, you can load the cargo area with ballast to make weight and balance work out
5) purchase plane. Get a good one. This will probably be the plane you fly for a while.
6) start training
7) if things don't work out, the 182 is generally a pretty easy sell, provided its in good shape without anything that scares folks off like missing logs, significant damage history, high time (>10k hrs), ratty paint/interior, ancient avionics, etc.

Good luck! Flying is definitely doable, but most typical trainers just aren't going to be fun to fly for you.
 
Thanks for all of the input.

Weight has always been the most crucial thing for me, although i fluctuate a lot, when i was at my prime in the military i was 280 lbs. Solid! now i am roughly 100 lbs over that, but not a big "beer belly" or 5 chins. My blood pressure and heart rate are all well within exeptable. My blood pressure was 128/76 the other day when checked by a nurse "my lady". My pulse and SpO2 are also right on. Capillary refill time less than 2 secs. All things considered I am very healthy but the weight is always a "concern" from my Dr.

I dont know if you can see my profile picture, but i have a picture of myself in the cockpit in the 172, I had to bend over to see the bottom of the wings. but when we did a 45 degree turn, INCREDIBLE. She let me have the controls and told me "You don't have to do a 45 if your not comfortable" My response was "Oh no...we are doing a 45!" It was just so incredible to me and so exhilerating that i wanted to do it again the very next day, i guess that is why it made it so hard to get that phone call. The view, the smells, the laughter, the takeoff, landing, all of my senses were going wild, and i just cant picture anything that could top that day. For once in my life i was able to go fast, and really experience a whole new perspective.
 
cbomia said:
It was just so incredible to me and so exhilerating that i wanted to do it again the very next day, i guess that is why it made it so hard to get that phone call. The view, the smells, the laughter, the takeoff, landing, all of my senses were going wild, and i just cant picture anything that could top that day. For once in my life i was able to go fast, and really experience a whole new perspective.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you enjoy it... By all means, move forward..

Hell, I used a 172 because it was more comfortable than a 152. And I am 180lbs..

Just make sure your medical is obtainable. Because LSA probably isn't an option for a guy of your size, and isn't an option if you fail a medical.

Do not apply for a medical, unless you get a consult first. YOu won't want to fail a medical.
 
ja_user said:
It sounds like you enjoy it... By all means, move forward..

Hell, I used a 172 because it was more comfortable than a 152. And I am 180lbs..

Just make sure your medical is obtainable. Because LSA probably isn't an option for a guy of your size, and isn't an option if you fail a medical.

Do not apply for a medical, unless you get a consult first. YOu won't want to fail a medical.
Click to expand...

Thanks, i am definately seeing from these posts that it is very important to get a consultation first. Is there an expiration on your medical? Or is it a type that you have to "report if there is a change in your medical history"?
 
cbomia said:
Thanks, i am definately seeing from these posts that it is very important to get a consultation first. Is there an expiration on your medical? Or is it a type that you have to "report if there is a change in your medical history"?
Click to expand...

You have to report things like an arrest for DUI. If you're under 40, it's good for 5 years. 3 years if you're over 40 when you take it. It's no big deal. Took my 2nd ever medical today. Here's my write up. :D http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1431513
 
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is no big deal, one medication on the fail list and you are not flying...

Just need to make sure everything is lined up, and properly vented before going.
 
ja_user said:
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is no big deal, one medication on the fail list and you are not flying...

Just need to make sure everything is lined up, and properly vented before going.
Click to expand...

They don't make you run an obstacle course, it's typically a routine visit to the Dr that's over in half an hour. It's not like you have to train for 6 months to pass… that's what I meant by "no big deal". If you know what to expect, it's no big deal. If you have been on adderal for the past 20 years with 4 DUIs, its gonna be a bigger deal.
 
bartmc said:
They don't make you run an obstacle course, it's typically a routine visit to the Dr that's over in half an hour. It's not like you have to train for 6 months to pass… that's what I meant by "no big deal". If you know what to expect, it's no big deal. If you have been on adderal for the past 20 years with 4 DUIs, its gonna be a bigger deal.
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Yeah, but that is what most people aren't expecting. It isn't your typical docs physical.

The fact that you can run at all has no bearing on the outcome... The medicines and medical history, as well as the sugar/pee test are the more important factors..

But to clarify, if you have been on any ADD/ADHD drugs, ever.. Then you are going to have some work to do.
 
ja_user said:
Yeah, but that is what most people aren't expecting. It isn't your typical docs physical.

The fact that you can run at all has no bearing on the outcome... The medicines and medical history, as well as the sugar/pee test are the more important factors..

But to clarify, if you have been on any ADD/ADHD drugs, ever.. Then you are going to have some work to do.
Click to expand...

I have never had to take any medications prescribed by the Dr other than the ocassional Amoxicillan. So i hope that is acceptable as far as that part of it.
 
cbomia said:
Hello all,

My name is Chris and I am roughly 400 lbs at 6'4". I took my Discovery flight on Sunday and the flight instructor called me today and said she would be unable to train me because of my size. I am an ex-football player, i have no medical issues, i have a very large frame though. Are their any schools that will work around that, or am i just dreaming the impossible.
Click to expand...

The big problems will be:
1) Physical size and reaching everything
2) W&B issues
3) Load limits for the seats.

I know of at least one DPE who had to turn an applicant away (did not accept their money), simply because they were over the structural load limit for the seats (350lb IIRC). DPE was open to flying, but said until they got a waiver letter from the manufacturer saying they wouldn't overstress the seats, the DPE couldn't fly with them due to safety issues.
 
Don't volunteer information or get real 'chatty' with your Dr. if you go OP.

Keep it yes or no.

My class III medical I went for after about a ten year break, and getting back into flying, I mentioned to the doc I use cheaters in low light to read with before I took the eye test. Even though I passed the eyesight test with flying colors, and the nurse said I don't need glasses, the Dr. put "must have corrective eyewear in possesion" stipulation on my ticket.
 
Get a Tampico (TB9).
It has a nice extra wide cabin.
545 in the front seats and full fuel is within CG and 26 pounds under gross. (Plus at 6' 4" your seat is farther aft than the station used for the calculations. You are right at the front CG limit as calculated, but are really a bit farther away from the limits due to seat position.)
 
cbomia said:
Hello all,

My name is Chris and I am roughly 400 lbs at 6'4". I took my Discovery flight on Sunday and the flight instructor called me today and said she would be unable to train me because of my size. Here I am now with a pilot log with .5 hours signed off and on the computer looking for options. We were pretty tight in the cockpit at first but it seemed to get more comfortable as we adjusted around. We flew a cessna 172 out of Lenawee County Airport. My instructor was a smaller woman, maybe 145 lbs soaking wet. She had an occurence with another trainee that was 300 lbs starting to land and he "locked up" and she couldn't get the controls away from him. I understand her fear, she said all of my turns were very smooth and well controlled and that i had a "nac" for flying. I am an ex-football player, i have no medical issues, i have a very large frame though. Are their any schools that will work around that, or am i just dreaming the impossible. I am open to honesty, and I never like to give up. Any and all responses will be helpful. I live in South East Michigan and would love to learn from a school close by.
Click to expand...
You flew with Jo?

I don't have a lot of experience with the other airports around there, but there is more than one operation at Ann Arbor ARB (http://www.michiganflyers.org/ is one I would suggest checking out). Toledo Suburban DUH (Lamertville) is not far, Monroe TTF has a 172. You could check at Fulton County USE, Hillsdale JVM , Techumseh 3TE, Toledo Express TOL and Toledo Exec TDZ. Grosse Ile ONZ is probably a bit of a hike for you if you started in Adrian. Airnav.com can be used to look up the names of the schools at those airports.

Send a private message to Saracelica http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/member.php?u=8158 - she should know about some of the options down there in the corner of the state.
 
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I am just shy of 6'2" and currently just over 250. A year ago I was 333. My recommendation do the hard work, use flying as the motivation and get your weight down. That is what I did. I am flying again after 20 years off.

You can say you have a big frame (and I believe you) but in the end 400 lbs is not a healthy weight even at 6'4" even if you were completely ripped. I am not saying you need to get down to BMI chart weight that is not realistic but 250-275 is a lot better than 400 or even 300 and you mentioned in the post above you have been that weight before.

You can say you are a healthy "big" guy (and I believe you). I also am betting you are fairly young. The toll that weight takes on your body joints and such is not good when you get older. How many 70 year old 6'4" 400 pounders do you see? The answer is none.

Just some advice from a guy who has fought weight his whole life, whose old man died in his early 60s and was bed ridden most of his life because he was massively obese, who has a brother and sister who both had gastric bypass, and who every day is just fighting the good fight the best he can. Lose the weight you will be glad you did. Advice worth what you paid for it.

Good luck.
 
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marcoseddi said:
Funny no one asked where are you from?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Perhaps...:D

cbomia said:
Hello all,

My name is Chris and I am roughly 400 lbs at 6'4". I took my Discovery flight on Sunday and the flight instructor called me today and said she would be unable to train me because of my size. Here I am now with a pilot log with .5 hours signed off and on the computer looking for options. We were pretty tight in the cockpit at first but it seemed to get more comfortable as we adjusted around. We flew a cessna 172 out of Lenawee County Airport. My instructor was a smaller woman, maybe 145 lbs soaking wet. She had an occurence with another trainee that was 300 lbs starting to land and he "locked up" and she couldn't get the controls away from him. I understand her fear, she said all of my turns were very smooth and well controlled and that i had a "nac" for flying. I am an ex-football player, i have no medical issues, i have a very large frame though. Are their any schools that will work around that, or am i just dreaming the impossible. I am open to honesty, and I never like to give up. Any and all responses will be helpful. I live in South East Michigan and would love to learn from a school close by.
Click to expand...
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
You flew with Jo?

I don't have a lot of experience with the other airports around there, but there is more than one operation at Ann Arbor ARB (http://www.michiganflyers.org/ is one I would suggest checking out). Toledo Suburban DUH (Lamertville) is not far, Monroe TTF has a 172. You could check at Fulton County USE, Hillsdale JVM , Techumseh 3TE, Toledo Express TOL and Toledo Exec TDZ. Grosse Ile ONZ is probably a bit of a hike for you if you started in Adrian. Airnav.com can be used to look up the names of the schools at those airports.

Send a private message to Saracelica http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/member.php?u=8158 - she should know about some of the options down there in the corner of the state.
Click to expand...

Yea i flew with Jo. She was super nice but I guess she had a bad experience. ..
 
DFH65 said:
I am just shy of 6'2" and currently just over 250. A year ago I was 333. My recommendation do the hard work, use flying as the motivation and get your weight down. That is what I did. I am flying again after 20 years off.

You can say you have a big frame (and I believe you) but in the end 400 lbs is not a healthy weight even at 6'4" even if you were completely ripped. I am not saying you need to get down to BMI chart weight that is not realistic but 250-275 is a lot better than 400 or even 300 and you mentioned in the post above you have been that weight before.

You can say you are a healthy "big" guy (and I believe you). I also am betting you are fairly young. The toll that weight takes on your body joints and such is not good when you get older. How many 70 year old 6'4" 400 pounders do you see? The answer is none.

Just some advice from a guy who has fought weight his whole life, whose old man died in his early 60s and was bed ridden most of his life because he was massively obese, who has a brother and sister who both had gastric bypass, and who every day is just fighting the good fight the best he can. Lose the weight you will be glad you did. Advice worth what you paid for it.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Yea i am 24 and I definitely do need to lose the weight just to be healthier and happier. It is definitely embarrassing when you try to do things an average person can do, and are restricted by seat size, things of that nature. My lifestyle also doesn't help. I work 12 hour days in an automotive factory and barely get enough sleep let alone pack my lunch in a "healthy" way everyday. I work a swing shift 7 on 2 off. I have tried to pre make all of my meals for the week but just run out before the work week is over and resort on fast food to get me to my next day off. It is going to be a struggle always has and I am sure will be. I just have to stay focused on setting smaller goals I think instead of pursuing a big goal and setting myself up for failure.
 
Try Paleo, don't eat sugar or grains(rules out most processed food.) Don't be afraid of fat, fat is good. All the delicious protein you want. At your age get your body burning fat and you will be styling quick.
cbomia said:
Yea i am 24 and I definitely do need to lose the weight just to be healthier and happier. It is definitely embarrassing when you try to do things an average person can do, and are restricted by seat size, things of that nature. My lifestyle also doesn't help. I work 12 hour days in an automotive factory and barely get enough sleep let alone pack my lunch in a "healthy" way everyday. I work a swing shift 7 on 2 off. I have tried to pre make all of my meals for the week but just run out before the work week is over and resort on fast food to get me to my next day off. It is going to be a struggle always has and I am sure will be. I just have to stay focused on setting smaller goals I think instead of pursuing a big goal and setting myself up for failure.
Click to expand...
 
NWADC9 said:
Is it the physical size of the OP that's the issue or the forward CG?
Click to expand...
It sounds like the issue is just that one particular instructor's concern that due to her own small size and strength, she would not be able to fulfill her responsibilities with someone as large and strong as the OP in a cockpit that small. A larger cockpit (say, a Cessna 182 instead of a 172) and a more physically robust instructor might work. Go back to the school and ask about those possibilities.
 
cbomia said:
Thanks, i am definately seeing from these posts that it is very important to get a consultation first. Is there an expiration on your medical? Or is it a type that you have to "report if there is a change in your medical history"?
Click to expand...
Medical certificates are valid for anywhere from six months to five years, depending on your age and the type of flying you do (personal, professional, or air transport) as well as any significant medical conditions you may have, before you have to go back for a new exam. As you are under 40, yours will be good for personal flying for five years as long as you have no serious medical issues requiring shorter duration between exams.

That said, given your weight, I suspect that you will develop such issues as you get older unless you get your weight down substantially. Now's the time to make some radical changes in your life (diet, sleep, and physical exercise) if you want to grow old gracefully.
 
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Ron Levy said:
It sounds like the issue is just that one particular instructor's concern that due to her own small size and strength, she would not be able to fulfill her responsibilities with someone as large and strong as the OP in a cockpit that small. A larger cockpit (say, a Cessna 182 instead of a 172) and a more physically robust instructor might work. Go back to the school and ask about those possibilities.
Click to expand...

I did ask her that and the largest aircraft she had was 172 and her other instructors wouldn't be able to fit with me.
 
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