To Waas or not to Waas?

Mtns, if you’re gonna get the 345, just get the waas version and be done with it, forget the tail cone thang.
 
eman1200 said:
Mtns, if you’re gonna get the 345, just get the waas version and be done with it, forget the tail cone thang.
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I'm not going to get the 345 though? Err not the GTX345, but the audio panel GMA345.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I'm not going to get the 345 though? Err not the GTX345, but the audio panel GMA345.
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Ah, gotcha. Anyways, I was gonna edit that to say that might not make the most sense if ur gonna get the 650, which would also be waas.
 
eman1200 said:
Ah, gotcha. Anyways, I was gonna edit that to say that might not make the most sense if ur gonna get the 650, which would also be waas.
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Yeah but the 650 might end up being lower in priorities than engine fund, interior and paint. So may be a while before I get it installed i.e after 2020.
 
Lots of good stuff here. Just some random thoughts.

Consider waiting until you finish your IR (or quit) and see how the world looks to you then. You will definitely have a better sense of what you intend to do in the sky then.

Yes, there’s no such thing as casual IFR unless you want to kill yourself. Doesn’t mean it can’t be comfortably done but it requires some commitment.

Do you see yourself flying the 180 10 years from now? Does it seem like your ‘lifetime’ plane? If you can’t answer, get your IR And think again then.

You are asking good questions and coming with good answers... keep it up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
jordane93 said:
Seems like you don’t really need it for your mission. I’d just spend the leftover money on more gas.
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Alright. I've come to a new resolution. I have a Skywagon - a badass bush plane that I'm primarily taking into backcountry strips. I've been flying this plane VFR across the country for the past 4 months and have 450 hours of VFR flights that are not just around the pattern without the need for an IR. I'm going to get a JPI830, New Audio Panel, and a couple newer radios. All I want to be able to do is shoot an ILS if I'm REALLY stuck on top and maintain my IFR currency. If I'm going places where I need IFR - It shouldn't be in a single engine plane. I plan on renting a multi anyway for longer trips so I'll leave the complex avionics for something where I'll use them. I don't need to go down the endless rabbit hole of nice IFR avionics... that I likely wouldn't use very often anyway. I already have an Aera 660 which I love for VFR use.

It sounds like after training I'll rarely fly IFR to begin with, then even rarer will be the need for Waas. Definitely not worth 15k+ when I have other upgrades that need to be done - i.e Paint, interior and remainder of engine fund.

I don't need to pretend I'm flying a Cirrus.

JPI830
GMA345
GNC225/SL30
GTR225/SL40
Uavionix Tailbeacon
 
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Mtns2Skies said:
Alright. I've come to a new resolution. I have a Skywagon - a badass bush plane that I'm primarily taking into backcountry strips. I've been flying this plane VFR across the country for the past 4 months and have 450 hours of VFR flights that are not just around the pattern without the need for an IR. I'm going to get a JPI830, New Audio Panel, and a couple newer radios. All I want to be able to do is shoot an ILS if I'm REALLY stuck on top and maintain my IFR currency. If I'm going places where I need IFR - It shouldn't be in a single engine plane. I plan on renting a multi anyway for longer trips so I'll leave the complex avionics for something where I'll use them. I don't need to go down the endless rabbit hole of nice IFR avionics... that I likely wouldn't use very often anyway. I already have an Aera 660 which I love for VFR use.

It sounds like after training I'll rarely fly IFR to begin with, then even rarer will be the need for Waas. Definitely not worth 15k+ when I have other upgrades that need to be done - i.e Paint, interior and remainder of engine fund.

I don't need to pretend I'm flying a Cirrus.
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What a spoilsport. :p
After raising all our expectations of a 180 with a panel worth more than the rest of the airplane! :D

There outta be rules about this sort of thing.
Reported...
 
James331 said:
I’m all for WAAS, but I’m not for misinformation.

64_BD650_B-_DD49-4_DC3-875_E-1_F46_CCE26230.png


This is just one example, non WAAS will get you below the ceiling on most IFR days, and on the few days you would need to drop that extra 200ish feet, many hobby pilots who don’t fly a lot of IFR ain’t going to be comfy flying those few days anyways.
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That's great if you are flying to Syracuse, but I don't base there, and they have an ILS anyway, so you don't even need GPS to get in there IFR. At KVGC, nestled in the glacial hills and valleys, the LNAV approaches are 900-1 and 1000-1 1/4 depending on runway. So if it's really IFR, you are going to RME or SYR without LPV capability. The VOR approach, when it is not NA, is worse. WAAS was a godsend for our airport. We were among the first to get these low DA LPVs about a decade(?) ago. The only places I have flown an actual missed is...at my home base, off the VOR-A.

It sure is nice to have a 250 or 350 ft DA when the forecast isn't what was expected.
 
I dunno but now for some reason I feel like more words should have double a’s.

mscaard
cole slaaw
aangle of aataack (AAoAA)
bonaanzaa
 
denverpilot said:
Sooner or later if you think you have a cakewalk IFR flight and forecast, it’ll go to crap, and you’ll be shooting an approach to minimums.
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Amen to that! I learned that on my first IFR flight after getting my rating. It was a nice trip to BHB from central NY in September VFR conditions. About 75 miles out of BHB, a squall line about 100 miles west started pulling cold Atlantic air inland-not in the forecast-resulting in the formation of thick low lying advection clouds. By the time I neared BHB there was a solid undercast with 2000 foot ceilings. I was #7 for the ILS and by the time I lined up for the ILS it was 1000 feet and still dropping. And that was a "VFR" day. If you launch IFR expecting 500-2 at your destination, you better be prepared for IFR minimums because you never know...
 
Well my #1 radio is doing an uncommanded xmit and my #2 VOR is intermittent. I don't think my old crappy narco's are worth putting any more money into to try and fix this. Today I'm going to put a deposit down to be added to the avionics shop's waitlist. The final verdict on avionics is:

JPI730 - Installed by my A&P next week. I had to take advantage of an OSH deal.
GMA342
GNC255
GTR225
GI-106 (CDI)
GTX327
ADSB

Unfortunately it looks like my IR training is going to have to wait until I get my new panel. :frown:
 
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My little KLN90B does everything I need to do IFR wise. It would be nice to be able to fly LPV and VNAV approaches as those are more common than an ILS now. It is a PITA to install a GPS and to make room for one in the panel in some planes. I think I would save a few months for a WAAS unit before paying to have a non waas unit installed. Of course that logic can quickly mothball. I am surprised people are still buying used 430W for 7-8k when you can get the newer GTN650 or IFD440 for 3-4k more.
 
Unit74 said:
Well, a 430W is going for around $7k. Only a fool would buy one when a 650 could be had for $2k more. Sure, it's $2k. But look at what you are getting. Not to mention, the GNS days are numbered. The GTN will be supported for a long time going forward. Both installs will be the same.
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A GTN-650 is closer to $4 grand (more for a certified unit), but your point is well understood and still stands.

Knowing 3 guys who recently installed GNS-430's... Their decision point was Garmin dealers are very busy and asking a premium for new installs. Some dealers are only doing full panel upgrades. GNS products don't require a Garmin dealer to install. Our field has an A&P who teaches Avionics installs at the local A&P school, and installs GNS's on the side.
 
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Alright I'm going to turn this thread into "my panel upgrade thread".

Just a data point for anyone expecting to do an upgrade.

JPI730 was 2400 (with add-ons) and 8 hours of labor for EGT/CHT, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp.

Component cost only: $9500
GMA342
GNC255
GTR225
GTX327
GI-106a

I'll be doing the GDL82 in the future for ADSB (once I've paid off this upgrade), and the shop is going to pre-wire everything for it. They're also going to add a panel fan, avionics master switch, replace my CB's, and wire up an intercom/PTT. They only want my plane for 5 days towards the end of September and I'll have a number for what labor cost as well... and pictures of my new radio stack :).
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Alright I'm going to turn this thread into "my panel upgrade thread".

Just a data point for anyone expecting to do an upgrade.

JPI730 was 2400 (with add-ons) and 8 hours of labor for EGT/CHT, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp.

Component cost only: $9500
GMA342
GNC255
GTR225
GTX327
GI-106a

I'll be doing the GDL82 in the future for ADSB (once I've paid off this upgrade), and the shop is going to pre-wire everything for it. They're also going to add a panel fan, avionics master switch, replace my CB's, and wire up an intercom/PTT. They only want my plane for 5 days towards the end of September and I'll have a number for what labor cost as well... and pictures of my new radio stack :).
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The GNC 255 is fantastic. Good choice. Will set you up very nicely if you decide to throw in a GTN later down the road.
 
CC268 said:
The GNC 255 is fantastic. Good choice. Will set you up very nicely if you decide to throw in a GTN later down the road.
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Yeah I'll have a GA35 antenna from the GDL82, and a biiiig hole in my panel that a GTN625 (No nav or comm) will fill quite nicely one day...

But for now I'll just be happy to have working radios and an intercom.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Yeah I'll have a GA35 antenna from the GDL82, and a biiiig hole in my panel that a GTN625 (No nav or comm) will fill quite nicely one day...

But for now I'll just be happy to have working radios and an intercom.
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I didn't even know there was a GTN625 lol
 
Just out of curiosity did you decide on the GTX327/GDL82 to just stay all Garmin avionics?
 
 
idahoflier said:
Just out of curiosity did you decide on the GTX327/GDL82 to just stay all Garmin avionics?
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Yes and no. To answer this I have to first answer GTX335 vs GTX 327. I decided on the 327 in order to defer the cost of ADSB out a year since it's not necessary until 2020 and I'm stretched thin to do these avionics in the first place.

Now to address uavionix vs the GDL82. Staying all Garmin is certainly one factor, but additionally the GDL82 has come down significantly in price and is now 1695 at many places vs 2000 for the tailbeacon. Additonally, the GDL82 comes with a GA35 antenna built into the price which sets me up well for any future GPS upgrade I may do. So for $300 less money I get $600 more product than the uavionix.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Yes and no. To answer this I have to first answer GTX335 vs GTX 327.
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OK. Was just curious as I debated what to do with ADSB and I went with a Stratus ESGi about a year ago. So far it's worked well, but for some reason I like to reevaluate whether it was the right choice...
 
idahoflier said:
OK. Was just curious as I debated what to do with ADSB and I went with a Stratus ESGi about a year ago. So far it's worked well, but for some reason I like to reevaluate whether it was the right choice...
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Great choice if you ever want to fly outside the US post 2020. The GDL-82 is 978 out and won't be good for that trip.
 
Looks like they're playing around with the 1090 frequency, but they're also keeping their radars in the southern part for now. If they move to adopt it, it'll probably be 1090 like every other country that is looking at it. No idea what Mexico or Caribbean islands are doing though.
 
for value and capability it is hard to beat the garmin 480 (all are WAAS) or 430 WAAS
 
I have a 430W with a GTX-345 transponder. Love it. Also installed a FlightStream 210 and can bidirectionally sync flight plans between the 430W and ForeFlight instantly.

BTW, 1090Mhz is the global standard with only US adopting 978mhz aircraft flying below 19,000'. Other countries are considering adding 978 to also transmit traffic and weather like the US.

One of the reasons the GTX345 is so poplar it transmits and receives ADS-B traffic on 1090 and receives ADS-B traffic and weather on 978.
 
jeff Allen said:
for value and capability it is hard to beat the garmin 480 (all are WAAS) or 430 WAAS
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It is a great box but Garmin has said they are running out of parts and, at some point, they will no longer repair them.
 
Woohoo! Plane is IN the avionics shop! Hopefully will be done next Friday.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
That is the question.

So @RDUPilot .... In 10 years will I be able to get in anywhere just using RNAV and ILS?

If I can save money on the GPS, I'm going to get a sweeeet engine monitor.........
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The question you should be asking yourself is, "in 10 years will any manufacturers be supporting an IFR non-WAAS GPS?" You're gonna need WAAS anyway. Since you're considering buying an IFR certified GPS, why not buy WAAS instead of cobbling together a ADS-B with discreet WAAS and a separate IFR non-WAAS GPS?
 
wilkersk said:
The question you should be asking yourself is, "in 10 years will any manufacturers be supporting an IFR non-WAAS GPS?" You're gonna need WAAS anyway. Since you're considering buying an IFR certified GPS, why not buy WAAS instead of cobbling together a ADS-B with discreet WAAS and a separate IFR non-WAAS GPS?
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It's really a moot point. You'll see later in the thread that I elected for option "C". No IFR GPS. Wallet mandated option :).
 
NordicDave said:
I have a 430W with a GTX-345 transponder. Love it. Also installed a FlightStream 210 and can bidirectionally sync flight plans between the 430W and ForeFlight instantly..
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Can you key in a airway based flight plan into ForeFlight and have it ‘translated’ into waypoints on the G430?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
Bill Watson said:
Can you key in a airway based flight plan into ForeFlight and have it ‘translated’ into waypoints on the G430?
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Yes. Airway based flight plans in ForeFlight can be directly uploaded to 430/530's via FS210's. Works like a champ. They are translated to the waypoints along the route. Also flight plans in the 430 can flow back to ForeFlight with 1 pop-up button acknowledgment on the iPad.
 
Just about done. They're doing the final ground run and compass swing test tomorrow. If no problems then I get to pick it up thurs or Fri. No bill yet... And there were a few complications but I'll get into that when I let you know how empty my wallet is.
Before:
IMG_20180822_170707.jpg
After:

IMG_20181107_154429.jpg
 
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How are u gonna fly that with no G5???
 
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