To mask or not to mask?

[tspear]

Considering only 15-20% of a COVID infections require advanced medical care, why not require only those in this vulnerable group to wear masks and/or full PPE plus be quarantined instead of the 80% who are not affected? There's plenty of data out there that describes who is in this 20% group which can include anyone who even "thinks" they are vulnerable. This would more efficiently redirect those items listed in your #1 and reduce the testing requirements in #3 to only those who interact with this vulnerable group. And it also moves herd immunity forward. But most importantly it puts the onus to use masks, PPE, and remain locked down on those who have the most to lose via COVID vs the population in general.

Because we do not know. Morbidity factors and age both increase the chance of someone being hospitalized or dying.
However, it is not limited to that group. There an many members of the active duty military who are hospitalized because of COVID-19. This is likely a younger and healthier group than the general public.
There have also been cases where young kids have died.

Basically, at this point we have rather limited knowledge who the virus is likely to kill and how. There are constantly evolving symptoms and proximate causes for death. For example, a recent one is that asthma was initially considered a major predictor of likely respiratory problems and considered part of the vulnerable class. But instead diabetes is now showing up as a much riskier group, and asthma is not considered a significant risk factor any longer. Note: this is based on what the docs passed on who treated my father.

Tim

 

[cgrab]

We had a family Zoom. My brother the retired immunologist, my niece the ER doctor and my other niece the surgeon gave this advice:
1. Take care of yourself and those close to you with a properly worn mask.
2. Avoid standing in crowds of unknown people. Stay upwind and keep moving.
3. Avoid dust (which lingers in the air longer than water droplets) including indoors and polluted cities.
4. If you get sick find a doctor willing to experiment. Most of the drugs being tested work when used early.
5. Studies show that fatalities occur in the old and the obese. If you are either than self quarantine.

It looks like POTUS found a doctor willing to give him an off script drug he believes helps with prevention

 

[tspear]

It looks like POTUS found a doctor willing to give him an off script drug he believes helps with prevention

Yup. And there are very few people who have the wealth or government backing who can be so closely monitored that they can take a drug which has causes potential cardiac issues.

Tim

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

google it....there are dozens of articles. I didn't want to bore you with the links. It was the "first" infection in the Boston area.

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=biogen+covid+outbreak

Did you read the article?

Nothing in the article states that the speaker was the source of the others' infections.

Nothing in the article states that the speaker was female, nor anything else about the speaker.

Nothing in the article states that all of the people infected were at the meeting. (That may be the case, but the article states only that the infections were "linked to" the meeting, which is vague. It may include spouses of attendees, etc.)

Nothing in the article states that there was no hand-shaking or physical contact at the meeting, as you asserted in your previous post.

Nothing in the article mentioned the physical size of the room, the spacing of chairs and tables, etc.

Nothing in the article mentioned a suspected mode of transmission.

The article doesn't mention whether there were meals or refreshments served. An infected waiter or busboy could just as easily have been the source of infection by respiratory and/or contact spread, even if nothing was served except water. (The ice machine is actually the most dangerous machine in a commercial kitchen in terms of pathogens. The dishwasher is a close second.)

I suspect you have some other knowledge about this conference or posted a different link than the one you meant to, because the linked article simply does not back up your assertions in any way.

Rich

 

[denverpilot]

Yup. And there are very few people who have the wealth or government backing who can be so closely monitored that they can take a drug which has causes potential cardiac issues.

Tim

A tad sensationalist. That stuff is lupus candy and easily 70% of my private sarcoidosis group is on it or has been.

Main real risk is eyesight. It becomes toxic to the eyes after about five years at the 400mg daily level, and 10 years at 200mg.

During initial three months you probably want a slit test at the least and again at six and laser retinal and blood vessel imagery if you can get it. After that it’s annual.

Depending on side effects, which are usually gastrointestinal, people come off of it or end up on it for life in sarcoid patients.

It’s been around for 60 years. There’s really no real surprises with it. Thousands are sent home with it with no specific heart concerns or special monitoring.

No comment on effectiveness against the virus or its side effects, just not buying the side effects stories of people not taking it or non-MDs, judging by the mass number of folks on it in my groups and they’re talking quite a bit about it right now... seeing if anybody is having stupidity trying to fill their scripts, etc.

Might be fun to look up the exact percentage with each side effect though. Not sure I’m that bored.

“Anal leakage” is listed on most drugs that passed FDA approval. Gotta list em all!

 

[RJM62]

. . . .

Haha. There we will likely disagree. Since I work on statistical analysis of neural data for a living I naturally have a different view. Probability and statistics are what we use to properly describe a world in which most things are probabilistic. (Though I do understand how they can be used in very misleading ways -- especially in public policy.)

Honestly, I think what we need if we want to make any sense of these data are some medical anthropologists. So many of the data points have little meaning without context.

I think anthropologists would also come in handy in terms of formulating policy. Professionals in general tend to be myopic, and scientists even more so; but anthropologists are a peculiar exception because their profession is interdisciplinary by design.

Rich

 

[Winged_Splinter]

this part I don't understand either.. especially if children are far less likely to be hygienic in general, especially when it comes to covering their mouth when they cough, and (from what I understand) more likely to asymptomatically spread it..


hyperbole perhaps, but it's not that you can't get sick when you are eating, but that you can't eat when you're wearing a mask

Are that many people honestly interested in breathing in what other people are breathing out? Clothes are also required to be worn but we're not up in arms over that. The mask thing doesn't bother me, nor do I see it as some of kind of constitutional affront to our rights. When someone does a little crop dusting on a plane after a heavy bean burrito all the aisles back and forth for several rows smell like A$$... you're literally inhaling little tiny bits of A$$ particles.. and, usually, people smell it and breath through their shirt or try to cover their mouth somehow, IE, your body saying "that's disgusting, we need some extra filtration please" <- I bet if coronavirus droplets had an odor people would be much more willing to wear a mask

There are many things with this pandemic that don't make sense.. *MANY*, but asking people to wash their hands and wear a mask when they're near someone else doesn't seem outlandish

A car rental shop closing at 3 instead of 5, that doesn't make sense.. a beach being open from 2-6 doesn't make sense.. but asking people to wear a mask when they're near a crowded place with other people.. what's wrong with that?

Plus, even if it's not likely to kill you, who wants to be sick with flu like (or often worse) symptoms for 2-6 weeks. No thanks.

Yes, it was hyperbole. I was just venting. I won't refuse to wear the mask, but if I'm going to be required to wear one, I might as well make one that I like.

But as for the wearing of masks around crowded places - people didn't stop going to Walmart and grocery stores and 90% in my area doesn't wear them. Only people wearing them are the people working, not the people shopping and it sure seems like those businesses got more crowded when this whole thing started. I live in TN and we've already opened back up. Restaurants are open, tattoo places are open and attractions will be open the 23rd.

Simple fact is people who are more prone to getting it should take the proper precautions, those like me who aren't should practice good hygiene. Imo.

 

[RJM62]

google it....there are dozens of articles. I didn't want to bore you with the links. It was the "first" infection in the Boston area.

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=biogen+covid+outbreak

Nah. In all candor, it's really not that important to me. This is starting to feel like a religious discussion in which what one believes matters more than what they do. I'll just take your word for it.

Rich

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

yup....you want to be spoon fed. I got it. lol

 

[GrummanBear]

A friend of the family...their daughter works in a nursing home. She and a bunch of her coworkers tested positive. Apparently they were reusing masks and wearing rain coats .....and something went wrong. They obviously weren't cleaning them properly or not properly fitted.

30 of the 40 residents on her wing were positive for COVID.

My mother-in-law is a dietician in a NY nursing home. She got it (mild fever, then on with her life). Most of her coworkers got it. 70% of the residents got it. They used and continue to use masks religiously. The masks are required, and I suppose also make them feel safer. But maybe they just don't really work. 70% infection of The Masked isn't a good look for the mask sect.

We have about 20 providers from the ER here coming over for beer pong and social connecting Friday. 100% guarantee they won't be showing up with face scabbards.

Almost 10,000 Texans died from the flu last year. About 1,400 Texans from Covid at this point. Beat it with a stick all you want...those are the numbers here. The low number certainly isn't from a shut down or PPE - it has barely slowed down here. Maybe it's Vitamin D, or the Alamo as a talisman. Seriously, who knows. @RJM62 is right. The whole mess is looking more like a religious thing. Call me an agnostic in this one.

 

[Brad W]

My mother-in-law is a dietician in a NY nursing home. She got it (mild fever, then on with her life). Most of her coworkers got it. 70% of the residents got it. They used and continue to use masks religiously. The masks are required, and I suppose also make them feel safer. But maybe they just don't really work. 70% infection of The Masked isn't a good look for the mask sect.

seems to me this is kinda like sticking your masked face into a dish washer...where the water drops are germs. A very germ saturated environment.
Even still, that is a very surface touch heavy sort of place too...bound to be a lot of subconscious face touching. Maybe not the mask's fault

 

[tspear]

A tad sensationalist. That stuff is lupus candy and easily 70% of my private sarcoidosis group is on it or has been.

Main real risk is eyesight. It becomes toxic to the eyes after about five years at the 400mg daily level, and 10 years at 200mg.

During initial three months you probably want a slit test at the least and again at six and laser retinal and blood vessel imagery if you can get it. After that it’s annual.

Depending on side effects, which are usually gastrointestinal, people come off of it or end up on it for life in sarcoid patients.

It’s been around for 60 years. There’s really no real surprises with it. Thousands are sent home with it with no specific heart concerns or special monitoring.

No comment on effectiveness against the virus or its side effects, just not buying the side effects stories of people not taking it or non-MDs, judging by the mass number of folks on it in my groups and they’re talking quite a bit about it right now... seeing if anybody is having stupidity trying to fill their scripts, etc.

Might be fun to look up the exact percentage with each side effect though. Not sure I’m that bored.

“Anal leakage” is listed on most drugs that passed FDA approval. Gotta list em all!

Those are the minor side effects. Search and look for the major ones. You will see liver issues, heart arithmia (sp?), And many other serious side effects. Occurance is low, but they occur.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

 

[Groundpounder]

I have a trip planned and booked for the end of August. I'm hoping the face mask policy is over by then. I received an email today from Delta saying they are requiring face masks on your entire trip to your destination, the exemptions include children, and when you are having a meal. So apparently you are immune from the virus as long as you are eating something. Then there is the information about wearing them through high traffic areas like security lines. Guess the days of being harassed for wearing a mask of some sort through security are over.

Me and a friend were thinking of going to Florida in June. SWA has tickets for $55 each way from my home airport, but I am strongly considering taking the Bonanza at much higher cost just to avoid the mask dog and pony show. I also heard a rumor that the TSA is going to start taking everyone's temperature. They are violating my rights enough already, they aren't going anywhere near me with medical equipment.

 

[MyDimeIsUp]

Me and a friend were thinking of going to Florida in June. SWA has tickets for $55 each way from my home airport, but I am strongly considering taking the Bonanza at much higher cost just to avoid the mask dog and pony show. I also heard a rumor that the TSA is going to start taking everyone's temperature. They are violating my rights enough already, they aren't going anywhere near me with medical equipment.

I don't understand how using a thermal-imaging camera to check your temperature is worse than the x-rays and 360-full-body x-rays some airports have, or rather even a problem of violating rights at all. It is for everyone else's safety for the time being.

 

[Groundpounder]

I don't understand how using a thermal-imaging camera to check your temperature is worse than the x-rays and 360-full-body x-rays some airports have, or rather even a problem of violating rights at all. It is for everyone else's safety for the time being.

It's worse because it's people without medical training performing a medical procedure. Just as invasive as the nudie-scan, but at least they are security people doing a "security" procedure.

 

[MyDimeIsUp]

It's worse because it's people without medical training performing a medical procedure. Just as invasive as the nudie-scan, but at least they are security people doing a "security" procedure.

We will have dedicated medical pros doing this. Not TSA agents

 

[cgrab]

I (partially) read a study that said COVID patients stated they had a loss of taste/smell more frequently than an elevated temperature prior to onset of other symptoms. Would it make sense to have several flavored aerosols and spray them in the air and ask patrons what they smell before allowing them to enter a store. Those who can't identify the smell will be denied entry. OK, I have no idea what lavender smells like but maybe if I have a multiple choice I could pass.

 

[denverpilot]

Those are the minor side effects. Search and look for the major ones. You will see liver issues, heart arithmia (sp?), And many other serious side effects. Occurance is low, but they occur.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

Which nobody who’s sent home with it has any special monitoring for... like I said, your statement was silly.

I believe Karen said her hospital handed out something like 60,000 doses of the stuff last year. Ha. I wasn’t paying attention to whatever timeframe she mentioned a couple of days ago.

But the politics of it caused it to be mentioned as “this drug isn’t a big deal, folks - and yeah we’re part of the testing of this and many other treatments” as part of a larger regular status messaging campaign in company wide emails about virus related stuff, to the third largest hospital system in the country’s staff.

 

[weilke]

Almost 10,000 Texans died from the flu last year. About 1,400 Texans from Covid at this point. Beat it with a stick all you want...those are the numbers here. The low number certainly isn't from a shut down or PPE - it has barely slowed down here. Maybe it's Vitamin D, or the Alamo as a talisman. Seriously, who knows. @RJM62 is right. The whole mess is looking more like a religious thing. Call me an agnostic in this one.

Well, TX isn't half way done with this.

First two graphs are the raw case numbers and reported deaths as of 5/20.



Next is your number of hospitalizations:



At best you can say hospitalizations are on a plateau.

As for the explanation that 'the numbers are going up because we do more testing', well the data doesn't support that. Next graph are the total number of tests and the positivity rate. You are doing a little bit more testing, but there is certainly no great 'testing surge' that would explain a change in case numbers.




I calculated 'crude' case fatality rates for TX based on the dept of health data on 5/18. This is straight 'fatalities by age bracket vs cases by identical age brackets'. This is not an 'infection fatality rate', this is just basic ratio between the two.

<1yr 0%
1-9yr 0%
10-19 0.46%
20-29 0.45%
30-39 0.35%
40-49 0.79%
50-59 2.06%
60-69 5.49%
70-79 10.18%
80+ 30.63%





The virus does what it does with boring monotony. A set percentage of the 'cases' will turn into 'hospitalizations' and out of those a certain percentage will die. It'll shuffle back and forth a bit as the age distribution of the input curve changes, the end result is the same. Consider yourself lucky that TX has little connectivity to NYC (the source of the US epidemic) and that the level of social distancing in TX for the past 2 months was sufficient to keep the growth limited to what is. Doesn't make you any better or any smarter, just lucky.

 

[denverpilot]

I don't understand how using a thermal-imaging camera to check your temperature is worse than the x-rays and 360-full-body x-rays some airports have, or rather even a problem of violating rights at all. It is for everyone else's safety for the time being.

Those aren’t X-Rays. Those are millimeter wave scans. Quite different tech.

You can also opt-out of that scan by policy, if desired. The TSA will manually check your junk if you want.

Not arguing for that, just sayin’... use of the overpriced single source contract money debacle machines, and their non-ionizing RF radiation, has always been optional.

Edit: Damn it autocorrect. I typed millimeter.

 

[Bell206]

There an many members of the active duty military who are hospitalized because of COVID-19.

Define many. While there is no current data the rate of military hospitalizations is higher than the average civilian rates but the overall infection rate and death rate is lower than overall civilian rate. Plus the fact military hospitalization requirements are different than civilian requirements on several levels. As to kids dying, I think if you look any any infection death demographic you'll find children listed also.

Basically, at this point we have rather limited knowledge who the virus is likely to kill and how.

So basically what you are saying is the general population is not responsible enough to seek out or to know they are in the potential SARS2 vulnerable group and should protect themselves and require elected officials to "save" them? Or am I misinterpreting your point? Remember, the quarantine/lock down was to prevent over run of the health system.

The issue being more discussed now is the laser focus given COVID vs the increasing death rate from non-COVID causes. Unfortunately this is not getting any air time. So what is your solution to get those non-COVID people to go to the doctor instead of stay at home and die? And note: this is partly based on info passed on by a friend who signs death certificates.

 

[GaryM]

If you make the choice to wear a mask to protect yourself from me, I support that.

I deserve to have a choice to not wear one.

We deserve a choice. Stay in or go out, wear a face condom or leave it off.

I have libertarian tendencies, so I get this. On a related note, I've long been concerned that it is increasingly difficult to go anywhere in public without being recorded on multiple surveillance cameras.

So now when I go out in public anywhere good social distancing isn't possible, I wear a mask mostly because they have some effectiveness against Covid-carrying droplet transmission, but also because I figure I'm screwing with the surveillance state.

 

[tspear]

@denverpilot

Incorrect, you are moving the goal posts. I replied to the tangent, that only POTUS and a few others can take the drug and have the infrastructure to monitor for the possible serious side effects.
You basically said these serious conditions do not exist; and give anecdotal evidence that they do not exist based on prescription rate. This is a self filtering group for the most part, doctors generally will not prescribe a drug with such serious side effects if there are strong complicating factors. When my dad was in the hospital for COVID-19, he was one of the many people tested with Z-Pack and Hydroxychloroquine. Before he was given the drugs, we had a long detailed call with the doc, and also with a friend who is not only pharmacist and but also pharmaceutical clinical study auditor. Both walked through the side effects, and possible complications, and my dad did not have any contributing conditions (such as POTUS does), plus he would be closely monitored. (Did not seem to make an appreciable difference in treatment).


Tim

 

[tspear]

Define many. While there is no current data the rate of military hospitalizations is higher than the average civilian rates but the overall infection rate and death rate is lower than overall civilian rate. Plus the fact military hospitalization requirements are different than civilian requirements on several levels. As to kids dying, I think if you look any any infection death demographic you'll find children listed also.

So basically what you are saying is the general population is not responsible enough to seek out or to know they are in the potential SARS2 vulnerable group and should protect themselves and require elected officials to "save" them? Or am I misinterpreting your point? Remember, the quarantine/lock down was to prevent over run of the health system.

The issue being more discussed now is the laser focus given COVID vs the increasing death rate from non-COVID causes. Unfortunately this is not getting any air time. So what is your solution to get those non-COVID people to go to the doctor instead of stay at home and die? And note: this is partly based on info passed on by a friend who signs death certificates.

@Bell206
I do not recall the numbers, ratios or other pieces, just that DoD was trying to contain it, and had already lost a few soldiers.

I am not saying that at all, and stop moving the goal posts. You had previously stated those who are vulnerable should self isolate or wear PPE. I am stating that in general we do NOT know who is vulnerable. There are a few categories, which have high correlations, such as age. But there is even more unknown; when COVID-19 started, due to it initially presenting as a respiratory illness it was assumed that asthma would be an indication of vulnerability. We now have enough data to show that asthma does not appear to be such an indicator; but diabetes is. Why, who knows?

Tim

 

[denverpilot]

@denverpilot

Incorrect, you are moving the goal posts. I replied to the tangent, that only POTUS and a few others can take the drug and have the infrastructure to monitor for the possible serious side effects.
You basically said these serious conditions do not exist; and give anecdotal evidence that they do not exist based on prescription rate. This is a self filtering group for the most part, doctors generally will not prescribe a drug with such serious side effects if there are strong complicating factors. When my dad was in the hospital for COVID-19, he was one of the many people tested with Z-Pack and Hydroxychloroquine. Before he was given the drugs, we had a long detailed call with the doc, and also with a friend who is not only pharmacist and but also pharmaceutical clinical study auditor. Both walked through the side effects, and possible complications, and my dad did not have any contributing conditions (such as POTUS does), plus he would be closely monitored. (Did not seem to make an appreciable difference in treatment).


Tim

By your cagey wording your insinuation you’re making was that 70 million who’ve taken it needed such special monitoring.

They didn’t.

I’m sure the ruling class in DC is monitored for how many times they fart in a 24 hour period, but it has little bearing on whether this particular drug normally requires any special monitoring of anybody prescribed it.

I’ve been on and off three drugs this year with much more serious side effects at much higher rates with zero special monitoring. One required a half of hour for monitoring for anaphylactic shock.

Pardon me while I yawn like everyone else including most medical professionals, about the “highly dangerous” 60 year old drug.

LOL

And no, I’m not advocating some sort of widespread use. I just think it’s really funny how easy it is to see which of the destructive cults someone joined by whether they’re fear-mongering or not on this drug.

I mean sure, pick a good Doc. Medical malpractice technically still is way ahead of the virus killing people this year. That might reverse with the lower number of procedures...

 

[Groundpounder]

We will have dedicated medical pros doing this. Not TSA agents

Let's hope so.

 

[tspear]

@denverpilot

On this we will disagree.
Based on what you have stated previously, you do not have cardiac issues; where the complications may be fatal. POTUS does, and that is the issue.

Tim

 

[cgrab]

I took the "Trump-drug" and lived. The medical screening was something like "Are you getting on the plane?"

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I took the "Trump-drug" and lived. The medical screening was something like "Are you getting on the plane?"

the drug has been around and used for decades.....

 

[weilke]

@denverpilot

On this we will disagree.
Based on what you have stated previously, you do not have cardiac issues; where the complications may be fatal. POTUS does, and that is the issue.

Tim

What 'cardiac issues' does the president have beyond some hypercholesterinemia ?

This is a commonly prescribed drug for a number of inflammatory/rheumatological conditions. Its well tolerated with a risk profile that is deemed acceptable for a first-line treatment. The reason NOT to take it to 'prevent covid' would be that there is so far very little to no data to suggest that it does that.

Funny how many people are suddenly concerned about the presidents cardiac health. Lol.

 

[denverpilot]

@denverpilot

On this we will disagree.
Based on what you have stated previously, you do not have cardiac issues; where the complications may be fatal. POTUS does, and that is the issue.

We may not truly disagree. I couldn’t care less if he dies, you?

Probably for different reasons. LOL.

In my case I can’t think of a dumber way to live life than spending more than a handful of minutes a week wasting it on DC politicians or their destructive antics.

Same people for four decades, nothing accomplished.

If Covid or any other event got them all at once, there’s a long queue of fools waiting to take all their places and continue accomplishing nothing.

But oh lord, the fancy funerals we’d all have to try hard to avoid seeing even clips of for useless dead people, for a few weeks. They love that patting the dead guy on the ass thing.

I *really* wouldn’t be surprised if Biden is on it or something, either. That man is not well. The latest word salad from him seems drug induced.

I’ve also suspected Covid intel leaks with as fast as the entire campaign trail cleared out of candidates a month prior to the beginnings of leaks to the GenPop. Magically everybody dropped out and stopped traveling, and no endorsement speeches, and...

Right around the time I’m nearly dead, we’ll know what they knew. Same as the secrets they kept from dad, grandpa, great-grandpa...

The newspaper shot of the Covid headline right next to the Kobe Bryant thing, front page USA Today, is fun. The basketball celebrity crash easily upstaged this thing in our silly celebrity culture in January.

For those truly in the know, we are roughly half a year into this silliness, not two months.

Fun to watch the world miss it completely and then overreact and still get it wrong.

Four direct flights from Wuhan to NYC every day for months, while the TV pretended the cruise ships were the harbingers of death.

LOL Cleared to land, baby.

 

[tspear]

What 'cardiac issues' does the president have beyond some hypercholesterinemia ?

This is a commonly prescribed drug for a number of inflammatory/rheumatological conditions. Its well tolerated with a risk profile that is deemed acceptable for a first-line treatment. The reason NOT to take it to 'prevent covid' would be that there is so far very little to no data to suggest that it does that.

Funny how many people are suddenly concerned about the presidents cardiac health. Lol.

A news article from 2018: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/17/health/trump-heart-disease-gupta/index.html
And a report of the double blind study on the drug: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/04/15/coronavirus-chloroquine-test-halted-drug/2983129001/

In both cases, you need to skip paste the media hype, and look for the facts.

Tim

 

[Cap'n Jack]

It looks like POTUS found a doctor willing to give him an off script drug he believes helps with prevention

Yup. And there are very few people who have the wealth or government backing who can be so closely monitored that they can take a drug which has causes potential cardiac issues.

Tim

A tad sensationalist. That stuff is lupus candy and easily 70% of my private sarcoidosis group is on it or has been.

Main real risk is eyesight. It becomes toxic to the eyes after about five years at the 400mg daily level, and 10 years at 200mg.

During initial three months you probably want a slit test at the least and again at six and laser retinal and blood vessel imagery if you can get it. After that it’s annual.

Depending on side effects, which are usually gastrointestinal, people come off of it or end up on it for life in sarcoid patients.

It’s been around for 60 years. There’s really no real surprises with it. Thousands are sent home with it with no specific heart concerns or special monitoring.

No comment on effectiveness against the virus or its side effects, just not buying the side effects stories of people not taking it or non-MDs, judging by the mass number of folks on it in my groups and they’re talking quite a bit about it right now... seeing if anybody is having stupidity trying to fill their scripts, etc.

Might be fun to look up the exact percentage with each side effect though. Not sure I’m that bored.

“Anal leakage” is listed on most drugs that passed FDA approval. Gotta list em all!

the drug has been around and used for decades.....

And does nothing to curb viruses.

A news article from 2018: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/17/health/trump-heart-disease-gupta/index.html
And a report of the double blind study on the drug: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/04/15/coronavirus-chloroquine-test-halted-drug/2983129001/

In both cases, you need to skip paste the media hype, and look for the facts.

Tim

These compounds first showed up in screening during the SARS outbreak a few years ago; that epidemic died out and testing was stopped. They tested the stuff back in January against this new virus in cell culture and found weak activity, at best. The initial human tests showed mixed results (anecdotal results). The controlled clinical trials haven't shown any good results; I'm not following those trials now because if there were good results for these compounds, one side of the media would be trumpeting it.

 

[weilke]

A news article from 2018: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/17/health/trump-heart-disease-gupta/index.html

So you consider Sanjay Gupta 'news'.

I said 'except for hypercholesterinemia'. Yes, he is on a statin, so are probably 1/2 of the patients who are on Plaquenil for their rheumatoid arthritis, lupus or any of the other conditions it is prescribed for.

And a report of the double blind study on the drug: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/04/15/coronavirus-chloroquine-test-halted-drug/2983129001/

Yeah, because that's exactly the same thing. One is a otherwise healthy outpatient who takes a regular dose of a commonly prescribed rheumatologic drug, the other is use of abnormally high doses of a different drug in gravely ill ICU patients (along with other drugs that affect cardiac function). Yeah, clearly, exactly the same thing.

In both cases, you need to skip paste the media hype, and look for the facts.

You would be well advised to do the same.

 

[RJM62]

What 'cardiac issues' does the president have beyond some hypercholesterinemia ?

This is a commonly prescribed drug for a number of inflammatory/rheumatological conditions. Its well tolerated with a risk profile that is deemed acceptable for a first-line treatment. The reason NOT to take it to 'prevent covid' would be that there is so far very little to no data to suggest that it does that.

Funny how many people are suddenly concerned about the presidents cardiac health. Lol.

I'm pretty sick of it, to be honest with you. It's between him and his doctor. He never should have said anything about it, in my opinion.

Rich

 

[weilke]

And again. The reason not to take hydroxychloroquine in a preventive intent is that there is no data to suggest that it has that effect. Given the breadth of community transmission in some areas, it wouldn't have been impossible to conduct such a study, but it didn't happen.

 

[simtech]

This comment didn't age well.

Meh....still overblown but that's just me.

Global cases (out of 7 billion)
Updated May 19 at 4:13 PM local
Confirmed
4,867,515
+108,578
Deaths
321,459
+5,182
Recovered
1,664,885

Dont drag me back into this hahaha (we are not gonna change other peoples views here)....I am curious to know this years flu numbers, im sure they are down too but how many being lumped as covid and how many deaths are being called covid because they were found dead at home. I mean 7 Billion in the world and 321k deaths..How about over 1.6mil recovered? Im not saying I am taking this lightly because truthfully I don't want to be sick with anything, not the cold, flu, or covid...And for the record I do not get the flu shot either and Ive never had the flu. Remember its been what 2 months we had a positive case where I work and that person has come into contact with myself and many others both young and old and guess what...no new cases...errr...nobody showing symptoms.

 

[Brad Z]

Meh....still overblown but that's just me.

Global cases (out of 7 billion)
Updated May 19 at 4:13 PM local
Confirmed
4,867,515
+108,578
Deaths
321,459
+5,182
Recovered
1,664,885

Dont drag me back into this hahaha (we are not gonna change other peoples views here)....I am curious to know this years flu numbers, im sure they are down too but how many being lumped as covid and how many deaths are being called covid because they were found dead at home. I mean 7 Billion in the world and 321k deaths..How about over 1.6mil recovered? Im not saying I am taking this lightly because truthfully I don't want to be sick with anything, not the cold, flu, or covid...And for the record I do not get the flu shot either and Ive never had the flu. Remember its been what 2 months we had a positive case where I work and that person has come into contact with myself and many others both young and old and guess what...no new cases...errr...nobody showing symptoms.

It's just sort of amusing to see how our collective perspective was in February compared to today.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

And does nothing to curb viruses.

that's not the intent of the drug.....it does provide anti-inflamatory action and helps while the body fights the infection. Remember the virus is a "clotting" agent and affects everyone differently.

 

[Becky]

I’m in a two-county area of Washington State that is the fifth highest area in the state in outbreak size, after four large western counties around Seattle.

Asked a trusted local grocery store employee yesterday if she and her coworkers would prefer that customers wear masks. She said they think it should be a personal choice and do not mind customers going unmasked. She said there are good arguments for and against so people should be free to choose.

Interestingly, the store only two weeks ago required all employees to wear masks. The employee told me that three people had resigned because of that mandate, because they had serious issues with wearing masks. I do too. All the downsides mentioned on this thread apply.

But the most striking thing she told me was that in the almost three months of lockdown, with thousands of people still coming in regularly for groceries, no employee had been out with cold or flu symptoms. If a group of people spending eight-hour workdays at a grocery store, the epicenter of the populace’s convergence, doesn’t have at least some fall ill, this shutdown continuance should be seriously rethunk.