To buy or not to buy

James331 said:
What the bare mins are is one thing, what is desired is another.

Caring about logs form 50 years ago, aside from the plane having some crazy provenance or wanting to make a scrap book, I could care less, the logs from the past 5-10 years are quite important to me, not just the bare legal mins, but getting a idea of how the airplane was cared for and giving me enough information for the seller to hang himself if the he was BSing the logs.

Also, I could care less about damage history, IF, it was repaired properly and completely and you can back that up, now if I find something in the NTSB or google about some metal getting bent, and you didn't already disclose or I don't find anything in the logs, 337s, etc about it, well I'm tossing my BS flag and me and my money are walking.
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So in other words, the market doesn't agree with your approach either... ;)

Regardless of how you, I, or Tom buys airplanes, and what paperwork we personally feel is important, it is best to have all the logs (or at least most) if you want to appeal to the widest market. Unfortunately, we are at a point where these airplanes are getting old enough that the physical condition of the airplane should have much more weight placed on it in the decision to purchase than what the paper says happened to it over the course of the last 50 or 60 years. This is especially true at the bottom end of the plane buying spectrum, which a $20k Cessna 172 is most definitely at, and the OP should keep that in mind.
 
It could be the Cessna rentals have been abused to the point where the doors do not open or close easily.
 
When major alterations are made to any aircraft the only way to know what the FA knows is to get the History CD from OKC.
Who cares when the last annual was completed? a smart buyer will have a pre-buy completed that should encompass at least the requirements of FAR 43-D plus a lot more and have that inspector place the correct entry into the logs. then buy a subscription to ADlog. and have every AD verified and entered correctly. Then you can file the old logs as history and continue to maintain the aircraft properly and have it entered properly.
You as an owner are only required to keep maintenance records for 24 months or until such time as the maintenance is repeated, So, the only thing of value to the new buyer is the oil change trends and maybe the old discrepancy repairs.
I recently inspected a Cessna that had beautiful records, but when I looked at the aircraft it was really a corroded POS. and the buyer had already paid for it.
 
mondtster said:
So in other words, the market doesn't agree with your approach either... ;)

Regardless of how you, I, or Tom buys airplanes, and what paperwork we personally feel is important, it is best to have all the logs (or at least most) if you want to appeal to the widest market. Unfortunately, we are at a point where these airplanes are getting old enough that the physical condition of the airplane should have much more weight placed on it in the decision to purchase than what the paper says happened to it over the course of the last 50 or 60 years. This is especially true at the bottom end of the plane buying spectrum, which a $20k Cessna 172 is most definitely at, and the OP should keep that in mind.
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Are you buying the aircraft to fly and use or are you buying the aircraft for resale. That makes a really big difference.
 
Blueangel said:
It could be the Cessna rentals have been abused to the point where the doors do not open or close easily.
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Yes,,, and no records that reflect the 20,000 hours TT. :)
 
James331 said:
What the bare mins are is one thing, what is desired is another.
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Why should they be different? Didn't you already say that you would walk on any thing you didn't like?
 
Tom-D said:
Are you buying the aircraft to fly and use or are you buying the aircraft for resale. That makes a really big difference.
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Doesn't matter, you ALWAYS buy like you're going to flip it, airplane, house, puppy, doesn't matter.
 
James331 said:
Doesn't matter, you ALWAYS buy like you're going to flip it, airplane, house, puppy, doesn't matter.
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Wrong.

Always buy because you need / want the item.

Unless you are a "dealer", "professional", you shouldn't be buying to sell.

Buy to use.


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James331 said:
Doesn't matter, you ALWAYS buy like you're going to flip it, airplane, house, puppy, doesn't matter.
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I buy to restore, and none of the aircraft I bought would fit your requirements. You would have ran away like a scared rabbit
 
JoseCuervo said:
Wrong.

Always buy because you need / want the item.

Unless you are a "dealer", "professional", you shouldn't be buying to sell.

Buy to use.


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Ahh, I LOVE folks like you.

Are you in the market for ANYTHING? Shoot me a PM
 
James, not sure if you can buy a "pristine" 150 for 20 AMU. You can buy a really nice one though. Pristine examples run in the 30's.
(for definition: my idea of pristine is 9-10/10 P&I and less than 250hrs on a no older than 5 year engine).
I have a '76 /G M model which is 7-8 P&I and 200hrs on a 3 year engine, and I consider this to be a $20 plane.
 
James331 said:
Ahh, I LOVE folks like you.

Are you in the market for ANYTHING? Shoot me a PM
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Doubtful you know more than the experts.

People that think they know more are the easiest to sell to, as their egos get in their way.

I buy and sell stuff, in a narrow field, with great success and confidence. I know enough to stay out of fields/markets that I am not an expert.

If you don't know enough to avoid areas you aren't an expert, you will soon be parted from your money....


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Dude, folks with your mindset paid for my flight training.

And I thank you.
 
James331 said:
Dude, folks with your mindset paid for my flight training.

And I thank you.
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Dude, folks with your mindset paid for my airplane........ and my BMW......... and my cabin on the lake ........ and my house in the gated community.... and my kid's college education..... and the Mercedes....... etc......

And I really thank you.....


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Bought it yesterday after doing a better "pre-buy" with my A & P. Many thanks to him for making the time. The plane has a bit of sheet metal damage that preceded the most recent paint job, but inconsequential at the price range. The seller was very thoughtful through the process and sold to me at a good price point which will allow for some of the immediate improvements that I would like to make. It needs a bit of TLC - carpet, one door handle needs to get tightened, slightly leaky strut - but otherwise a clean bill of health so far. We are going back soon to do the full annual and he will receive final payment based on how the annual goes. Thank you all for all of the input. This made a great sounding board for me and helped center my approach to the purchase. You helped me go there with a very objective attitude about the purchase.

Best regards....
 
Matt C said:
Bought it yesterday [...]
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Congratulations, this is amazing! Hope to meet you and your new bird at a pancake breakfast or a fly-in. :D


Matt C said:
[...] This made a great sounding board for me and helped center my approach to the purchase. [...]
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That's also something I like about this board, even though threads tend to escalate to a pi**ing contest: Usually the discussions also provide quite a bit is useful information. It might not always be the ultimate wisdom, but provide at least some food for thought and a look at the topic from different perspectives. :)
 
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Congratulations. Always glad when somebody actually buys a plane after getting the advice on this forum.

Enjoy it.


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Matt C said:
Bought it yesterday after doing a better "pre-buy" with my A & P. Many thanks to him for making the time. The plane has a bit of sheet metal damage that preceded the most recent paint job, but inconsequential at the price range. The seller was very thoughtful through the process and sold to me at a good price point which will allow for some of the immediate improvements that I would like to make. It needs a bit of TLC - carpet, one door handle needs to get tightened, slightly leaky strut - but otherwise a clean bill of health so far. We are going back soon to do the full annual and he will receive final payment based on how the annual goes. Thank you all for all of the input. This made a great sounding board for me and helped center my approach to the purchase. You helped me go there with a very objective attitude about the purchase.

Best regards....
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Fantastic! Congrats.
 
Congrats. Hopefully your A&P did a compression and leak down test on the engine. I recommend oil sample analysis over time to make sure plane is not making metal.
 
German guy said:
Congratulations, this is amazing! Hope to meet you and your new bird at a pancake breakfast or a fly-in. :D




That's also something I like about this board, even though threads tend to escalate to a pi**ing contest: Usually the discussions also provide quite a bit is useful information. It might not always be the ultimate wisdom, but provide at least some food for thought and a look at the topic from different perspectives. :)
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Thank you. I just noticed that you are in Novi. Our "Fly In Restaurant" at 61D is quite a draw for breakfast. It's a typical greasy spoon, but popular for sure. I'd be pleased to meet you if you happen to come out this way. Best.
 
Blueangel said:
Congrats. Hopefully your A&P did a compression and leak down test on the engine. I recommend oil sample analysis over time to make sure plane is not making metal.
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Thanks - I intend to. It is one of the questions that I asked at our initial meeting. He (current owner) has done two tests (oil sample) and no unusual results to date. I will do a couple once I own it.
 
Congratulations, Matt! I hope the rest of the process goes smoothly with no unexpected big issues so you soon become an airplane owner. I think you will enjoy a C-172.

Buying this time of year in your part of the U.S., you will have to be careful with the weather. Enjoy your new Cessna!
 
somorris said:
Congratulations, Matt! I hope the rest of the process goes smoothly with no unexpected big issues so you soon become an airplane owner. I think you will enjoy a C-172.

Buying this time of year in your part of the U.S., you will have to be careful with the weather. Enjoy your new Cessna!
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Thanks!

It is challenging to find a nice day to get out. They are predicting a week of intermittent rain, clouds and 40's - happy Autumn/Winter!

Best...
 
I love a story with a happy ending. :)
 
Me too. In my case, I may will end up with a simple Piper fixed gear to get my instrument rating done and use for weekend burger hops. Plenty for sale at decent affordable prices and I prefer low wing to high wing.
 
Tom-D said:
I love a story with a happy ending. :)
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Thanks Tom - it's been more than a ten year journey from my first lesson to being able to afford consistent lessons to graduating to losing my medical to a special issuance to getting my third class back to finally saving enough to own a plane and be able to maintain it. Long winded story if you tell the whole thing...
 
Blueangel said:
Me too. In my case, I may will end up with a simple Piper fixed gear to get my instrument rating done and use for weekend burger hops. Plenty for sale at decent affordable prices and I prefer low wing to high wing.
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Happy shopping Scott, it's a fun adventure. BTW, I flew a PA28 that I thought was great fun. I think they handle better than the Cessnas. The 172 just makes more sense for me. Enjoy.
 
Skywalker said:
Congratulations! Enjoy your plane! :)
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Thanks. Already enjoying the thrill of my first airplane and I haven't even seen it since I put money down. I'm itchy for the weekend so I can spend some time at the airport :)
 
Thanks guys. So far it has been challenging. I had a broker/seller accept an offer on a plane that was to go into prebuy and then never heard back and seller reneged on deal. Most planes for sale are far away and work schedule makes it tough to travel for the hunt.
 
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