TKS on a Mooney

Fast n' Furious

Fast n' Furious

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iJustLanded
Anyone have any real life experience with Mooney aircraft equipped with TKS?
 
None whatsoever. It does seem like a very slick system. My question is, given what seems to be current thinking at some FSDOs, that the existence of a cloud and below freezing temps = known icing, does it matter? Practically, yes, but it seems like things are moving toward keeping everyone without FIKI on the ground or at least under the clouds. AFAIK, TKS isn't FIKI-approved. Could be (and likely am) wrong.
 
I've flown a de-iced Bravo and a de-iced Commander 114 in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic.

What would you like to know? TKS works well, the fluid is expensive if bought at an FBO. In the warmer months, you should cycle the TCS on periodically to exercise the pump. Even with the known ice configuration, I still plan to exit the icing conditions when I enter them.
 
Yeah I am. The Hawker uses TKS and I've flown a bunch of other TKS equipped airplanes but no Mooneys. Seems there are two packages available...one that called "enhanced flight safety" and an STC kit for known icing. Looks like I lose the airplane for three weeks worth of work....my wallet loses a bunch too.
 
bbchien said:
I do. I instruct in a lot of recent M20Ms and the stuff works great.....until you run out.

Thinking of retrofiting the 252?
Click to expand...

So the plan is Get Out before you Run Out.
 
Yeah, I think I need the capability. The Hawker has it and I've flown a bunch of other TKS equipped airplanes. It's impressive to be sure but it has it's limitations like everything else does short of hot wings and tail. Looks like I lose the airplane for about three weeks....my wallet lightens up significantly too.
 
30K, last I heard.
High and fast which is where the 252 goes, is not worth a lot w/o ice. Is the 252 package certified for FIKI?

That's why I ended up with a factory FIKI bird. In the end I want my $$s out.
 
Yes you can add FIKI for maybe 60K or inadvertent for 30K. FIKI adds some redundancy.

If you plan on reacting to ice the same way you would in a "normal" airplane - by getting out of it ASAP - the inadvertent ice protection buys you a little extra piece of mind. I think it's of extra value to mooneys, since the Mooney wing is relatively sharp and skinny and a little ice robs the wing of a lot of efficiency. A Cessna 182 with the fat wing doesn't suffer as much with the same amount of ice accretion.

Your airplane will be heavier and your wallet will be lighter, but you'll get some more use out of the airplane.
 
bbchien said:
30K, last I heard.
High and fast which is where the 252 goes, is not worth a lot w/o ice. Is the 252 package certified for FIKI?

That's why I ended up with a factory FIKI bird. In the end I want my $$s out.
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Right now the known ice installation is 40K. I wanna keep this airplane and if the mod is a viable alternative then I'd like to explore it. I'm really not too terribly interested in owning a KI twin or a single such as the Malibu, Mirage or a P210, although having a Meridian would be cool until it came time for hot section or overhaul. Bruce can you point to any significant changes in performance with the TKS panels on the wings versus without?
 
As I recall the speed difference is minimal... like 3 knots or less. Check the weight numbers and the effect on CG though.
 
John also check out how much your useful load will decrease. I hear the fluid is kinda heavy.
 
AdamZ said:
John also check out how much your useful load will decrease. I hear the fluid is kinda heavy.
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I'm more than willing to give up the 100 pounds for the full up system. Basically, that's what I've got available once the tanks are full, the two front seats are filled, and fifty pounds of bags are in the back. Now there's some added incentive to lose a bit of weight!:no:
 
Fast n' Furious said:
Anyone have any real life experience with Mooney aircraft equipped with TKS?
Click to expand...

The only one I know is an M20F based at Baden-Baden airport, Germany. The owner installed it to do north Atlantic crossings. If you would like a contact information let me know and I'll send an email to my German friends.
 
A good friend flys a Bravo with KI TKS. He used to have a T210 with KI boots. I believe he likes the TKS better. Let me know and I can put you in touch with him.
 
You do lose 2 or 3 knots in cruise. Which definitely beat the H_ck out of losing 20 knots with ice.

Some years ago there was an ice accident with a Bonanza that had a problem delivering fluid to one side, but not the other (One wing deiced). I can't remember where, it was nearly 15 years ago IIRC.

I think the known Ice sytem has two pumps and a manifold such that one pump can serve the whole system, and two pump independently.

But JR, you'll only get half of your 40K back, despite the NEED for ice gear when you go high and fast (punch up, punch down). Sigh. That's what pushed me to an already existing model.

I'd seriously think about a 1996 Bravo with known ice. The total investment will be not that much more than 40K + your 252, and you'll get your money out in the end.
 
bbchien said:
You do lose 2 or 3 knots in cruise. Which definitely beat the H_ck out of losing 20 knots with ice.

Some years ago there was an ice accident with a Bonanza that had a problem delivering fluid to one side, but not the other (One wing deiced). I can't remember where, it was nearly 15 years ago IIRC.

I think the known Ice sytem has two pumps and a manifold such that one pump can serve the whole system, and two pump independently.

But JR, you'll only get half of your 40K back, despite the NEED for ice gear when you go high and fast (punch up, punch down). Sigh. That's what pushed me to an already existing model.

I'd seriously think about a 1996 Bravo with known ice. The total investment will be not that much more than 40K + your 252, and you'll get your money out in the end.
Click to expand...

That's really good advice - I wish I'd thought of it.
 
Looked at that option fairly hard today. Until I hand the numbers to the accountant and tell him what I really want to do, it looks like mod'ing my airplane makes the most financial sense. I don't know...I just fly the darn things. Anyway, thanks to everyone for their insights and suggestions. I'll keep y'all posted on the outcome and of course, where to send your donations.
 
On further thought:
If you've already modified your airplane so that it's "your" airplane, then you'll probably be happier with adding the TKS rather than trading planes. If you don't mod your airplane, and don't really have an attachment to it, then a trade probably is the cheaper move overall.

Some folks bond with their airplanes and some don't.
 
Hi there,

I just discovered this board. What a great site! Anyway...

I have a Mooney Ovation with TKS known ice. I had it installed on the aircraft aftermarket at the factory. In response to your question, it cost about $42,000 not including the sales tax. It may cost more if you do not already have the dual alternators. I believe the factory also will install uncertified TKS but I don't know what they charge for that. The process took about 3 weeks. AS&T in Salina, KS can also do it. I've heard they do an excellent job (maybe even better than the factory).

The system added about 100 pounds or so to the plane (with the full fluid). I look at it as traveling with an extra small person! I, too, vowed to lose weight. Since Thanksgiving, the opposite has happened. :rolleyes:

In terms of speed loss, it shaved about 5-7 kts off of the cruise speed. Before installation, it would true out at 190-194 ktas and now it trues at about 185-186. Like someone else said, I'd rather lose 5 kts to TKS than 20 kts to ice! :hairraise: The factory said they would be happy to pull the governor off of the prop so I could keep the same speeds after the TKS (Ovation 3 conversion) hahaha.

I am generally happy with the system. It works very well. However, there are some minor negatives. Occasionally, the panels do not leak fluid at the same rate. Evidently, this is a result of air trapping in the panel. My right wing panels tend to do this more for some reason. I make sure *all* the panels are showing evidence of fluid before I depart.

The windshield aspect is messy, whether you use the spray bar or just get the slinger fluid off of the prop. Unfortunately, in my experience, the Mooney defrost system has really gone downhill. My J-bird defrost was amazing--you could probably fry an egg with it but the Ovation defrost is just awful.

As for the numbers, I ran them with my advisors and it ultimately made more sense to add TKS to my current plane than to acquire another one with it already installed. Additionally, there were not really any comparable planes on the market that I liked as much as mine. Your situation may be different.

Sometimes the fluid is hard to find (especially in the southeast). Even if the FBO services Hawker jets, they may not have it. For example, FBOs in Nashville and Louisville carry it, but FBOs in Memphis and Lexington do not. Some FBOs only allow certain personnel to fill up the TKS tanks.

Anyway, I hope this has been helpful. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
John you should get a hold of Bill Jennings and see if you can do a two for one TKS deal with the mooney he is buying! :)
 
Crispin, Always glad to have another Mooney owner on this board. Welcome.
 
Thanks Lance! Gotta love those Mooneys:yes:
 
Crispin,
Thank you very much for the reply. We're going to do the upgrade in time for next years icing season. In the meantime we'll just stay out all the ice. Thanks again.
 
1989 Mooney TLS 1850 342 Willmar MN $214,900 Add to Favorites
Take Notes
1989 MOONEY TLS BRAVO, TT-1850, SMOH 342, TKS de-ice, no damage history and fresh Willmar Air Service annual with sale. $214,900. MN/(701) 367-1220. Photos at: http://www.willmarairservice.com

1990 Mooney TLS 1390 Bullard TX $215,000 Add to Favorites
Take Notes
1990 TLS/BRAVO, 1390 TTSN, TKS, NDH, Garmin 530, GDL69, GTX330 xpdr and much more. Call TX/(903) 825-2739 for details. $215,000.
 
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Bruce you're killin' me over here. I finally get the 252 EXACTLY the way I need it to be and then you do this to me. Very tempting on the Teal green TLS but I'm really happy with what I have. Looks like TKS will go on in the early Fall of 07. Donations to....
 
TMetzinger said:
On further thought:
If you've already modified your airplane so that it's "your" airplane, then you'll probably be happier with adding the TKS rather than trading planes. If you don't mod your airplane, and don't really have an attachment to it, then a trade probably is the cheaper move overall.

Some folks bond with their airplanes and some don't.
Click to expand...

Jumping in late on the thread, but if you KNOW you've got a good plane, it's probably worth while to add it to your aircraft.
 
Its definately far more economical to purchase an aircraft with the system already fitted and certified etc. The problem is finding one at sensible money. Im UK based but have coming up for sale, an N reg 252 with TKS which was fitted when the aircraft had ferry flight hours only ie from new. The aircraft has 2000 hours TTAF and 200 TTE SMOH. White with blue and purple stripes. TKS leading edges stabilator tail fin and pilot window. Ice light, hot prop. Comprehensive avionics. HSI. slaved adf. stormscope. garmin 430 330 340 stack couple to 3 axis autopilot. Mode s. Digital engine analyser jpm 700. All singing and dancing and with the exchange rate must represent awesome value for money. Can be delivered also if needed after succesfull viewing. Hangared all its life represents a very strong 9 in and out
d.plange@btinternet.com
 
Holy thread resurrection! :yikes:
 
Geologically speaking this was a blink of an eye. Anyway, it's a Mooney post and almost by definition a good thing.
 
Does anyone have any experience with the tks system on a new acclaim? I am having much dificulty getting the fluid level to register properly on the panel mounted fluid indicator. Mooney has supported the effort 100% but we are unable to resolve the issue. we have changed the sending unit twice and tried 3 new main controllers and still unable to get accurate level readings.
Any help will be welcome
John B
N782JB
 
JohnB,
My TKS system reads .3 of a gallon low on the ground as opposed to level flight. The system is calibrated for level flight.
Walt
 
Walt,
the problem we are having is to correctly read the fluid level of the tks. we are unable to calibrate the system after have 3 new controllers sent to us from Mooney and changing the sending unit once. Are you aware of anyone else having these type of problems?

John Balow
715-215-1484 cell for personal discussion
 
Just a wag here but it sounds like time to re-route the wiring from the sensor to the controller. If the sensor works and the controller works then the glitch may well lay between the two (assuming the power supply is clean and all other installation parameters are correct).

We used to run into problems with (relatively) low voltage control circuits in a shipboard environment. We had cable trays which carried all sorts of mixed wiring from main power to hotel power to sensors and controls. We could only speculate on the cause and recalibrate to operate at a different voltage or pull new wire to solve the problem. At times, electrical control troubleshooting is an art. As always, YMWV.
 
JohnB,
I would call CAV Aerospace in Salina. Their number is 888 865 5511. You might ask for Tim. CAV builds the kits, Mooney installs per an STC. Good luck!
 
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