TKM MX170C or KX155?

[CC268]

So...where do I begin. We have had a ton of avionics issues over the past 4 months (basically since I started my instrument rating). We currently have two KX170Bs (see panel photo). We realized quickly during the beginning of my IFR training that the bottom King 201C VOR/LOC indicator was way off. The local avionics shop had a difficult time trying to calibrate it (and when they did calibrate it, it would not stay calibrated for long). So we replaced it with another 201C. The first replacement we received did not work correctly, so they sent out another one. Thankfully this one has been working well and it has proven to be accurate when shooting non precision approaches. Recently our top King 211C VOR/ILS started acting up. After lots of troubleshooting we determined that we would need another indicator. Turns out the 211C is so old that they are now hard to come by, and most avionics shops aren't even keeping them in their inventory anymore (understandable). So...we got a King 214 VOR/ILS to replace it. Well we got it all installed, new connector, etc...not working. This is in addition to two attitude indicators that have gone out on us in the past 4 months (thankfully AQI replaced the one we got from them immediately for free).

At this point my dad and I are in agreement that maybe it is time for us to spend the extra cash and put a newer radio and indicator in the plane. The avionics shop we got the King 214 from (very reputable company) is obviously taking the King 214 back, paying for the return shipping, and refunding us. They have offered us a KX155/King 209 combo for $3k. Of course this isn't "brand new" stuff. It is re-serviced (serviceable I guess is the technical term). I have to admit I am becoming a little wary of these refurbished/reserviced/whatever you want to call them avionics.

Another option is a *new* TKM MX170C paired with something like the King 209 indicator, which is a direct replacement for the KX170Bs. Now...I just flew in a 172 that had one of these TKM MX170Cs and I was not impressed. It had horrible reception...we couldn't even clearly hear the ATIS at 20 miles out. I imagine either the radio has an issue or there is something else going on, but it wasn't a good first impression.

The last option is all new stuff from Garmin. GTR 225 paired with the GI-106. This obviously comes at a premium price. Somewhere around $7500 installed. Ouch. I think at the end of the day this probably isn't an option...if it was $5k I think we might do it.

Sadly, looks like I won't be making my IFR checkride date of February 11th. Oh well.

So what do you guys think? Feedback and opinions are appreciated. Thanks.

*Attached is an older photo of my panel. It is mostly up to date, except we now have a Sigmatek attitude indicator and digital clock instead of the analog clock.

 

[jsstevens]

I've flown multiple planes with the TKM MX170C and had no such issues. I suspect it's either the installation or a bad radio. If cheap is king, then that's probably your best bet.

If you have the money and the plane is a longer term "keeper", I'd look into some sort of IFR GPS. I suspect you're in the $10K range installed though. GNS 430W or KLB 94 with indicator would do the job nicely.

John

 

[murphey]

Somewhere in the middle....see if you can find a used SL 30 from reputable shop.

 

[bnt83]

Buy a brand new GNC255 and a used GI106, replace any crap coax and antennas (as applicable) and be happy. $7500 installed means paying about $3000 labor and markup, find a new shop.

 

[CC268]

I've flown multiple planes with the TKM MX170C and had no such issues. I suspect it's either the installation or a bad radio. If cheap is king, then that's probably your best bet.

If you have the money and the plane is a longer term "keeper", I'd look into some sort of IFR GPS. I suspect you're in the $10K range installed though. GNS 430W or KLB 94 with indicator would do the job nicely.

John

Yea we have discussed this, but I don't think that is an option at this point. Just too expensive. And honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if we sell the plane in the next 6 months - 1 year.

 

[CC268]

Somewhere in the middle....see if you can find a used SL 30 from reputable shop.

I suppose that could be another option...

 

[unsafervguy]

If you are going to spend the money to install a new radio, and I hate to say this as much as I hate garmin, get a new 255. The 225 is a comm only. The kx155 is old tech, the display is not replaceable since there is no stock left and a lot of places will not service them anymore. I have two, I love them but their useful life is about over. As stated, the other option since your going to spend install money, is a GPS/com/nav. The screen issue is rapidly coming to the 430 and 530 unit though. I would be looking at an avidyne or a garmin650 if I was to go that route.

Bob

 

[CC268]

Buy a brand new GNC255 and a used GI106, replace any crap coax and antennas (as applicable) and be happy. $7500 installed means paying about $3000 labor and markup, find a new shop.

Yea although it seems like finding a good avionics shop/guy is easier said than done. I will say that Westwind Avionics has been very good to us in terms of turn around time and pricing. But considering they do all the work for the Westwind school I imagine they do have a nice little markup.

 

[bnt83]

If you are going to spend the money to install a new radio, and I hate to say this as much as I hate garmin, get a new 255. The kx155 is old tech, the display is not replaceable since there is no stock left and a lot of places will not service them anymore. I have two, I love them but their useful life is about over. As stated, the other option since your going to spend install money, is a GPS/com/nav. The screen issue is rapidly coming to the 430 and 530 unit though. I would be looking at an avidyne or a garmin650 if I was to go that route.

Bob

I have a beautiful KN53 and KI204 they look like new. I should dump them while they work because of all the reasons you just posted. I won't but I should.

 

[CC268]

If you are going to spend the money to install a new radio, and I hate to say this as much as I hate garmin, get a new 255. The kx155 is old tech, the display is not replaceable since there is no stock left and a lot of places will not service them anymore. I have two, I love them but their useful life is about over. As stated, the other option since your going to spend install money, is a GPS/com/nav. The screen issue is rapidly coming to the 430 and 530 unit though. I would be looking at an avidyne or a garmin650 if I was to go that route.

Bob

I completely understand where your coming from and I agree with you. We just simply can't spend $10-15k on airplane avionics...especially since we won't have this airplane long term. I don't know...I am having lunch with my dad today so I can certainly mention the thought of an IFR GPS. It would be nice, but at this point I think it is nothing more than a day dream.

 

[unsafervguy]

I suppose that could be another option...

there are a lot of used sl30's available from Europe right now as they are being pulled due to the freq requirements over there. The sl30 is a good option also.

Bob

 

[CC268]

So what I am hearing right now from everyone is this:

If you want to go cheap go with the TKM and a 209 indicator.

If you want to spend money go GNC255 and the GI106.

If your feeling frisky go with a 430 or GTN650 paired with a GI106.

Am I correct?

Sounds like the KX155 is just not a good idea...

 

[bnt83]

there are a lot of used sl30's available from Europe right now as they are being pulled due to the freq requirements over there. The sl30 is a good option also.

Bob

They are a nice radio, but used prices are just too high IMHO.

 

[unsafervguy]

So what I am hearing right now from everyone is this:

If you want to go cheap go with the TKM and a 209 indicator.

If you want to spend money go GNC255 and the GI106.

If your feeling frisky go with a 430 or GTN650 paired with a GI106.

Am I correct?

Sounds like the KX155 is just not a good idea...

With a used sl30 and gi106 put in there after the tkm and before the gnc

Bob

 

[CC268]

Buy a brand new GNC255 and a used GI106, replace any crap coax and antennas (as applicable) and be happy. $7500 installed means paying about $3000 labor and markup, find a new shop.

So...what should I be paying for a GNC 255 and GI106 INSTALLED?

 

[unsafervguy]

They are a nice radio, but used prices are just too high IMHO.

I agree. They should not be as close to the price of a GNC as they are. Also the price of the gi106 is stupid expensive.

Bob

 

[bnt83]

I agree. They should not be as close to the price of a GNC as they are. Also the price of the gi106 is stupid expensive.

Bob

Should be able to buy the 106A all day long around for $1200 used. I kinda wanna dump mine for a G5 HSI.

(A lot of GI106A etc should be popping up for sale due to the G5 HSI installations make them redundant. The STC even says to remove them)

 

[CC268]

I thought BendixKing has some sort of refurb program for the KX155 where if the display goes out they can upgrade it to LCD or something for a cost of course...

Nonetheless it sounds like people are recommending the TKM over the KX155 at this point.

 

[idahoflier]

And honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if we sell the plane in the next 6 months - 1 year.

You REALLY need to figure this part out before you make any decisions. You will never get the money out of any avionics you put into an aircraft and if you're going to sell in 6 months - year you are paying a premium regardless of the direction you go.

Is your father IR? After you get your IR do you really think you will be doing a lot of IFR flying?

 

[bnt83]

I thought BendixKing has some sort of refurb program for the KX155 where if the display goes out they can upgrade it to LCD or something for a cost of course...

Let me find you a quote from another forum about it. Its a dead end.

 

[unsafervguy]

I thought BendixKing has some sort of refurb program for the KX155 where if the display goes out they can upgrade it to LCD or something for a cost of course...

Nonetheless it sounds like people are recommending the TKM over the KX155 at this point.

Yea, 2k if nothing else is wrong with the radio. The biggest problem is because of age the caps are starting to leak and need to be replaced. There day is long gone. When I bought them in the early 90s they were the top of the heap, great radio but designed in the stone ages. Just like the 170 probabbly the best radio ever built for ga.

Bob

 

[CC268]

You REALLY need to figure this part out before you make any decisions. You will never get the money out of any avionics you put into an aircraft and if you're going to sell in 6 months - year you are paying a premium regardless of the direction you go.

Is your father IR? After you get your IR do you really think you will be doing a lot of IFR flying?

No he isn't. No lol...I will not be flying my Cherokee 140 in IFR. BUT, I would like to have something that I can stay current in.

At this point I think we need to put something in this airplane that will be RELIABLE, but won't cost us $10,000.

I appreciate everyone's input on here, but it seems like everyone's first instinct is to recommend spending $10k on the panel. This is a Cherokee 140....not a Mooney...not a Bo...not even an Archer. And we don't see keeping this airplane long term.

And your right...what is the point in spending 10k on the panel when we won't get a dime of it back out when we sell the plane.

 

[bnt83]

A whole lot of used KX155 look like they have been at the bottom of a lake, many need to be retired.
Not comforting:

 

[bnt83]

I don't mind TKM but if your wiring is 40 years old it may not be reliable either.

 

[CC268]

I don't mind TKM but if your wiring is 40 years old it may not be reliable either.

The wiring is not 40 years old. This panel was completely redone and rewired in 2010. Every avionics shop that has been under the panel has been very impressed by the neat and tidy wiring job that was done on this.

I just don't have $10k to spend on this man. Period. I'm not sure what else to say. $5k would be reasonable...but it sounds like that just isn't possible to get new stuff for that price.

 

[bnt83]

Val Avionics INS429 would be nice but hard to do that when it doesn't look like you really have a nice comm radio. that kinda sticks you into the nav/com products.

 

[CC268]

I suppose we could have some other avionics shops quote the GNC 255 and GI-106A...see what they come up with.

Otherwise it sounds like were probably headed down the TKM MX170C route with a King 209 indicator...

 

[bnt83]

I suppose we could have some other avionics shops quote the GNC 255 and GI-106A...see what they come up with.

Otherwise it sounds like were probably headed down the TKM MX170C route with a King 209 indicator...

I would get quotes from at least three shops. Picture of you panel and email away.

 

[CC268]

Looks like if I go with the TKM MX170C and the King 209 indicator we will also need the KN-75 glideslope receiver (another $350).

 

[bnt83]

Looks like if I go with the TKM MX170C and the King 209 indicator we will also need the KN-75 glideslope receiver (another $350).

More labor.

 

[CC268]

More labor.

So I know your a knowledgeable avionics guys. Could you please provide me with two of your best recommendations (one being a lower cost option and one being higher cost like the GNC 255 and GI106A). I would very much appreciate that.

 

[bnt83]

So I know your a knowledgeable avionics guys. Could you please provide me with two of your best recommendations (one being a lower cost option and one being higher cost like the GNC 255 and GI106A). I would very much appreciate that.

Its really a crapshoot. Its all gonna depend on what the installer has on hand and is willing to deal with you on.

Maybe you need to send out RFQ not for a specific radio to be installed but rather blanket email shops showing what you have and that you want to replace it with something reasonable cost, using boxes that aren't full of dirt and corrosion (that should be trashed)

 

[CC268]

Its really a crapshoot. Its all gonna depend on what the installer has on hand and is willing to deal with you on.

Maybe you need to send out RFQ not for a specific radio to be installed but rather blanket email shops showing what you have and that you want to replace it with something reasonable cost, using boxes that aren't full of dirt and corrosion (that should be trashed)

Yea...well thanks for the help.

Maybe we oughtta just say screw it and throw in a new GNC255 and GI106A...

 

[bnt83]

Yea...well thanks for the help.

Maybe we oughtta just say screw it and throw in a new GNC255 and GI106A...

Its pretty easy. IMHO that should be the lowest labor costs. A potential buyer might want a G5 HSI and that radio will work with it (SL30 can too), it should be a lot easier to sell the airplane with it.

GNC255 has a built-in 2 place intercom if you wanted to wire it up. I'm not sure what you have now.

 

[CC268]

If anyone finds a nice used GI-106A from a reputable source PLEASE LET ME KNOW! Bennett has them for $2k. Would be awesome if I could find one for $1500-$1700. Prefer not some sketchy shop on eBay.

Thanks!

 

[idahoflier]

And your right...what is the point in spending 10k on the panel when we won't get a dime of it back out when we sell the plane.

What's the point of spending ANYTHING if you're going to sell the aircraft? If there is no rental opportunity I can understand it, but if there are ANY rental IFR birds around your location why not just finish up the rating with a rental? You can also keep current with it and probably save some $ that can go towards the purchase of an aircraft that already has the avionics you want/need.

But, if you really want to do the upgrade, I have no experience with the MX170C but based on your situation it sounds to me like that's your best option.

 

[CC268]

What's the point of spending ANYTHING if you're going to sell the aircraft? If there is no rental opportunity I can understand it, but if there are ANY rental IFR birds around your location why not just finish up the rating with a rental? You can also keep current with it and probably save some $ that can go towards the purchase of an aircraft that already has the avionics you want/need.

But, if you really want to do the upgrade, I have no experience with the MX170C but based on your situation it sounds to me like that's your best option.

Several problems here...we haven't decided just yet that were going to sell the aircraft. I am basically checkride ready (I've met all the hour requirements). I simply need a week or so of checkride prep to make sure I am well "practiced" before the checkride. I have done the entire training in my own airplane. I am very comfortable with it and the configuration. I actually flew a 172 for the long IFR cross country because it had DME and it is very hard to do the IFR cross country around here without a DME or IFR GPS. I flew it just fine, but not being used to new radios and the configuration was a little bit disorienting at times. Could I finish this in another airplane? Sure...but I would need 3-5 flights in it to make sure I was truly comfortable with the airplane. It would cost me an arm and a leg (that IFR cross country cost me almost $1200). Point being...I do NOT want to risk my checkride simply because I didn't want to wait to get my airplane back online. In the grand scheme of things, being partnered with my dad, I have been able to fly this airplane for CHEAP.

Bnt83 has made a good point...we won't get our money back from investing in the avionics, but it will make the plane more attractive to a potential buyer who may want to throw in 2 G5s, or an IFR GPS (assuming we go with the GNC 255).

My dad and I are both pretty sick of these old re-serviced avionics. It's almost like your paying for the inevitable to happen.

 

[CC268]

Did the math...going the TKM route with the King 209, and KN-75 glideslope receiver...your looking at a little over $4500 before install. Honestly it almost makes sense to just spend the extra few thousand for brand new tech.

Actually $7500 for a brand new GNC255 and brand new GI-106 INSTALLED (this was quoted for install price included) seems fairly reasonable to me.

 

[CC268]

And actually while were at it lets add in a GTN 650, and 2 G5s, new audio panel, maybe a JPI 930...maybe upgrade the motor to 180HP. Maybe we can get rid of the Cherokee wing and put on a Lancair wing. Should be pretty cheap

You know what really grinds my gears though? Experimental avionics prices vs certified. It's a travesty I tell ya.

 

[jsstevens]

And actually while were at it lets add in a GTN 650, and 2 G5s, new audio panel, maybe a JPI 930...maybe upgrade the motor to 180HP. Should be pretty cheap

Price it in AMUs, it sounds cheaper. "Only 7.5 AMUs for the new radio."