Tips On Troubleshooting Oil Leak

[Sinistar]

With the help of very helpful and knowledgeable AP got the entire starter adapter removed. He first tried removing rear bolts and loosen front bolts (motor mounts). Couldn't quite get it out. So he took them all out. With the engine hoist with just a bit of lift he had it out just like that. I'm guessing we moved the engine about 1.5" and tipped it about 5 degrees nose down. He went slow and had me watch cables, linkages, etc.

Then we set it back down and put in two motor mount bolts and took the weight off the lift. It never dawned on me how heavy the tail would get with motor lifted!!! But he had me put a small ladder with folded up blanket under a rib(?) Near the tail.

He looked for other stuff and noticed a crack in the muffler (copilot side). Its probably on the heat shield side but were gonna get that welded.

We did not dissassemble the starter adapter. The bearing must be shot with all the wobble on the shaft. So no clue until the engine shop opens it up next week.

So big question is how much metal was let go and how much made it out. The mechanic said, after having done many of these, he believes the alternator belt was too tight. It definitely was crazy tight when I removed it. That took out the bearing and caused the oil seal to walk out. He didn't seem too worried about the motor. But we will know more later. So probably down for another 2 weeks minimum. I know I'm missing summer flying. But definitely beats doing all this when its -18F since our hangar isn't heated yet.

Oh yeah, no apparent cracks on the starter adapter case. And the rear gear has all good teeth.

He also removed the spinner just to ensure if the engine hoist or motor shifted and it bonked the spinner area we wouldn't trash it. He noticed it was one or two spacers shy of what it should really have resulting in internal wear. So that will remedied as well.

I'm learning a lot from this guy

 

[Snowmass]

I don't, but whatever.



That should read: resistance to losing your assets and your freedom when a box of 12 people that don't know anything about aviation maintenance convict you in a wrongful death/ criminal negligence suit.

You may be willing to go rogue on your maintenance practices because "the FAA and everyone else is an idiot compared to THIS engineer" (who earned an engineering degree, what...60 years ago?) but those of us with something to lose aren't going to jump on the bandwagon of a progressive carpet bagger toting the values of ignoring regulations and manufacturer's specifications for our paying customers.

I'm glad you have to had any problems. I really am. But I'm not going to take the risk. It seems the vast majority of us here won't.

The only thing I'm nervous about for you specifically is that when you or your posterity try to sell your airplane(s) when you're gone and the next buyer has a competent inspection done, the offer is going to be insulting to you/them.

If you are REALLY worried about losing all your assets then never carry passengers that are not in your will. This is my rule. Your insurance limits will NOT cover a plane load of PAX and it will always be your fault no matter what. No friends in may plane only family members, period.

 

[Der Fliegermeister]

If you are REALLY worried about losing all your assets then never carry passengers that are not in your will. This is my rule. Your insurance limits will NOT cover a plane load of PAX and it will always be your fault no matter what. No friends in may plane only family members, period.

I'm not talking about liability resultant of my acting as PIC. I'm talking about my liability as an IA when some jackwagon loads his family up after I annual the thing and he makes a PIC error killing himself + fam and the jurors don't know the difference between a wrench and a ratchet (literally).

I can understand where you're coming from with your scenario of family vs friends in the airplane. Frankly, I'm sick of the entire insurance industry (ever own a car in Michigan?).

Also, I should probably arrange a will...I have no dependents yet, but it would be nice to know my parents & brothers would receive and use my things if I punch out.

 

[Sinistar]

Update:

The starter adapter bearing did go out. They found most of the materials but only found 7 bearings. Most likely there were 8. But supposedly some starter adapter models only had seven bearings so the shop is checking. The starter adapter shaft is not damaged though, so that is in my favor.

So assuming for now to have to dig deeper but will of course wait until bearing count is confirmed. I think the next steps are. Pull the quick drain, strain and drain oil into brand new white bucket and look. If that doesn't find anything, flush out with diesel fuel (???). If that doesn't find it, the oil pan comes off. Right now the motor is lifted off and the muffler will be off in a few days so maybe the oil pan removal won't require disconnecting everything. Of course, looking into the motor from the bottom will most likely reveal whatever is next

I must say, this mechanic has been awesome to work with. His main business keeps him really busy and he's finding time here and there to help out which is awesome.

One major lesson learned: maybe more for the continental motors. When its turning over slow like it was, its easy to think its the battery, etc. That's why I was on here earlier asking about battery minder stuff. In reality, that starter bearing was going out possibly due to a overly tight alternator belt which is such a simple thing. That isn't for certain but seems to be a likely cause that also fits. It might also explain why I had less trouble in winter...I always prewarmed it up nice and good before flights. So it bladed over much faster. The same for second flights while this bearing was going out.

 

[mondtster]

Personally, I'd just plan on pulling the pan. It's not hard to do and will hopefully give some peace of mind. It would also provide an easy opportunity to check the lifters for pitting if they haven't been looked at before.

 

[Sinistar]

Personally, I'd just plan on pulling the pan. It's not hard to do and will hopefully give some peace of mind. It would also provide an easy opportunity to check the lifters for pitting if they haven't been looked at before.

Yeah, I'm assuming we will end up this far unless a nice perfectly round bearing comes flowing out the drain hole.

 

[Gary Ward]

Post is a bit long

For the past 15 flights or so the 182 has been running at an oil level just over 9qts which seems to be the sweet spot for not giving the belly a bath. The flight before last I noticed it had dropped a bit so I added 1qt this morning. I had also noticed a few drops on the pavement on that previous flight and again today after taxiing up the hangar. When I pulled the plane into the hangar I have a drip pan and noticed several fresh large drips as there was some fuel from when I previously pulled the fuel sump on the belly. That fuel really magnified the drops...a good thing! Hmmm???? So I crawled under and it had this new layer of oil like it had almost went directly from my newly added quart (before the flight) directly onto the belly.

So I walked the plane and noticed a bit on the co-pilot side exterior just in front of the door about at waist level that streamed out between the upper and lower cowling seem. So I pulled the top cowling. Yep...thin film of oil all over the place. The entire top of the strut was filled with engine oil (not strut oil) like a mini reservoir. So at a minimum it had pooled there if not directly dripped down into that location. There was light film over a lot of the firewall and along various components. I inspected the inside of the top cowling and there wasn't a spec of oil forward of the baffling. Behind the baffling you could see it had misted or sprayed up there.

Needless to say, not gonna fly it. However, I was wondering if anyone has any good tips on how to ground run it and localize the leak? I am comfortable removing / re-installing the lower cowling. I plan to wipe it all down really good after it finally cools off. I will take one last look to see if I can see any hint of the actual source.

My goal was to run it up after cleaning everything. To be safe seems like all I can really do is run it a bit, shut it down a look to see where it is from. That prop just seems too close to where I would have to stand to catch it while idling/running.

So I probably lost 3/4 of quart and maybe as much as 1 quart in about 1.2hrs logged. It is definitely not the strut. No hard landings or porpoising. There is no apparent leak any where around the filler. The filler cap was on tight and lanyard was on. The dipstick was in place. The quick drain valve seems to be forward of he leak and no oil anywhere near it. I can't see any oil up top forward of the rear baffling. But I do see some oil pooled on top of the air inlet duct to the carb. The oil strainer safety wire was still in place but it was too hot to touch to see if it was somehow loose. There was a small drip of oil under at the bottom of the oil strainer. But there was also a bit of oil under other fittings as well in equal amounts.

During the flight I never smelled oil. CHT, oil pressure and oil temp all seemed good. Maybe I could say the prop was a bit slow to cycle to during run-up in these really warm temps which isn't quite the norm. During flight it operated just fine. Zero oil made it to the windshield (thankfully).

It feels like the dipstick leaked or a fitting for oil pressure or oil temperature. The prop governor was removed and inspected last year so maybe that lead to a leak now? Not sure if this is a oil breather type failure.

Fuel burn was normal.

And probably not related but worth mention is that the engine starts have been like a low battery or like a bad connection. I have been keeping it on a tender. The start at OAT of 97F was slow. But today at 70F I expected it to crank right over and it was still like a dead battery so maybe just a battery problem.

I want to 3rd or 4th suggest mineral spirits also know as stodard solvent sprayed on and gently blow off. Best safest way to de grease your plane and motor.

Yeah, I'm assuming we will end up this far unless a nice perfectly round bearing comes flowing out the drain hole.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Yeah, I'm assuming we will end up this far unless a nice perfectly round bearing comes flowing out the drain hole.

That bearing also had cages that keep the balls spaced properly. Was the cage all there? If not, pieces of it are likely somewhere in the engine, possibly hung up in the accessory case.

It would take a really tight belt to bust a bearing. Those bearings also take the tremendous side loading created by the starter's worm gear forcing the pinion gear to rotate. A lot more than belt loads there. Corrosion on the bearing causes it to fail.

While you're at it, spin that alternator and see if it turns freely. Try wiggling the pulley radially and axially. There's a ball bearing in its front (pulley end) and a needle bearing assembly in the rear. The last thing you need is a catastrophic alternator failure shortly after you get everything back together.

If that alternator has lots of time on it, the brushes in it should be checked.

 

[Sinistar]

Update: Should have muffler welded by Monday. If all goes well, will pick up serviced Starter Adapter tomorrow over lunch. Several parts replaced including front cover. But shaft was good which saved 1AMU for that single part. No clue on the bill yet for that but they turned it around quicker than I expected. Found lots of the material still inside the adapter assy.

Mechanic used a fine filter and drained oil. Then washed it out with JetA and used magnets to catch everything he could find. He's going to re-filter the oil and flushed JetA again with a finer strainer bsck at his shop. He thinks he has found everything.

So plan (as of now - may change) is to reassemble. New oil. Limit to 5hrs of local flight. Verify oil pressure,, temps, no new sounds, etc. Then drop oil, strain again, maybe flush again and see if there is any new metal.

He has been been overhauling Continentals for many years so its pretty awesome to be able to watch what he does and be a "student".

To previous poster - yes we checked the alternator for any bearing and other mechanical problems and nothing seems wrong...knocks on wood!

 

[Sinistar]

Update: Things are moving along again. My A&P gets totally saturated with Ag plane mx right about now. However, he did get the starter adapter re-installed. Still needs to wire tie the adapters bolts and futz with one of the motor mounts. Then re-install the newly welded exhaust and put the cowling back on. So not quite ready for the startup yet. But getting closer. With all this wildfire smoke lately I guess I'm not missing much flying. My daughter and I couldn't see our water tower from 1 mile away yesterday afternoon.

 

[Sinistar]

Update:

First flight tonight

Wow does it blade over effortlessly now. All other vital signs seemed normal. Did a high speed taxi first to verify full power and oil pressure. Doing an hour of steep turns 5000ft above the airport got a bit boring. But still nice to be flying. Gonna burn 4 more hours and drop oil for a quick metals check. Fingers crossed that goes well.

 

[Rgbeard]

Update:

First flight tonight

Wow does it blade over effortlessly now. All other vital signs seemed normal. Did a high speed taxi first to verify full power and oil pressure. Doing an hour of steep turns 5000ft above the airport got a bit boring. But still nice to be flying. Gonna burn 4 more hours and drop oil for a quick metals check. Fingers crossed that goes well.

People don't understand how 'boring' the post-maintenance flights can be.

Glad you're on the back-side of this issue now.

 

[Sinistar]

People don't understand how 'boring' the post-maintenance flights can be.

Glad you're on the back-side of this issue now.

No kidding. The flight on Friday I circled up to 10k. Flew 90 degree off legs to figure winds. Cooled off since it was 47F up there Then did this nice ~700fpm circling descent back down over the sleepy airport. I always forget how long it takes to get back down again if you don't want to mess with ears. One more flight left.