Tips on mic fright?

skyflyer8

skyflyer8

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skyflyr
Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some insight on teaching radio communications in a towered environment. Many students catch on quickly. Others have quite a difficult time learning this. I'm wondering if I'm overlooking something.

We train out of an uncontrolled field but my students get a lot of exposure to nearby Class D and some Class C. I start by doing the talking myself so that the student can learn by example. We go through the radio communications sections of the AIM and the textbooks. I also go through some made-up scenarios on the ground. My students take a detailed radio quiz before solo. Some people have benefitted from using the Comm1 VFR software, but not everyone has access to it. Some learn a little from listening to ATC on a handheld or the internet. For many people, the problem goes away after a few hours of practice. For others, talking to ATC is the last thing they want to do, and they struggle even after ground training and lots of inflight practice.

I know this is a common problem, and it probably has more solutions than what I've thought of. What are some other tips and tricks that might help? I haven't had the opportunity to take anyone on a tower visit-- does that really help? I'm interested in hearing some success stories.

Looking forward to your "mic fright" advice. Thanks!
 
Kate,

Sounds like you are doing it right.

Have you used http://www.liveatc.net ? They can get practice listening to ATC. (KBUR/KVNY feed come from my house)

I think it also helps to get them to listen and criticize other peoples communications, this one was missing that piece of information, that one was too wordy...

I've had students more afraid of the microphone than inverted spins (not that we do them in a 172).

Joe
 
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Hi Kate and welcome to POA. Kinda sounds to me like you are making every effort to provide your students with opportunities to learn and overcome "mic fright". Some folks pick up quicker than others...some never pick up at all but the best thing you can do is keep pluggin' away. If any of your students ask how they'll ever learn to do that commo thing right...you can tell them that it's like making it to Carnegie Hall...you gotta practice, practice, practice. Have fun!
 
Is there anyway that you can give them a tour of a TRACON or ATCT? Also do you write a scenerio or role play with your students?
 
Comm1 software is also helpful, or just some practice with fellow students. Maybe you can pair your student up with another student who is good with the mic. If your student has a pilot mentor this is one of the ways the mentor can help you both - by working with the student on "scripts" for ATC calls.
 
HPNFlyGirl said:
Is there anyway that you can give them a tour of a TRACON or ATCT?
Click to expand...

Good advice! This is what did it for me. "You mean these are real people? They drink coffee and poke fun at each other and everything!" After my visit to an approach facility I could see the voice on the radio as a person, and I have always found it easier to talk to a person than to talk "on the radio."

Welcome to POA.
 
welcome again kate.

i recommend the liveatc.net as well as a tower tour. i approach it just as you do. i start out talking then let them take over. the hardest part is letting them mess up, just like anything else. try to pick a slow time of the day to go in so the controllers dont turn you away.
 
another suggestion is take the students into class D(controllers seem a little friendlier) and have them tell ATC they are students on first contact. This worked for me cause controllers talked a little slower and friendlier and told me what i did wrong in a nice voice.as you know Class C is busy and they dont really have time to be nice, they need to be precise. Hope this helped and Welcome to POA.
Dave G.
Also Kate tell them they need to join POA and everyone will help them with any problem they have.
 
Comm 1 is a good tool as well as seeing things from the ATC side. But I have specifically with mic fright the best thing to do is to script out exactly what they are going to say, be there to bail them out, and while flying with them have them talk to you as though they would be talking to ATC.
 
This may not be viable for every student, but when I was taking initial pilot training I got a tape from Sporty's that had a VFR cross country trip recorded that started at an uncontrolled field and visited various airports, towered and non-towered, and included flight following, taxi clearances, etc. I used my 48k Atari 800 and Okidata 9-pin dot matrix printer and typed a transcript of the tape. The repetitive nature of rewinding/replaying the tape (I was/am a slow typist) helped drill in what to expect to hear and say on the radio in a small plane for the various phases of a flight. Imho, the "fright" is a natural response to the unknown, learning what to expect from the radio, and what is expected from you as a pilot, reduces the anxiety considerably.
 
CapeCodJay said:
Let me second your welcome to PoA.

Please visit one of our members sites as well

www.goflyamerica.org


Shameless plug for Nick :)
Click to expand...

Jay,

Kate already listens to The Pilotcast (and no I'm not kidding), so I'm sure she already knows about the ConUS challenge. :D

</shamelessplug>

Welcome aboard Kate!

One thought I had was... Are the controllers up that way as friendly as they are down here at MSN? A controller who sounds mean (even if it's toward someone else, and even if it's justified) is certainly going to raise the stress level.

Another thing - Maybe they're concentrating on flying so much that their brain isn't all there for the radio work? Maybe try flying the plane and just letting them handle the radio so that they can think about it.

How about situational awareness? I remember how, even though I was generally good with the radio and liked it, I wasn't very good on the initial call-up if I wasn't sure of where I was. "Madison Approach, Cessna 3421E over Lake Koshkonong, landing with Alpha" would come out smoothly, while if I didn't know my exact position (and I'm a stickler for accuracy, which didn't help when flying w/o GPS) I'd be more like "Uhhh, Madison Approach, 3421E, we're, uh, about, uh, let's see, maybe 6 and a half southeast of Blackhawk..." and I'd bungle it all up. If the planes you're flying have GPS, let them use that to determine their position before the callup and see if that helps. (I know, you do have to teach them how to get along without it... Just try it as an experiment to see if they're having SA issues.) If you don't have GPS, the same experiment can be done by simply feeding them the position beforehand, or maybe even feed them the whole call and have them repeat it to you before they open the mic.

Another thought is to handle the tougher calls for them (initial call-ups are probably the toughest) and see how they do with the simple ones, like reading back vectors and altitudes.

I know you know I'm not a CFI, but... I'm not a CFI. ;) These are just some thoughts I had. I've been teaching truck drivers enough to know that what seems obvious might not be. I did have a trainee that kept missing turns in big cities even though he had a GPS... He'd get confused at some of the more complex intersections and ask me what to do. I'd say "look at the GPS, and do what it tells you to do." He'd still miss the turn. Turns out he didn't realize he was supposed to follow the purple line! :rolleyes: :rofl:
 
Can't really help, I leaned at a class C, so I was "thrown in the deep end' pretty much from the start. :dunno:
 
Shipoke said:
another suggestion is take the students into class D(controllers seem a little friendlier) and have them tell ATC they are students on first contact. This worked for me cause controllers talked a little slower and friendlier and told me what i did wrong in a nice voice.as you know Class C is busy and they dont really have time to be nice, they need to be precise.
Click to expand...

Depends on the C, Dave. MSN is super-nice which is good because we have a LOT of students here. IME, a lot of C's are nice including GRB where she's taking students. However, my experience at those C's is much more limited.

Then, there are the bad C's. For instance, MKE. They wish they were Chicago.
 
If you're looking for a training tool for VFR communications, try "Squawk VFR". It is a set of audio CDs with actual recordings of in-flight communications, broken up by airspace and narrated. Clips are played, explained, then played again. Then the whole dialog is played all the way thru. Covers non-towered comms, towered comms, approach controller services and flight following, lost procedures and has a 2nd CD that does the same thing with FSS telephone weather briefings.

No canned dialogs. All realworld stuff. It got a good review in the December issue of AOPA Flight Training mag.
 
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Wow guys, awesome. Thanks for the welcome and so many great responses already!

I do most of my instructing at an uncontrolled field between Appleton and Oshkosh, WI so I should check into touring the towers at either of those. I do some instructing at Green Bay (Class C). There it's somewhat difficult to get a tour, because it needs to be arranged well in advance and only at certain times. (Busy and staffing issues.)

Sounds like I need to make it more of a priority to get students into these types of places. We are lucky to have an FSS on the field in Green Bay (for now...), and I have found them very welcoming and helpful folks. The visits seem to be beneficial.

Thanks for the good product recommendations. I will have to try some of those. It's nice that some like liveatc.net are free.

It never dawned on me to try flying the plane myself and let my student do all the talking. Maybe one trip around the pattern like that would help. Gonna try it!

As far as scripts and coaching, sounds good. I think the confidence needs to be built one little bit at a time.
 
I know that the Oshkosh tower is really quiet (MOST OF THE YEAR! :)), so you may be able to get up there. Call ahead, though, because they frequently have only one controller on duty, which makes things difficult. Their number is in the AF/D.

I recently toured Midway's control tower (and (kind of)) met Mike Dreger, a controller there and a participant on POA, and really enjoyed it and learned from it.
 
smigaldi said:
it seems like the class C at MSN also has a lot of student controllers too. I think is a good thing.
Click to expand...

I don't think so... I fly out of there, well, a LOT and I've only heard one new voice in the last three years. The new guy even says "tree" and "fife" which is really weird.

I think part of it is that Wisconsin Aviation has a VERY active flight school (I think last month they soloed about 15-20 people and had about 8 or 10 new PP's). So, the controllers probably work roughly the same number of students as they do 121 flights.
 
Welcome Kate!

A lot of great info already posted and I'll second the Comm 1 CD's they help walk you through a good bit of what you need.

My CFI would always role-play as the ATC, it helped me be more aware of what was coming and generate a response.
 
Welcome aboard Kate.
The thing that worked for me during my pp was using my scanner at the house. It was ALWAYS on (drove the wife nuts), scanning BNA approach and departure, Memphis center as well as JWN CTAF.
I can't say it is the end all for all students, but it worked wonders for me.
Good luck.
 
Kate, I too have heard and flown with people who were intimidated by the radio (and, to the shock of those here who know me, I have even frozen up a time or two myself :D).

In my experience, it's the initial call-up that causes the most angst. The most valuable thing my instructor did with me was to have me (1) write down what I was going to say, (2) practice it once before keying up, then (3) Just Do It.

He also pointed out that most folks (me included) tend to assume that they have to talk *really fast* when, in fact, speaking a bit more slowly and with good clarity actually saves time by requiring fewer "say agains."

So have the student practice training scenarios, record 'em, critique positively and have them slow down, and before you know it, they'll be saying "Any traffic in the area please advise" with sterling clarity.
 
Hey Kate; Welcome.
For me, it was taking a handheld and parking under the approach to a class d. Listening from Cinc, Ground, Tower, to Departure getting used to the lingo, figuring out what I'm going to hear next. I did this about 3 times a week. But the real way to get past mic fright is practice. Either get them up there doing it or practice it with them.
You might also look for "Meet the Controllers" seminars in the area. Once you "know" the guy on the other end of the mic, it's not so bad.
 
Wecome Kate
I myself went through mic fright, I learned to fly at Price Lindens (9G2) just south of Flint MI (FNT). Flint is class C and linden is just beyond the 10 mile ring from Flint. We always went to the south and only went into Flint 3 or 4 times before the checkride. Well the DE was based at Flint so thats where you had to go. I did my checkride and the radio wasn't too bad but I never was real comftable on the radio in controlled airspace. I then ended doing my IFR training in Flint and that was great for my radio work, I just wish that my instructor had taken the time to make us go into Flints airspace more than 3 or 4 times. I now fly out of PTK which is pretty busy and when I did my checkride for the club I joined the instructor made a comment about how good I was on the radio. I belive it was because of my IFR training in Class C (FNT). I also listen to the scanner alot ans acted like I was flying when atc would make a radio call. It really helped that I was on the ground just listening to the radio and got me comftable on the radio. Comm 1 is also a great product that I have used.

Good Luck MIke
 
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one perspective (I didn't read all replies). it may not be mic fright as much as overload. when you are first learning you're concentrating so hard on what you are doing you don't always even hear the calls, or just multitasking enough to remember what to say can be a lot (NOW this sounds so elementary I can't believe I stumbled over it so much but at the time it was one extra layer to contend with).

one thing that REALLY helped make it all click - my instructor said one day "all they really want to hear is WHO WHO WHERE WHAT. don't make it harder than that".

e.g.

WHO - Potomac Approach
WHO - 242AV
WHERE - on the ground at Leesburg
WHAT - VFR

meaning "I'm on the ground, I want my squawk code and departure frequency, we're getting ready for VFR flight"

WHO - Leesburg Traffic
WHO - 242AV
Where and What - departing runway 35, Leesburg

etc.
 
I was taught IPAD

I - Identification - Piper Warrior 36409
P - Position - 10 miles SE of PNE
A - Altitude - through 1200 for 2000
D - Destination - VFR to PNE
(and then "with Foxtrot" for the ATIS)

It works for IFR too - you just leave off the pieces that ATC already knows.
 
My instructor back at Grand Forks (when I flew out of GFK) gave me a script and I reformatted it so that I could fill stuff in before and during each flight. It helped a lot with who I needed to contact, what I had to say, etc., from departing, listening to ATIS, contacting Ground, etc., to returning and talking to Approach, Tower, and finally Ground again.

I can email a copy of the script if you like, I formatted it to fold in half and fit nicely on a kneeboard.

terry
 
All great tips. I think part of the solution will be to make it easier for my students to access some of these resources. It seems everyone agrees they are very useful. I should loan out an extra handheld for students to listen to for a while. Also it sounds like I should make the Comm1 software available to students in my office. I have never actually used that software myself, and so far students have bought it on their own. I'll see if we can provide access to this software.

As far as Oshkosh tower, I'll see what I can do. There can be times where they are very busy. But now that it's winter, things have slowed down a bit.

As far as task overload - a definite possibility, and it looks like I have some tips on how to reduce that.

...Feeling flying withdrawals... it's been snowing all day, and I saw the sun for the first time just now!
 
terzap said:
I can email a copy of the script if you like, I formatted it to fold in half and fit nicely on a kneeboard.
Click to expand...

Terry, you've got things more organized than my scribbled-out notes on notepad paper. Maybe preparing some fill-in scripts would make a good snow day project for me. Could you show us?

Thanks!
 
skyflyer8 said:
All great tips. I think part of the solution will be to make it easier for my students to access some of these resources. It seems everyone agrees they are very useful. I should loan out an extra handheld for students to listen to for a while. Also it sounds like I should make the Comm1 software available to students in my office. I have never actually used that software myself, and so far students have bought it on their own. I'll see if we can provide access to this software.

As far as Oshkosh tower, I'll see what I can do. There can be times where they are very busy. But now that it's winter, things have slowed down a bit.

As far as task overload - a definite possibility, and it looks like I have some tips on how to reduce that.

...Feeling flying withdrawals... it's been snowing all day, and I saw the sun for the first time just now!
Click to expand...

Kate,

Before you buy it let me see if I still have my copy, if I do you are welcome to it. I'll be home on Tuesday and can check that evening.
 
Here it is, a Word doc. Everything in red you can change (or leave blank) to match your airport/frequencies/FBO. I used to keep a half-dozen in my flightbag. Haven't had much use for them since not constantly flying out of Class D any more. (Which might change.)

You want to print them landscape on normal paper, and then fold in half for your kneeboard.

Hope it helps.
 

Attachments

I thought I wouldn't have mic fright. Then the first time my CFI said, you make the call, I was NERVOUS.

At least for me, it was the fear of sounding stupid. It took me a while to get over that fear.

I agree with the "scripting" suggestions -- walk the students through what they're likely to hear. The Who-What-Where-When-Why is also helpful. Prep them on what to expect before you make the calls, then they should be more aware when they make their own.

And never forget the magic words -- "Student Pilot."
 
I'm still terrified of the mic. I think the main problem is that I expect too much of myself, so I get mad when I mess up the call (which I tend to do). The result is that I now have negative emotions associated with the radio.

I always have a script with me in the airplane, along with a listing of every frequency I'll need, in the order I'll need it.

The hardest call, as other have said, is the initial call-up. I use the script and practice before I call. The next toughest thing is just being able to smoothly listen and read back something like a vector. The thing that really helped me learn how to do this better was practice with my instructor. Once we'd done enough instrument stuff that I wasn't overloaded, he'd play ATC whenever I was under the hood. That way I was flying the airplane and I had to soak up the altitudes, headings, etc. (at first they'd just fly by and I'd realize I didn't really hear them, even though I'd heard them. Sometimes I'll even read back correctly then realize I don't remember them five seconds later). I also had to put out a nice, crisp readback. It really helped and I'm pretty good at that part now.

Chris
 
cwyckham said:
I'm still terrified of the mic. I think the main problem is that I expect too much of myself, so I get mad when I mess up the call (which I tend to do). The result is that I now have negative emotions associated with the radio.

I always have a script with me in the airplane, along with a listing of every frequency I'll need, in the order I'll need it.

The hardest call, as other have said, is the initial call-up. I use the script and practice before I call. The next toughest thing is just being able to smoothly listen and read back something like a vector. The thing that really helped me learn how to do this better was practice with my instructor. Once we'd done enough instrument stuff that I wasn't overloaded, he'd play ATC whenever I was under the hood. That way I was flying the airplane and I had to soak up the altitudes, headings, etc. (at first they'd just fly by and I'd realize I didn't really hear them, even though I'd heard them. Sometimes I'll even read back correctly then realize I don't remember them five seconds later). I also had to put out a nice, crisp readback. It really helped and I'm pretty good at that part now.

Chris
Click to expand...

For me there are just the few variables that always change. From there I make the call. I generally don't say much other than the variables which really simplifies things. Keep it simple.

"Ground skyhawk 99607 fboname with mike south departure"

All I really say are the few variables. It's quick and gets the point across. Not much for me to have to think about.

"Tower Skyhawk 99607 14L south departure"

"Departure Skyhawk 99607 out of airportname through 1,700 for 2,500"

"Podunk Tower Skyhawk 99607 10 west 2,500 with mike to land"

A lot of pilots stick a bunch of words between the variables. It does nothing but take time and confuse yourself.
 
smigaldi said:
Kate,

Before you buy it let me see if I still have my copy, if I do you are welcome to it. I'll be home on Tuesday and can check that evening.
Click to expand...

I found the empty jewel box but no CD. I used t carry it around with me in my briefcase but it is not there either. It is probably long gone or in a pile that I have not found. Sorry.
 
jesse said:
A lot of pilots stick a bunch of words between the variables. It does nothing but take time and confuse yourself.
Click to expand...

Yes, true. Students need some help in filtering out what is needed and what isn't. Otherwise they wonder why they hear so many versions of something. Maybe it adds to the nervousness when a student wonders if their version is the "official" one.
 
Nice script Terry, but there's a few phrases and words that can be scratched out.

Example:

GROUND: (GFK – 124.575)
GFK Ground, CESSNA 62Niner3Golf is at Flight Support, ready to taxi for departure to the _________ (direction departing, i.e. NE) requesting traffic advisories, with information ______(ATIS Code).
Click to expand...
I do and will teach dad to say it like this:

GROUND: (GFK – 124.575)
GFK Ground, CESSNA 62Niner3Golf at Flight Support, with ______(ATIS Code) VFR departure ______ (direction) and advisories.
Click to expand...

TOWER: (GFK – 118.40 or 120.55, listen to ATIS)
GFK Tower CESSNA 62Niner3Golf is at runway _____, ready for takeoff.
Click to expand...
My way.
TOWER: (GFK – 118.40 or 120.55, listen to ATIS)
GFK Tower CESSNA 62Niner3Golf ready at ______(runway)
Click to expand...

Just a way to cut down on excess verbage, like Jesse said. Class D's aren't so bad, but going into CLE or even some class C's I usually just say this: (after initial acknowledgement)
2-2-1-2-ROMEO, 3-0 WEST, 5 thousand 5 hundred, with PAPA, (very slight pause) Jet Center.
 
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