Tips for a very long XC (6-8 hours)?

[Kiddo's Driver]

I've done Tennessee to upstate NY to Wisconsin to Washington, DC to Tennessee in a plane slower than a Cherokee 140 and no autopilot. It can be done and is kind of fun! Use www.100LL.com to find the best prices and places with SELF FUEL!!! I love the self fuel CC machines. I second the pint or larger gatoraid bottles. I never buy the yellow kind just in case...

I also second flying in the morning. Obviously it will be smoother, but don't underestimate the suck factor of flying into a setting sun! If you have to fly then, use flight following. They can save your bacon.

I'm a dork about landing in states just to add it to my map...You could get New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri out of this!

 

[coloradobluesky]

Bring some bottles of water. You can pee in the bottles too. Don't fly low or any other antics. Don't push the weather, land and wait it out. Watch out for towers. Check for TFR's. You can get them on your cell phone you know. Don't run out of fuel. Really, watch your fuel, it is most common cause of off airport landings and crashes.

Have fun and good luck! I'm sure you will do well!

 

[Vaflier]

Remember there are 2 gallons in each tank which is unusable which means you only have 46 gallons max fuel usable. Flight plan at 10 gallons per hour and it will add a bit of safety margin. My 140 will get down to about 8.5 gallons leaned out at 75 % power. I like the extra safety margin of planning at 10 gallons per hour. Check your fuel burn at your first stop. You may even want to break the flight into 3 legs about 2.5 hours each for added safety since you are not familiar with this particular plane. Could be a fuel guzzler or have a very small leak. The gauges are useless. Gatorade bottles are priceless when needed. Carry some snacks and bottled water. Bottled water does not seem to have the same effect as Coke or coffee. Carry big ziplock bags cause you never know who or when someone may decide breakfast really did not sit well. Enjoy the flight.

 

[V1-Vr-V2]

Finally a PoA board topic I have some experience with!

Back on January 24, I did a 17.3 hr (logged) IFR XC trip with my CFII from Tampa to Colorado in a PA-28-180 (yeah, I know... it was a looooong day) Our longest leg was 3 hours 41 minutes from Oklahoma to the Denver area. That was too long fuel-wise in the Cherokee 180 -- we were uncomfortably close to legal reserve at that point. I'd say that 3 hours is a good physical limit with no autopilot and it makes sense from a fuel planning standpoint, too, at 10 gph. Assuming you won't be under the hood like I was, it'll be a blast and a great way to see the countryside. I took two Redbulls and plenty of water with me and never had a "gotta land now" moment bladder-wise with those leg lengths. We ate at the FBOs and that, coupled with a few high-calorie Pop Tarts, was more than enough to keep me satiated.

Obviously the longer you're aloft in a day, the less sharp your flying skills will get. If you're flying two pilots definitely double check each other; act like a two pilot crew as much as you can.

Plan on headwinds. Sounds like you've already got the weather brief, but definitely pay attention to the winds aloft. They can ruin your day - nothing like seeing a groundspeed that'd be on par with highway speeds when you're several hours into a flight, not to mention the obvious effect on planned fuel stops.

And along those lines, plan your fuel stops to ensure that the airports you're stopping at have 24 hour fuel. You can look on 100LL or call the local FBO. I assumed 24 hr fuel was a given - I mean, what airport wouldn't have self-service pumps in this day an age?! Well, evidently a lot of them. We almost spent a cold, windy night in Oklahoma because we landed a rather decent GA airport at 10:00 pm on Friday only to find they did not have 24 hours fuel service. (side note: Take cash to cover the call-out fee/tip/bribe for the poor FBO worker who has to come out and fuel you after-hours when you make a mistake like this).

Above all else, have fun, make wise decisions and be safe. You'll make memories that'll last a lifetime.

 

[geoffeg]

Hey everyone. First off, thanks for the suggestions, support and stories of your own experiences. The plane is tied down at KSET near St. Louis, MO after a great flight from from Buffalo, NY yesterday. The flight was straightforward and the plane performed flawlessly. We had moderate to great view along the way including flying along Lake Erie, seeing downtown Cleveland from a distance and dealing with some small rain storms along the way that we had to maneuver around. We did two legs, the first one was around 2.5 hours and the second around 3.5. I now know my limit is around 3-4 hours, especially in a hot cockpit with very little airflow!

A few notes & things I learned:
* No matter how many times you try to convince him, the taxi driver really wants to take you to the big, international airport and not the small, GA airport.
* Just because the airport has 24hr self-service pumps doesn't mean there is 24-hour self-service compressed air to inflate the tires. Thankfully we got an A&P to come out and inflate them for us.
* An unattended airport may be just that. Good luck getting through the locked gate at 7am, even if you've called the airport owner ahead of time to let them know you'll be there early.
* The fuel drain valve may not always seat properly after straining the fuel.
* On a hot day with no clouds worry more about dehydration than a full bladder.

It's a great achievement to be able to fly a plane across 6 states, over 700nm in one day. I feel that I'm a better pilot after the experience.

Thanks again for the posts, everyone. I look forward to my next flights in the Cherokee!

 

[bflynn]

Back when I owned my Cherokee 140, I'd take off (starting off with even amounts in both tanks) and climb on the left tank and fly for 15 minutes then switch tanks, and use 30 minutes on each tank thereafter. The takeoff and full power climb to reach cruising altitude burned much more fuel than level cruise, so this technique helped to obtain better left-right fuel tank balance.

If I recall the POH, the recommended approach is to fly 15 minutes, switch tanks, run until 30 minutes of fuel is left and then switch tanks. I've never understood how you're supposed to know. I like your technique better.

In a 160, I was taught to switch tanks every 30 minutes and it was difficult for me to remember to do that. I eventually found a vibrating pilot watch from sporty's that helped, but the alarm couldn't be set to automatically repeat (seriously!?) I later discovered that they make vibrating reminder wristbands for the ADHD community that will repeat an alarm/message every 30 minutes, but I never did look that deeply into them before I switched to a Cessna. Thought these would have been perfect.

 

[geoffeg]

I've heard many views on the time to switch tanks but we ended up switching every 30 minutes except for switching 15 minutes after takeoff.

I have a Pebble Watch (https://getpebble.com/) that I use with a little app on it called "Multi Timer". It will vibrate continuously when the alarm goes off. It worked great for switching tanks.

 

[nddons]

Hey everyone. First off, thanks for the suggestions, support and stories of your own experiences. The plane is tied down at KSET near St. Louis, MO after a great flight from from Buffalo, NY yesterday. The flight was straightforward and the plane performed flawlessly. We had moderate to great view along the way including flying along Lake Erie, seeing downtown Cleveland from a distance and dealing with some small rain storms along the way that we had to maneuver around. We did two legs, the first one was around 2.5 hours and the second around 3.5. I now know my limit is around 3-4 hours, especially in a hot cockpit with very little airflow!



A few notes & things I learned:

* No matter how many times you try to convince him, the taxi driver really wants to take you to the big, international airport and not the small, GA airport.

* Just because the airport has 24hr self-service pumps doesn't mean there is 24-hour self-service compressed air to inflate the tires. Thankfully we got an A&P to come out and inflate them for us.

* An unattended airport may be just that. Good luck getting through the locked gate at 7am, even if you've called the airport owner ahead of time to let them know you'll be there early.

* The fuel drain valve may not always seat properly after straining the fuel.

* On a hot day with no clouds worry more about dehydration than a full bladder.



It's a great achievement to be able to fly a plane across 6 states, over 700nm in one day. I feel that I'm a better pilot after the experience.



Thanks again for the posts, everyone. I look forward to my next flights in the Cherokee!

Congratulations on your trip! I imagine it must have been a little tough flying westbound late in the day with the sun and haze.

 

[geoffeg]

Congratulations on your trip! I imagine it must have been a little tough flying westbound late in the day with the sun and haze.

It wasn't too bad, we got back to St. Louis around 5pm so the sun had just started shining through the windshield. The plane had no visors so my nose got a little sunburned.

 

[txflyer]

I wouldn't worry about the flight plan, but FF is a good idea. You can change your destination easily enough just by telling the controller.
"Ragtag Center, Cherokee AlphaWhiskey needs to change destination to Hillbillyville, Hotel Bravo Victor"
controller may ask why, I usually just say "I'm hungry."

If we want to stop on FF, I just ask ATC to keep my flight plan on the board and we'll pick them back up when we take off.

They've always done it for me.

I just tell them we need to empty our human tanks and they always understand that.

 

[JoeSelch]

If we want to stop on FF, I just ask ATC to keep my flight plan on the board and we'll pick them back up when we take off.

They've always done it for me.

I just tell them we need to empty our human tanks and they always understand that.

Huh?
ATC knows nothing of your flight plan.

 

[txflyer]

Huh?
ATC knows nothing of your flight plan.

They have your final destination in the system.

I have had ATC tell me they will keep me active for a pit stop and pick me back up when I leave... that's how I learned to ask them to keep me active.

 

[JoeSelch]

They have your final destination in the system.

I have had ATC tell me they will keep me active for a pit stop and pick me back up when I leave... that's how I learned to ask them to keep me active.

Yes.
And that has nothing to do with your VFR flight plan on file with FSS.
They'll still start making calls if you miss the ETA - which I suppose you might, if you make unplanned pit stops...

 

[txflyer]

Yes.
And that has nothing to do with your VFR flight plan on file with FSS.
They'll still start making calls if you miss the ETA - which I suppose you might, if you make unplanned pit stops...

No flight plan. Just FF.

Does anybody file a VFR flight plan anymore besides students?

I bought our plane in 2006, and have yet to file one.

 

[JoeSelch]

No flight plan. Just FF.

Does anybody file a VFR flight plan anymore besides students?

I bought our plane in 2006, and have yet to file one.

Sorry. There was mention of a flight plan in the post you responded to and you included the words "flight plan" in your reply. I *thought* you were talking about a flight plan, not plans for your flight.

FWIW, I do still file VFR flight plans ... When flying through Canadian airspace.