Time to schedule checkride?

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drotto

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drotto
Lets face it this winter has been awful. I was almost ready to do my checkride back in December and since then I have managed to fly maybe 6 due to weather. I was also having issues with getting really good solid to standard landing especially with short and soft field. With all the air maneuvers, I have been ready for a long time.

I flew last week and left the lesson very frustrated, I just could not get those landings consistently. This past Tuesday, I was able to get up before the next storm went through. It was with a different instructor, who I had flown with once before, and frankly I was awful that day. So, the other CFI give me a few tips, and ideas that may help with the landings. The biggest was trying a slightly lower RPM setting on approach moving from 1700 down to 1600 in a Warrior. Initially, this made me feel like I was coming in a bit low, but combine that with a few minor mental tweaks on when to flair and yolk timing, I had a great day. 8 of 10 landing where exactly what they should have been. I am not convinced the different landings feel different enough yet, meaning doing a soft field does not feel that different from a short field, but good progress. Or maybe they just are not that different, and I am making too much of it. We both agreed at the end of the day the checkride should be scheduled very soon.

I am just no sure I am ready. Or is it just nerves?
 
Nerves definitely play a role. A real big one.

But only you and your instructor can say if that's the issue here.

1700 RPM during final descent seems high. I generally aim for 1500 and 500 FPM descent on short final. Your airspeed should be the SHORT FIELD approach speed with full flap unless wind gusts require otherwise. Even lower if you're light.

Most important, set the engine to whatever you need to get that airspeed. If it's a cold day, it may very well be lower than it was in the summer.
 
drotto said:
Lets face it this winter has been awful. I was almost ready to do my checkride back in December and since then I have managed to fly maybe 6 due to weather. I was also having issues with getting really good solid to standard landing especially with short and soft field. With all the air maneuvers, I have been ready for a long time.

I flew last week and left the lesson very frustrated, I just could not get those landings consistently. This past Tuesday, I was able to get up before the next storm went through. It was with a different instructor, who I had flown with once before, and frankly I was awful that day. So, the other CFI give me a few tips, and ideas that may help with the landings. The biggest was trying a slightly lower RPM setting on approach moving from 1700 down to 1600 in a Warrior. Initially, this made me feel like I was coming in a bit low, but combine that with a few minor mental tweaks on when to flair and yolk timing, I had a great day. 8 of 10 landing where exactly what they should have been. I am not convinced the different landings feel different enough yet, meaning doing a soft field does not feel that different from a short field, but good progress. Or maybe they just are not that different, and I am making too much of it. We both agreed at the end of the day the checkride should be scheduled very soon.

I am just no sure I am ready. Or is it just nerves?
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1700-1600RPM, yolk timing, sounds like you were being taught flying in a paint by numbers style.

I couldn't tell you what my exact RPM is on final, or my yolk timing.

Could you fly a pattern with your instrument panel completely covered?

Feeling the airplane is a good thing.
 
James331 said:
1700-1600RPM, yolk timing, sounds like you were being taught flying in a paint by numbers style.

I couldn't tell you what my exact RPM is on final, or my yolk timing.

Could you fly a pattern with your instrument panel completely covered?

Feeling the airplane is a good thing.
Click to expand...

My initial CFI was paint by numbers. I am on my second CFI who is much more by the feeling of the plane. The current CFI made a comment to me that a number of the students he inherited from students trained by CFI's that came from the same three letter school, have had similar issues. I gave the RPM as an example, not as I must hit the number on the gauge thing. I do believe I could land with no panel. And my regular CFI, has been suggesting I schedule my checkride, but again the winter has been brutal.
 
Remember your CFI won't sign you off unless he thinks you can pass the test. He obviously thinks your ready and you are just nervous. It's natural. I'm flying out of LI and this winter has been pretty rough. I wanted to finish up my next rating at least 2 months ago!
 
jordane93 said:
Remember your CFI won't sign you off unless he thinks you can pass the test. He obviously thinks your ready and you are just nervous. It's natural. I'm flying out of LI and this winter has been pretty rough. I wanted to finish up my next rating at least 2 months ago!
Click to expand...

Where on LI, I flew into Republic for my night XC.
 
James331 said:
1700-1600RPM, yolk timing, sounds like you were being taught flying in a paint by numbers style.

I couldn't tell you what my exact RPM is on final, or my yolk timing.

Could you fly a pattern with your instrument panel completely covered?

Feeling the airplane is a good thing.
Click to expand...



Best advice in the thread so far.

Just fly the plane and have fun. Look outside, sit up straight, test your brakes, and forget the instruments if your VMC. Listen to the wind noise and listen for a stall chirp, if you hear it, lower the nose or add a touch of power while lowering the nose. Keep the edge of the pavement right above the glare shield.

A good landing always starts with a good approach. :wink2:
 
My yolk timing is after I get it on the plate and I have some toast to soak it up. Thats the perfect time for yolk.
 
I'll reinforce MAKG1's advice. Pull out your POH, find the recommended airspeed range for the full flaps approach to landing , and take the lower value, which is probably the short field speed target. Focus on nailing your speed on final. Don't "flare", simply pull to idle and start a nice, smooth roundout a wingspan or two above ground. Level off just above the runway and then hoooooooold it off and try to prevent it from landing.

I also couldn't tell you what my RPMs are on final. I set it to 1500 - 1600 RPMs once abeam the touchdown point, and then never look at it again. The remainder of the landing phase is hand on the throttle, looking outside, quick glances and the ASI, and adjusting as needed. I also don't know what a flare is, and hate the word. :)

Now, basically all that's left to turn it into a short field landing is learning where you need to aim to touch down at the appropriate point.
 
I also could not tell you my rpm on short final. I pitch for speed and keep about 400-500 ft/lbs of torque in and it seems to be a good configuration when coming over the fence.
 
NJP_MAN said:
I also could not tell you my rpm on short final. I pitch for speed and keep about 400-500 ft/lbs of torque in and it seems to be a good configuration when coming over the fence.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify. I set the RPM on downwind when abeam of the numbers, after that I ignore the RPM and adjust throttle as needed from that point. I spend 90% + of the time outside with occasional glances down to check my speed. Part of the issue I have is training in a densely populated area with trees makes the ground seem somewhat closer. I have had a tendency to come in high, because of this, which has also lead to the issues I have with short field and soft field.

I have been working very hard at starting a gradual flair, so I can better feel the sink, and make small adjustments rather than more abrupt one which seem to lead to more floating and ballooning.

I do think I am 95% ready for the checkride, but that is a big step, and yes a scary one.
 
I fly part 135. Sometimes I have a plane full of people and I slam in a landing or float it long. You won't always be perfect.
 
I trained in a warrior, pa28-181. I was always taught 1500 abeam. If you're coming in too high try dropping the RPMs to 1500 abeam.

I also had a float/balloon problem. It clicked in my head one day when reading the POA forums that the transition to flare is slow. I was trying to do it step by step: Power off, Level off, wait...., flare! Well the flare part caused me to balloon. When I started the "hold it off" technique, where you level off and then slowly pull back on the yolk as you loose airspeed to keep the plane level, I stopped the ballooning.
 
drotto said:
Just to clarify. I set the RPM on downwind when abeam of the numbers, after that I ignore the RPM and adjust throttle as needed from that point. I spend 90% + of the time outside with occasional glances down to check my speed. Part of the issue I have is training in a densely populated area with trees makes the ground seem somewhat closer. I have had a tendency to come in high, because of this, which has also lead to the issues I have with short field and soft field.

I have been working very hard at starting a gradual flair, so I can better feel the sink, and make small adjustments rather than more abrupt one which seem to lead to more floating and ballooning.

I do think I am 95% ready for the checkride, but that is a big step, and yes a scary one.
Click to expand...

Does your airport have a PAPI? What is your final approach speed? Also, what's your definition of "flare"? Just trying to get a handle on how you land.

Landing is the hardest thing us VFR pilots do. Don't sweat it and keep pounding away at it. And know that speed control is the biggest recurring issue in poor student landings. As Bob Gardner would say, a good landing is a slow landing.
 
If you don't feel like you're ready just hold off and get another day or two of takeoffs and landings under your belt. You want to go in to that check ride and nail it and not wonder if you can happen to make good landings that day. Make it so your worst landing is within tolerances. It doesn't have to be pretty all the time, just safe and within tolerances and demonstrating that you have positive control of the airplane.

Like someone else in this thread said, pitch for airspeed and use the throttle to control altitude. Don't get stuck on certain RPM numbers. It's nice to know a general formula for the plane on the 3 legs that USUALLY match up with targeted airspeeds but different conditions will throw that formula off. Use it to get roughed in but be flexible.

As for the round out, pretty much what others have said about rounding out, leveling off and then holding the nose off and bleeding off that speed as much as you can. Don't be in a hurry to let it get down and don't be in a hurry to flare it. If you've started your round out at the right airspeed it will fall into place when you hold the nose off and your next primary bit of business is keeping on the centerline and using the rudder to align the fuselage with the centerline.

It's a great feeling to grease a landing right on the centerline as that stall horn is buzzing away...
 
drotto said:
Lets face it this winter has been awful. I was almost ready to do my checkride back in December and since then I have managed to fly maybe 6 due to weather. I was also having issues with getting really good solid to standard landing especially with short and soft field. With all the air maneuvers, I have been ready for a long time.

I flew last week and left the lesson very frustrated, I just could not get those landings consistently. This past Tuesday, I was able to get up before the next storm went through. It was with a different instructor, who I had flown with once before, and frankly I was awful that day. So, the other CFI give me a few tips, and ideas that may help with the landings. The biggest was trying a slightly lower RPM setting on approach moving from 1700 down to 1600 in a Warrior. Initially, this made me feel like I was coming in a bit low, but combine that with a few minor mental tweaks on when to flair and yolk timing, I had a great day. 8 of 10 landing where exactly what they should have been. I am not convinced the different landings feel different enough yet, meaning doing a soft field does not feel that different from a short field, but good progress. Or maybe they just are not that different, and I am making too much of it. We both agreed at the end of the day the checkride should be scheduled very soon.

I am just no sure I am ready. Or is it just nerves?
Click to expand...

I could write almost the same post for me. My CFI told me yesterday, time to start our Checkride prep. He keeps telling me to work on soft and short field landings when I go out on my own. Hell I'm to busy working on landing period. I am no longer nervous or scared of landing but I still need a lot of practice. I trust his judgement and I am ready. But I am still making mistakes. It is a fun ride and process! I have to tell myself he said time for prep, not time for Checkride. I am definitely ready for the prep. Just not the Checkride. Good luck on your prep as well!!:thumbsup:
 
Remember, the check ride is to see if you are safe, not perfect (at least for a private pilot). Just about everyone overdoes that.
 
Personally, once I understood performance landings in ppl training, I began to treat normal, short and soft field landings the same while in the air. It's just that you need different actions after touching down. Granted, the short field requires that spot landing, but still, there is no reason to treat them differently until the wheels hit the tarmac. Maybe that is just my take on it though. I'm still learning every time I fly.

Just keep on it, you will be fine.
 
Flew with my regular cfi today. At the end of the flight he called the dep.
 
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