Tiger maintenance

JBrown243

JBrown243

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Sep 6, 2012
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San Jose, CA
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Jason
Hello. Im looking into maybe getting a Tiger. I found a 1992 Grumman Tiger, 9000TT, 1750 SMOH, with Dual Garmin 430's, Garmin Xpdr, S-Tec 30 AP, Wheel Pants, And More!

Are there and A.Ds I should know about when looking into these. 9000hrs on a '92 makes me nervous. Are there any time limited parts on these the plane is priced very low.
 
This where the type clubs can be your best friends.
 
Great airplane and very good year.. But that is a lot of hours! Probably 3 times or more what others of that year have..
And yes there is a big life limited part that is the main spar, just from memory I think it is 12500 hours.
Most planes will never hit that number in the owners lifetime but this plane is too close in my opinion..

Good luck in your search...
 
9000 hrs? Thats 350 hrs/year. Almost an hour every day. Flight school plane, I'm guessing. And yes, main spar life is 12,500 hrs. And main spars with documented hours for a Grumman are pretty much unobtanium. I'd move on to another plane candidate.
 
"Move on to another plane" just because the spar is down to it's last quarter of life? There's 3500 hours left on it . . . I've owned my Mooney for almost 11 years, and have put ~650 tach hours on it. At that rate, it will take 48 years to hit 3500 hours.

If this plane is in good mechanjcal shape and equipped the way you want, buy it at a discounted price. Be aware that when you sell it, it will sell again at a discount.
 
I've seen that plane listing online. I would be hesitant. At 1750 SMOH, assume an overhaul in the not too terribly distant future. After the 30K that gets dropped for the OH, you would then have over $75K invested into a plane that is is essentially 2000 hrs until end of life....that $75K investment doesn't look so good anymore. It's priced cheap for a reason.

Perhaps it may be worth it if you buy it to build some hours and sell it (for cheap) when it needs the OH...then again, buying airplanes is expensive once you add in the sales tax. If you really want a Tiger in that price range, I would be looking for a mid-time 70s vintage version...although it will likely have old-school avionics and interior.
 
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Probably the 250 time left on the engine is the major concern. Unless of course it's running like a top and your comfortable running past recommended time.
 
That's a high time plane alright, unless it's a killer deal why not keep looking, I mean it's a common tiger, not a Japanese zero


mr_happyland said:
I've seen that plane listing online. I would be hesitant. At 1750 SMOH, assume an overhaul in the not too terribly distant future. After the 30K that gets dropped for the OH, you would then have over $75K invested into a plane that is is essentially 2000 hrs until end of life....that $75K investment doesn't look so good anymore. It's priced cheap for a reason.

Perhaps it may be worth it if you buy it to build some hours and sell it (for cheap) when it needs the OH...then again, buying airplanes is expensive once you add in the sales tax. If you really want a Tiger in that price range, I would be looking for a mid-time 70s vintage version...although it will likely have old-school avionics and interior.
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30k?

Damn dude, I'll have what your MX shop is having lol
 
James331 said:
That's a high time plane alright, unless it's a killer deal why not keep looking, I mean it's a common tiger, not a Japanese zero




30k?

Damn dude, I'll have what your MX shop is having lol
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ok...maybe that number is closer to a factory rebuilt price ;) I haven't lately researched all the different pricing options (and hopefully I don't need to!!!!!) Let's say $20K...does the deal look any more appealing? Nope.
 
Are you willing to be the plane's last owner and part it out when you're done? If so, maybe it's worthwhile. While you may never fly the remaining spar life off, you're going to take a major hit on resale (if you can sell it) when you're done with it.
 
Questions
1. why not a good used engine when you no longer trust the one installed?

2. at 12,500 hours, why can't that spar be replaced with an owner supplied part?
 
Tom-D said:
Questions
1. why not a good used engine when you no longer trust the one installed?

2. at 12,500 hours, why can't that spar be replaced with an owner supplied part?
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I'm guessing one cannot get the necessary engineering data to have an owner-supplied main spar made.
 
bradg33 said:
I'm guessing one cannot get the necessary engineering data to have an owner-supplied main spar made.
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Reversed engineering, authorized by 21.9 (7). think DER.

I can build spars for antique and classic aircraft under this authorization, why not a Grumman?
 
Tom-D said:
2. at 12,500 hours, why can't that spar be replaced with an owner supplied part?
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Have at it! Want to use my pen to certify that little bit of happiness? :rolleyes:
 
JAWS said:
Have at it! Want to use my pen to certify that little bit of happiness? :rolleyes:
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The better question, would it be worth doing?
The paper on it would be easy.
 
bradg33 said:
... While you may never fly the remaining spar life off, you're going to take a major hit on resale (if you can sell it) when you're done with it.
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That depends entirely on the entry price.

If the seller's expectation is unrealistic, move on. If not, perhaps an opportunity to close on a good value proposition, if it passes a proper pre-purchase.

It's already a "high time" airplane, so should be well depreciated. And unlikely to be a hangar queen with corroded engine internals if it's been flying regularly.
 
Tom-D said:
Questions
1. why not a good used engine when you no longer trust the one installed?

2. at 12,500 hours, why can't that spar be replaced with an owner supplied part?
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Stirring the pot eh?
 
wow. all good advise here. I was very hesitant and for all the same reasons posted. I was not aware of the time limited spar, but, doubt I'd fly 3500hrs. Last plane I owned I only flew 250 hrs in 3 years. That means in 3-5 years I'd have to overhaul it, which I planed for. The big concern is if it was a rental. I've seen how people fly rental aircraft. Kinda Scary. I think I'll make a low offer and if it does not take I'll move along. Thanks for the info
 
JAWS said:
It is all easy on the internet! :)
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The paper work is always the easy part, I have no idea what it would entail to change a main spar man hour wise, But if there was money in it some one would try.
 
JBrown243 said:
wow. all good advise here. I was very hesitant and for all the same reasons posted. I was not aware of the time limited spar, but, doubt I'd fly 3500hrs. Last plane I owned I only flew 250 hrs in 3 years. That means in 3-5 years I'd have to overhaul it, which I planed for. The big concern is if it was a rental. I've seen how people fly rental aircraft. Kinda Scary. I think I'll make a low offer and if it does not take I'll move along. Thanks for the info
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I've seen private owners fly their planes like crap too, when it comes to judging based on a aircrafts old mission or if it sat, or where it was based, it's about as useful as reading tea leaves, it's ALL ABOUT THE PREBUY.

Now with those hours on a life limited plane, I wouldn't touch that thing for over 10k, and frankly even at that I'd rather put that money towards a solid plane.

Just not worth it for the hassle and the fact that this close to the end of life for the spar, which no one is going to go to the trouble of replacing for a common and inexpensive aircraft like the tiger despite Tom's pot stirring, each hour you fly it is really going to lower the value, I mean put 500hours on a C120 and it won't make much of a difference value wise on the airframe, 500hrs on a 9,000hr Grumman with a 12,000 lifespan, it WILL make a difference.


If you must go down this path, buy it with the thought process that down the road when you want a larger/faster/more fun aircraft and you are now ready to sell that tiger, you're not going to sell it as a plane, you're going to sell it as parts/scrap.
 
James331 said:
If you must go down this path, buy it with the thought process that down the road when you want a larger/faster/more fun aircraft and you are now ready to sell that tiger, you're not going to sell it as a plane, you're going to sell it as parts/scrap.
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Ya-know, that may well be the way to go, we see that most of the GA fleet, is not worth the cost of a new/rebuilt engine, but used o-360- are at a premium for the RV builders.
And with the small market for used Grumman parts that airframe probably is worth more as parts.

Just a thought. You'd certainly must do the home work.
 
Fun airplane, loved mine, but sold it in October. With that engine time, you should perform the SB valve wobble test. With that airframe time, I'd pass.
 
One more thing... Do yourself a favor and ignore anything Tom D says about Grumman aircraft! He has some kind of grudge against the brand and always has to get involved in any thread about Grummans.

The people that own them love them.. The people that have owned them say they loved them and a good portion say they wish they still had it..

Good luck with your search.


PS.. I am not looking for any answer as to why Tom doesn't like them. With all do respect I don't care and won't respond..


JBrown243 said:
Hello. Im looking into maybe getting a Tiger. I found a 1992 Grumman Tiger, 9000TT, 1750 SMOH, with Dual Garmin 430's, Garmin Xpdr, S-Tec 30 AP, Wheel Pants, And More!

Are there and A.Ds I should know about when looking into these. 9000hrs on a '92 makes me nervous. Are there any time limited parts on these the plane is priced very low.
Click to expand...
 
iflyatiger said:
One more thing... Do yourself a favor and ignore anything Tom D says about Grumman aircraft! He has some kind of grudge against the brand and always has to get involved in any thread about Grummans.

The people that own them love them.. The people that have owned them say they loved them and a good portion say they wish they still had it..

Good luck with your search.


PS.. I am not looking for any answer as to why Tom doesn't like them. With all do respect I don't care and won't respond..
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And yet he said absolutely nothing negative in this thread, even mentioned potential options regarding the time-limited spar if the OP continues with the purchase.
 
Banjo33 said:
And yet he said absolutely nothing negative in this thread, even mentioned potential options regarding the time-limited spar if the OP continues with the purchase.
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But he specifically asked a question he knows the answer to, in typical fashion, in order to get the argument going.
 
Actually I think he was baiting with his replies in this thread. That's my opinion..


Banjo33 said:
And yet he said absolutely nothing negative in this thread, even mentioned potential options regarding the time-limited spar if the OP continues with the purchase.
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I own an older Tiger and have spent less than I expected in first year for maintenance and repairs. If you can get a guru to do your prebuy and a discount considering the spar life, it could be a good option. Tigers are fun, fast (considering) and economical.
 
iflyatiger said:
Actually I think he was baiting with his replies in this thread. That's my opinion..
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That may be the case. But why take the bait? Instead, threads just continue going down the same old road (as this one is beginning to). No sense in me throwing stones though as I’m as guilty as the next guy, I guess.
 
iflyatiger said:
Actually I think he was baiting with his replies in this thread. That's my opinion..
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actually no,, if there are Grummans that will be needing spars, I'm thinking why not get an STC to do the deed.

Lots of readers here believe I hate the Grumman's Which isn't true. The idea came from the Days when I ragged on Ron about them. But that's OK they can think what they want.
The little Grummans aren't my kind of aircraft, I don't enjoy flying them, But I don't hate them.
Some folks here also believe you must have BA in Grumman to work on them, also not true, they are nuts and bolts holding together common off the shelf parts and a Lycoming Engine, Nothing really special about them.
Back to the OPs ideas, I see no good reason to throw away a good aircraft of any make or model just because it has a time life item at its limit. There are legal means to continue in service by replacement of those parts.
I'll bet if you looked hard enough you could find a salvage yard with a good one you could simply swap it out by a Loog book entry.

OBTW I'd still like to know why 9000 hours would scare ya away.
 
TheFB said:
I own an older Tiger and have spent less than I expected in first year for maintenance and repairs. If you can get a guru to do your prebuy and a discount considering the spar life, it could be a good option. Tigers are fun, fast (considering) and economical.
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They should be economical to own, there is no constant speed prop, no turbo charger, no retracting gear.
 
Tom-D said:
Any reason other than the spar time life?
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If it's the last plane he'll own, and gets a great discount price, then maybe ... but he may potentially have to sell that aircraft later, and it's going to be hard to move. They're fun airplanes, and with the "save face" landing gear it's pretty easy to grease landings consistently.

Question for you Tom (and am not the bashing type here): Can a type certificated AC be converted to experimental?
 
danhagan said:
Question for you Tom (and am not the bashing type here): Can a type certificated AC be converted to experimental?
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I'm not saying it can't be done, but it is very difficult to do.
FAR 21 covers this. you are asking for a new type certificate, for an already certified aircraft, the best you can hope for is a type certificate in the restricted category for testing.
FAR 21, sub part D starts at FAR 21.91 it is complicated and mostly intended for manufacturers to change type design, but it applies to anyone who wishes to change type design of a existing product
Study the whole FAR 21, your answer is in there. ( 21.211 probably)
 
Tom-D said:
Ya-know, that may well be the way to go, we see that most of the GA fleet, is not worth the cost of a new/rebuilt engine, but used o-360- are at a premium for the RV builders.
And with the small market for used Grumman parts that airframe probably is worth more as parts.

Just a thought. You'd certainly must do the home work.
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From one extreme to another.

You must be flying some clunkers Tom.
 
James331 said:
From one extreme to another.
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It certainly is, try and save it? junk it ? how much money do you want to spend vs how much your trying to recoup? would be a pretty difficult decision.
 
James331 said:
You must be flying some clunkers Tom.
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Right now I'm getting a little time in a nice polished 172. belongs to a friend/ customer. does what I need to do, as cheaply as any.
Clunker? to some, but not me, just a good old honest aircraft.
 
Just saying, I wouldn't fly a plane that wasn't worth enough to warrant a engine overhaul.
 
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