Tie Down Fees

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Kevin Holbrook

Pre-takeoff checklist
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So our local airport (9I3) in Eastern Kentucky is a small facility. One runway. Small ramp. 8 aircraft based on field. There are some hangars, but most aircraft are outside on tie downs.

The airport has no services, no lights, no attendant. The tiedowns have been free and first-come / first-served for years.

The county has now decided that the airport has to move toward self-sustaining status. They believe that we should begin charging fees for tie downs, and the local owners and Airport Board feel this is reasonable.

We just don't know what to charge!

I would appreciate input from POA members regarding their experience with these fees. Remember, small airport, no fuel, no services, no attendant. Just paying for a parking spot.

Thanks in advance!

Kevin
 
But then you get in a death spiral because as each tenant leaves, the other are expected to pick up more of the share and then more leave.

Charging a fair, or even “cheap” rate could bring in more business and money than a higher rate. Take avgas for example, one airport charges $3.75 and everyone in the county flies there to fill up. The other one charges $5 and nobody bothers unless they need 5 gallons to make it to airport number 1.
 
It has to be related to the municipalities expenses. So, what are taxes, etc. divided by number of available tiedown spots. I know nearby they charge $50/month but they have an FBO, fuel, lights, approaches. Can’t imagine it should be much. What happens with extra money above the town’s costs? Does it go to general fund? Once that happens the ramp fees will skyrocket. Just say’n


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OP here to clarify...

We are not expected to be self - supporting and make enough to cover all fees. With no fuel or services to sell, that just isn't going to happen. We will never be "(MoneyOut-MoneyIn)/#tenants?"

What we have to do is "move towards being self supporting" or at least not be completely supported by the county.

What we think we need to do is come up a fee schedule that is "reasonable", "usual and customary", "in line with industry averages" etc so that our fees will be defensible and viewed as realistic by the county.
 
You should investigate buying the airport. Long term property investments are never bad.
That said, there are many things to consider.
Would the taxes be more than tie down fees?
Would you go private, or public? = insurance for public use?
Up keep and maintenance?
 
For reference, $20/MO for tiedowns in the Boise, ID area...
 
No services at all and 8 locals. You'll just be charging for a reserved spot. That's it.

Seems like all is peaceful in (9I3) Eastern Kentucky but now you want to stir things up. Of course no one will object extra money coming in on the board but I'm sure aircraft owners will get mad that they didn't have to pay and now you want to bill them and provide no extra services.

If you really want to do it then charge $16 a month or $180 for the year.

That's an extra income anywhere from like $1440 - $2304 /year
 
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I don't know what to charge but one point I'll throw in is for stuff like this try to come up with a method that makes it as easy to pay as possible. Assuming you don't charge a really high amount the thing that's going to irritate people the most is partly the principal of paying for something that used to be free but also now they've got something new they have to go deal with.

I like the idea of the yearly pay amount. I also wonder if you couldn't get people interested in funding improvements.... there aren't any other airports really close to you so stuff like a self-serve gas pump or a shelter to park under or something would probably be huge. Maybe offer lifetime free tie-down in exchange for a few thousand dollar donation towards improvements that might draw traffic and other revenue sources. Just a thought, I don't know what the economics of doing any of those things would actually be.
 
I was based at KHTW, a stone's throw from E. KY, and used to eat at the Cloud Nine Diner at Paintsville-Prestonsburg Airport (KSJS, I think). When I moved in 2014, tie downs at KHTW were ~$125/year when paid in advance (by the end of Jan), and slightly more if paid monthly.

Don't need Big City pricing out in the coal fields!
 
$20/mo shouldn't offend anyone too much.

However, for the fee there should be some stuff they aren't considering. Are the tie down rings/chains/markings all being kept up to snuff? How about taxiway markings, windsock, and the other customary items at an airfield?

The law of unintended consequences may well lead the county back to thinking, "it's okay, they can park for free."
 
Also if I'm paying for a monthly tie down spot I don't want it being taken by a transient. So reserved spots would be in order.
 
I paid $30/ month for a tie down at an airport with two large runways and a GPS approach. They fueled my aircraft for me and charged me self serve prices.

I now pay $250 a month for a hangar at the same airport and get the same services.
 
They may be looking for a way ,to shut down the airport. What does the town consider, the cost of operation?
 
$60 in Connecticut a couple of years ago, might be a bit higher now. There's a FBO, fuel, A&P, and avionics shop on the field, and a long wait for hangars. I don't know how much of a profit Whelan (the strobe light company, who owns the field) takes from the airport.
 
So who's going to collect the fees? Are you going to hire someone to go around and check who's there to send them a bill? Are you going to make any improvements for the added costs? Are spots going to be reserved? Are the tie down rings in good shape? Are the chains/ropes at the tie downs?
 
Yeah I'm at $180 for a full service community hangar- meaning the FBO takes it out and puts it away, does all the fueling, and will plug in the pre-heater or anything else I need taken care of.

KY will be in a similar price range. A lot of people there would balk at paying anything for a tie down.... I've never priced a permanent tie down but I'd expect it to be significantly cheaper than hangars.
 
For the entertainment for all you folks who like to gloat at other’s pain I present the monthly fee schedule of KSJC in San Jose, CA. Note that I’m told that the nearby GA airports are worse.

88c82a7d436b569f5b2be87dafb0eeb7.jpg



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jimhorner said:
For the entertainment for all you folks who like to gloat at other’s pain I present the monthly fee schedule of KSJC in San Jose, CA. Note that I’m told that the nearby GA airports are worse.

88c82a7d436b569f5b2be87dafb0eeb7.jpg



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Click to expand...
Get out of that hell hole.
May as well have made the hangar $111 more than what they are charging.
 
frfly172 said:
They may be looking for a way ,to shut down the airport. What does the town consider, the cost of operation?
Click to expand...

One would believe there isn’t much cost operating this airport, but mowing the grass (~14 acres) and maintenance / replacement of hard paved surfaces aren’t cheap. With the few aircraft based there, a 100% self funded airport is impossible.
 
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South Jersey - tiedowns at 2 very nearby airports with instrument approaches $85-$100 a month and you have to bring and use your own tie downs ropes/straps.

Community hangar is $325 and the smallest T-hangars without power are $475 Newer hangars with power are $550 and up. There is a waiting list for either. NJ is almost as bad as CA.
 
jimhorner said:
For the entertainment for all you folks who like to gloat at other’s pain I present the monthly fee schedule of KSJC in San Jose, CA. Note that I’m told that the nearby GA airports are worse.

88c82a7d436b569f5b2be87dafb0eeb7.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

Their tie-downs are more than my hangar... and $50 for just being on the waiting list :|

Also what is a "Taxi in"?
 
cowman said:
Their tie-downs are more than my hangar... and $50 for just being on the waiting list :|

Also what is a "Taxi in"?
Click to expand...

Yeah, real estate is unreal out here. That includes the space to put a plane. On the plus side, if one was able to get into the housing market years ago the equity in a home is worth a fortune now. And the jobs pay quite well...

709bfec94952eceea7fc7a9a6b80c59c.jpg


Taxi in spots are shown on the left. Taxi into the spot and taxi out. Regular tie downs are on the right. No way to taxi in if the other planes are there. Of course, as can be seen from the photo, not a lot of tenants in San Jose. That is something I don’t understand. The hangar and tie down fees are more expensive at the nearby class D Reid Hillview and are much more expensive in Palo Alto. Yet more people want to keep their planes at those airports than at San Jose. Maybe they’re nervous about the idea of basing at a class C airport? Dunno.


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cowman said:
Yeah I'm at $180 for a full service community hangar- meaning the FBO takes it out and puts it away, does all the fueling, and will plug in the pre-heater or anything else I need taken care of.

KY will be in a similar price range. A lot of people there would balk at paying anything for a tie down.... I've never priced a permanent tie down but I'd expect it to be significantly cheaper than hangars.
Click to expand...

Each to his own but I would never let anyone else pull my plane out or push it back in. That's what causes hangar rash.
Other people don't care if they bang your stuff up, most people don't care if they bang their own stuff up. That is why there is so much junk out there.
I am very anal though....
 
Unlikely the local gov't knows what it costs to maintain; they might have a number, but it's probably a guess, perhaps influenced by other agendas. Even if somewhat accurate, it will still be "elevated" if they use gov't employees to do the work - one guy to ride the moower, two guys to watch him, then when he finishes one of the other two will paint some lines. Slowly.

Try $200 a year and in-kind; mow it yourselfs.
 
pigpenracing said:
Each to his own but I would never let anyone else pull my plane out or push it back in. That's what causes hangar rash.
Other people don't care if they bang your stuff up, most people don't care if they bang their own stuff up. That is why there is so much junk out there.
I am very anal though....
Click to expand...

I honestly was worried about the same thing when I moved into this airport a few years ago but this was the only spot available so I went with it. Been here 4 years and so far not a single issue, only the FBO line staff are allowed to move planes in/out and they're all pretty careful. Now that I've gotten used to it I don't really want to go back to pushing around the airplane myself. The only complaint I really have is they don't let you do oil changes in there(for obvious reasons).
 
I've paid $25/month at both of the airports I've tied down at. Uncontrolled fields just outside Atlanta. The one I'm at now has two runways, instrument approaches, fuel, etc. A hangar (if you can get one...I think the waiting list is 2+ years) starts at $250.
 
Sundancer said:
Unlikely the local gov't knows what it costs to maintain; they might have a number, but it's probably a guess, perhaps influenced by other agendas. Even if somewhat accurate, it will still be "elevated" if they use gov't employees to do the work - one guy to ride the moower, two guys to watch him, then when he finishes one of the other two will paint some lines. Slowly.

Try $200 a year and in-kind; mow it yourselfs.
Click to expand...

The airport is owned by Morgan County and West Liberty.
Morgan County KY has a population of less than 14,000 with 3,300 living in West Liberty. The median family income is less than $40,000.
 
cowman said:
Their tie-downs are more than my hangar... and $50 for just being on the waiting list :|

Also what is a "Taxi in"?
Click to expand...

Krnt is about the same with a waitlist not only for hangars, but even tie downs


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jimhorner said:
For the entertainment for all you folks who like to gloat at other’s pain I present the monthly fee schedule of KSJC in San Jose, CA. Note that I’m told that the nearby GA airports are worse.

88c82a7d436b569f5b2be87dafb0eeb7.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

About a gooder or same deal at Auburn WA, KSEA area. But, I could fit a Duke in my hangar and still have room for all my rocks and crap for the RV that I used to park in there with the plane.

In regards to the op topic. I would be worried that without some income trending to the positive, that the city would try to make that land into a parking lot for a dollar store or worse, a walmart.
 
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