Throttle quadrant overlay

M

MSUDavid

Pre-Flight
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
39
Display Name
Display name:
MSUDavid
My throttle quadrant overlay is broken in the middle for my Piper Archer. I bought it from Wag Aero. It is the piece that just has two slots that says throttle open and closed on the left and mixture lean and rich on the right. I tried to upload a pic, but it says the file is too large.

The one I purchased from Wag Aero was cheap plastic and very flexible. Does anyone know of one that is more robust, maybe made out of rolled aluminum or something more sturdy?
 
mine is cheap plastic as well and is cracked as well lol... and everything i have seen online is cheap plastic too with huge price tag so didnt bother changing it. ohh the cover right under the flap level is cracked too
 
Yeah, but look on the bright side… Look at how much extra useful load you have with that light plastic control covers.
 
The product from SAIR Corp costs a few extra dollars, but it is well worth it as it lasts such a long time and is a good quality product. I've bought one for two different airplanes now because I like it so much.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
The product from SAIR Corp costs a few extra dollars, but it is well worth it as it lasts such a long time and is a good quality product. I've bought one for two different airplanes now because I like it so much.
Click to expand...
dont know what thermo-formed is, is it metal or still plastic?
 
Can you pull a Peter and just have one fabricated out of sheet metal? Might not be cheap but I bet it will look great and last forever

I replaced all the plastic bits in my FJ Cruiser like the gear shift handle, door handles etc with solid custom CNC'd matte aluminum

Was actually surprised at how relatively cheap it was. Found a guy on the forums who had a CNC machine and tinkered in his spare time with it..

Would you need FAA and special bureaucracy paperwork for that?
 
Tantalum said:
Can you pull a Peter and just have one fabricated out of sheet metal? Might not be cheap but I bet it will look great and last forever

I replaced all the plastic bits in my FJ Cruiser like the gear shift handle, door handles etc with solid custom CNC'd matte aluminum

Was actually surprised at how relatively cheap it was. Found a guy on the forums who had a CNC machine and tinkered in his spare time with it..

Would you need FAA and special bureaucracy paperwork for that?
Click to expand...

not even going to try... when i do the interior , might explore ... honestly, dont even care if that entire cheap plastic falls off
 
Tantalum said:
Would you need FAA and special bureaucracy paperwork for that?
Click to expand...

Would this fall under interior trim? As long as the W&B change is negligible can't imagine switching to more durable plastic or fabricated out of .020 aluminum.

Is it possible to buy a new one an reinforce the common breakage areas with epoxied .020 aluminum or just a bead of epoxy with thread embedded?
 
Tantalum said:
Can you pull a Peter and just have one fabricated out of sheet metal? Might not be cheap but I bet it will look great and last forever

I replaced all the plastic bits in my FJ Cruiser like the gear shift handle, door handles etc with solid custom CNC'd matte aluminum

Was actually surprised at how relatively cheap it was. Found a guy on the forums who had a CNC machine and tinkered in his spare time with it..

Would you need FAA and special bureaucracy paperwork for that?
Click to expand...

Owner produced part. No bureaucracy paperwork. I'm gonna have arm rests 3D printed by one of my customers since that 50's plastic broke.
 
EdFred said:
Owner produced part. No bureaucracy paperwork. I'm gonna have arm rests 3D printed by one of my customers since that 50's plastic broke.
Click to expand...
owner produced part ok. do you have the piper engineering drawing for it?
 
not so.
here is what the FAA has published about owner produced parts.

1. The part must be properly designed. A properly designed part means that the part’s design is FAA approved. Depending on the complexity of the part, a FAA approved design will have the following elements:



  • Drawings, specifications to define the part’s configuration and design features.
  • Information on dimensions, materials, and processes necessary to define the structural strength of the product.
  • Airworthiness limitations and instructions for continued airworthiness.
  • Any other data necessary to allow by comparison, the determination of airworthiness of later products of the same type.
    2. The part must be produced to conform to the design. A properly produced part means the part conforms to the FAA approved design. Usually a properly produced part will have the following characteristics:

  • The part complies with all applicable structural requirements of its design.
  • The materials and products conform to the specifications in the design.
  • The part conforms to the drawings in the design.
  • The manufacturing processes, construction, and assembly of the part conform to those specified in the design.

being structral has nothing to do with it being an approved part, it only makes it a minor alteration not a major alteration. every replacement part on a type certificated aircraft must be an approved part. so, without the engineering drawings you need to determine the material it was made from, the dimensions of the part and all design and construction notes on the drawing.

now, if you want to modify the original part, and it does not fall under a major modification that changes how it can be done. but the paperwork is different. if you modify the original and the AP (and more importantly the IA at annual) decides its a minor mod, then the AP must so state that in the log book entry. such as,"strenghtend and refaced the thottle quadrant cover, modification done in accordance with AC 43.13. now if the modification meets the definition of major then it must be done with APPROVED data, not ACCEPTABLE data that he minor needs, and it needs to be inpsected by an IA and a 337 prepaired and submitted to the FAA.

as to a new panel. to make it an an owner produced part, which falls under the above, it must be exactly the same as the factory part. if you are changing shape, size, thickness, mounting system, ect then you are not making an owner produced part but are making a modification to the type design. that can be either a major or minor modification depending on the aircraft. that differnence brings on different levels of documentation that is require and data that must be used. and the process that is used to return the aircraft to service.
 
Yes because my instrument panel is going to make the plane fall out of the sky and my armrest is going to make the plane fall out of the sky.

You FAA bureaucracy sycophants can go CFIT.
 
EdFred said:
Yes because my instrument panel is going to make the plane fall out of the sky and my armrest is going to make the plane fall out of the sky.

You FAA bureaucracy sycophants can go CFIT.
Click to expand...


So someone offers a different opinion on a subject, and this is the best you can offer?

I actually agree with your position on this (not the one quoted) and I can also see the point unsafervguy is making.

Instead of the vitriol against anyone who has a different viewpoint, why not just accept not everyone sees everything as you do?

No need to throw back yet another temperamental response.
 
unsafervguy said:
A properly designed part means that the part’s design is FAA approved
Click to expand...
Honest question - is that actually written or is that your inference to the term "properly designed"

..why wouldn't the FAA just say "FAA approved" .. if the latter I would assume "properly designed" pretty much means that if the thing you built causes an accident you better be able to defend it to a group of lawyers, a judge, and potential jurors that it was designed in a competent manner.. a benchmark Peter would undoubtedly fail

EdFred said:
my armrest is going to make the plane fall out of the sky
Click to expand...
EdFred said:
my instrument panel is going to make the plane fall out of the sky
Click to expand...
..I agree with you, but to appease the lawyers lets say your instrument panel pinches some wires that causes a short and a subsequent fire.. OR, let's say your armrest affects your ability to manipulate something in the cockpit. Lawyers will do virtually anything to pin the blame..

For example, a couple incompetent pilots deployed the slats in an MD11 at cruise China Eastern Flight 583, and instead of saying "these guys are idiots, don't do things when you're not supposed to" instead the NTSB had 13 recommendations, including an AD https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...5BCB72DCF54A620486256A080065E0B4?OpenDocument
 
Tantalum said:
Honest question - is that actually written or is that your inference to the term "properly designed"

..why wouldn't the FAA just say "FAA approved" .. if the latter I would assume "properly designed" pretty much means that if the thing you built causes an accident you better be able to defend it to a group of lawyers, a judge, and potential jurors that it was designed in a competent manner.. a benchmark Peter would undoubtedly fail



..I agree with you, but to appease the lawyers lets say your instrument panel pinches some wires that causes a short and a subsequent fire.. OR, let's say your armrest affects your ability to manipulate something in the cockpit. Lawyers will do virtually anything to pin the blame..

For example, a couple incompetent pilots deployed the slats in an MD11 at cruise China Eastern Flight 583, and instead of saying "these guys are idiots, don't do things when you're not supposed to" instead the NTSB had 13 recommendations, including an AD https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...5BCB72DCF54A620486256A080065E0B4?OpenDocument
Click to expand...


Well my panel replacement, was a replacement to a replacement. Solid aluminum panel with cutouts. When the MVP50 went in, it needed a square cutout not the circles and rectangles in there. So the right half got pulled out, I made measurements for the contour, put the MVP where I wanted it and handed the CAD file to the waterjet operator. Clamped the newly cut panel to the old, filed the edges to match exactly and drilled the mounting holes to match the previous.

Which Piper drawing was I going to rdfer to for this?

As far as the throttle/armrest...its "repairable" under part 43 until fully replaced just like Theseus Ship with the same exact dimensions, except higher grade material.
 
Tantalum said:
Honest question - is that actually written or is that your inference to the term "properly designed... why wouldn't the FAA just say "FAA approved"
Click to expand...
In the context of owner-produced parts "properly designed" follows the established guidance and provides the flexibility to produce parts without a PMA or PC. "FAA Approved" has its own connotation and would not allow the owner-produced regulation to stand on its merits. While all this looks confusing once you've done it a few times it is pretty straight forward. 135/121 have been using this provision for decades on a regular basis. But after years of mythical BS about the process at the Part 91 coffee shop level everyone thinks its voodoo and too hard to accomplish.:rolleyes:

EdFred said:
Well my panel replacement, was a replacement to a replacement.
Click to expand...
EdFred said:
Which Piper drawing was I going to rdfer to for this?
Click to expand...
EdFred said:
As far as the throttle/armrest...its "repairable" under part 43 until fully replaced
Click to expand...
The thing is you've intermixed various FAR sub-sections in describing one action. If you want to produce a part you follow Part 21. You want to repair a part, Part 43. You want to alter a part Part 43 Appx A. Simple. Follow the specific guidance and everything you have mentioned in this thread can be easily performed in accordance with existing guidance--to include the write up to go with the work. Lack of knowledge of this guidance is not a defense. It's there for anyone to use. If you rather not follow the guidance then so be it. But unfortunately you set up the next APIA you signs your annual to take the fall as he owns all your installs and changes. Perhaps we should make every owner sign a aircraft conformity statement every year that their aircraft meets its type design to offload that responsibility from the APIA when they sign the annual?? But I understand it's easier to whine about something then actually try and learn it.;)
 
Well this was all done with the knowledge of the IA, and it's already been signed off on multiple annuals.
 
This is one of the reasons I won’t explore this lol
 
Tantalum said:
Honest question - is that actually written or is that your inference to the term "properly designed"

..why wouldn't the FAA just say "FAA approved" .. if the latter I would assume "properly designed" pretty much means that if the thing you built causes an accident you better be able to defend it to a group of lawyers, a judge, and potential jurors that it was designed in a competent manner.. a benchmark Peter would undoubtedly fail



..I agree with you, but to appease the lawyers lets say your instrument panel pinches some wires that causes a short and a subsequent fire.. OR, let's say your armrest affects your ability to manipulate something in the cockpit. Lawyers will do virtually anything to pin the blame..

For example, a couple incompetent pilots deployed the slats in an MD11 at cruise China Eastern Flight 583, and instead of saying "these guys are idiots, don't do things when you're not supposed to" instead the NTSB had 13 recommendations, including an AD https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...5BCB72DCF54A620486256A080065E0B4?OpenDocument
Click to expand...
That was copy and pasted from a faa written article in a faa newsletter.
 
WannFly said:
ok. if its still plastic... i think am gonna pass
Click to expand...

I can understand your reluctance, but this is not the cheap plastic that you may be used to with aircraft interiors. At the end of the day though, you want what you want. Just thought I'd offer this up since it is definitely a more robust option and readily available.
 
BGF_Yankee said:
I can understand your reluctance, but this is not the cheap plastic that you may be used to with aircraft interiors. At the end of the day though, you want what you want. Just thought I'd offer this up since it is definitely a more robust option and readily available.
Click to expand...
I does look rather nice. My original is starting to look its age. I’m going to see if the holes match up for a PA28-181.
 
I’m resurrecting this because I’d like to commission someone to fab me this piece. Aluminum, thick plastic, doesn’t matter as long as my hand won’t fall through it. If it has the labeling then great, otherwise I could just buy an overlay and have it glued or riveted on. The piece I currently have is flimsy and broken like the OP describes and makes my otherwise nice interior look bad. I’m talking the 2 slot throttle quadrant plate for PA28-181.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top