Three rules of Aviation

SkyHog said:
I frequently hike in areas around 12,000', and aside from being fat and out of shape, I have no problems, nor do I make poor decisions. Don't need an altitude chamber (which, btw, simulates altitude) to tell me how I'll act at 12,000ft.

I do, however, notice a difference above 14,000ft. You are absolutely wrong in your blanket statement.
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When you hike around are you sitting still and essentially limited to mental processes?
 
dmccormack said:
When you hike around are you sitting still and essentially limited to mental processes?
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No - even worse, I'm moving around, blood flowing, short of breath because I'm out of shape.

But I don't run into trees or think it'd be fun to jump down 50ft cliffs either.
 
SkyHog said:
No - even worse, I'm moving around, blood flowing, short of breath because I'm out of shape.

But I don't run into trees or think it'd be fun to jump down 50ft cliffs either.
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Then how do you know you will perform flawlessly when you're sedentary and required to make judgements at the same altitude?
 
SkyHog said:
No - even worse, I'm moving around, blood flowing, short of breath because I'm out of shape.

But I don't run into trees or think it'd be fun to jump down 50ft cliffs either.
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IME, significant physical activity keeps your O2sat elevated or at least provides more oxygen to the brain compared to sitting idle at the same altitude. Perhaps the much higher blood flow combined with the heavy breathing does the job. I have no problems skiing at 10,000+ altitudes but sitting in the plane for a few hours that high definitely slows down the mental processes. One of these days I'm gonna remember to carry and use my PulseOx when I go skiing in the mountains to see what's really going on with the percentage of hemoglobin carrying O2 in my blood.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think you understand that the effect can be subtle.
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I have a friend who ran into the subtle effects one evening when flying high above Disney World. When he found himself singing loudly, "Its a Small World" he checked his O2 level and reluctantly returned to earth.
 
SkyHog said:
Don't need an altitude chamber (which, btw, simulates altitude) to tell me how I'll act at 12,000ft.
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Uhhh... Huh? Are you saying that reducing pressure to what it would be at 12,000 feet (or whatever altitude) is somehow going to give you a different O2sat than being in an airplane at 12,000 feet would be? :dunno:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Uhhh... Huh? Are you saying that reducing pressure to what it would be at 12,000 feet (or whatever altitude) is somehow going to give you a different O2sat than being in an airplane at 12,000 feet would be? :dunno:
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Apparently, when results are posted at 12,000ft where people can't write their names or do simple arithmetic. When that happens at 12,000ft, either something is wrong with the chamber, or the chamber leads to unbelievable results.
 
SkyHog said:
Apparently, when results are posted at 12,000ft where people can't write their names or do simple arithmetic. When that happens at 12,000ft, either something is wrong with the chamber, or the chamber leads to unbelievable results.
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I believe that's 18,000 feet... Maybe you should try a chamber ride sometime. :yes:
 
SkyHog said:
Apparently, when results are posted at 12,000ft where people can't write their names or do simple arithmetic. When that happens at 12,000ft, either something is wrong with the chamber, or the chamber leads to unbelievable results.
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Ahh, see, 12,000 doesn't give you a "buzz" that you notice overtly though. It's more incipient than that. It's more about noticing things, or rather failing to notice things, and it takes just a bit longer to process data. It's not that we can't do it, we just can't do it as quickly. That's why I rate my max altitude by the complexity of thinking I'm going to require. SE VFR, sure, I'll go 14,000 for a while, I've gone even a bit higher to get a close up view of a mountain peak (why do you think you learned turns on pylons?:D), but SE day VFR, I'm ok with the reduced cognitive capabilities. It's a risk I am willing to take. I will not do it in IMC, I want the cognitive capability of no higher than 10,000'. It is not a risk I'm willing to take because flying in the soup can get very busy very quickly. Most of my time in IMC has been hand flown before I got in planes with autopilots. I had over 2000 hrs before I flew a plane with an autopilot. When things go wrong in IMC, you can't afford any loss of cognitive ability.
 
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