Thoughts on Bellanca's 7 ACA

Rene

Rene

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Rene
Hi,

17F and I landed a job working the flight line this summer.

So far the only airplane that I've ever manipulated the controls of has been a sweet little early '70s Bellanca (Osceola WI) Champ 7 ACA complete with the two-banger 60 HP Franklin and . . . well . . . lots of character. Is it short sighted (or amazingly perceptive) of me to do as much of the work that I can to obtain a PPL in said airplane with just a hand-held, ASI, smiley-face, Altimeter, Mag Compass, OPI, Tach, and OTI? Is it better to learn the basics without distraction, or to go in with more bells and whistles?

Rene
 
For private pilot training and the practical test, you will need an aircraft with a VOR receiver / indicator and gyroscopic instruments. That doesn’t mean you can’t also use Bellanca.
 
Clip4 said:
For private pilot training and the practical test, you will need an aircraft with a VOR receiver / indicator and gyroscopic instruments. That doesn’t mean you can’t also use Bellanca.
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I don’t believe VOR is required anymore.

I’d recommend doing as much as you can in the Champ.
 
As Dana said, “it will make you a better pilot.” It will!!!
I learned in a few different aircraft. Soloed in a Cherokee 140. Did most of my cross country training and solo in a Piper Colt. Had a couple hours in an original Cub - learned to hand prop and we did rolls and loops. Then I finished up and took my check ride in a Citabria. All a long time ago. Then I used to rent a Chzmp for $8/hr wet. That tail dragger experience will stay with me forever.
 
Another vote for do as much as you can in the Champ. Anymore Electronic navigation requirements can be done with you phone. A Good Handheld with a Headset can meet the ATC requirements. It is possible the only things you might not be able to do in the Champ are the Instrument and night requirements.
Another option would be to get you Sport Pilot Rating in it which doesn't have the Instrument and Night Requirements.
 
brcase said:
Another vote for do as much as you can in the Champ. Anymore Electronic navigation requirements can be done with you phone. A Good Handheld with a Headset can meet the ATC requirements. It is possible the only things you might not be able to do in the Champ are the Instrument and night requirements.
Another option would be to get you Sport Pilot Rating in it which doesn't have the Instrument and Night Requirements.
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I might have considered that if I could have started this summer. But I cannot "rent" the aircraft without parental permission and that is not happening. So, I have a year to save up and enjoy those free rides -- and free stick time -- that I am occasionally gifted. I know of people who have done a SPL+, making sure that their cross-countries, etc., meet PPL standards, but not doing the strictly PPL items (like instruments and night).
 
brcase said:
Another option would be to get you Sport Pilot Rating in it which doesn't have the Instrument and Night Requirements.
Click to expand...

Sport Pilot does require training to fly by reference solely to instruments if the plane has a max speed over 87 knots, though it doesn’t have the time minimum like Private.

Comes from the XC requirements. CFR 61.93(e)12
 
Half Fast said:
. . . . if the plane has a max speed over 87 knots . . .
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Horizontally or in a 90* dive? :cool:

A-759 XXII. "Airspeed Limits Level flight or climb 95 m.p.h. (83 knots) True Ind. Glide or dive 129 m.p.h. (112 knots) True Ind."
 
Rene said:
But I cannot "rent" the aircraft without parental permission and that is not happening. So, I have a year to save up and enjoy those free rides -- and free stick time -- that I am occasionally gifted.
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Many a highly accomplished pilot has started out that way.
 
Rene said:
Hi,

17F and I landed a job working the flight line this summer.

So far the only airplane that I've ever manipulated the controls of has been a sweet little early '70s Bellanca (Osceola WI) Champ 7 ACA complete with the two-banger 60 HP Franklin and . . . well . . . lots of character. Is it short sighted (or amazingly perceptive) of me to do as much of the work that I can to obtain a PPL in said airplane with just a hand-held, ASI, smiley-face, Altimeter, Mag Compass, OPI, Tach, and OTI? Is it better to learn the basics without distraction, or to go in with more bells and whistles?

Rene
Click to expand...
Very astute! But make sure you have enough grass — land on it, don't smoke it.;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
I don’t believe VOR is required anymore.

I’d recommend doing as much as you can in the Champ.
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True, but the applicant needs an aircraft with flight instruments for simulated instrument portions and it’s unlikely a training aircraft with these instrument won’t have VOR receivers. The applicant may be tested on any navigation system in the plane including ADF if so equipped,
 
Half Fast said:
Sport Pilot does require training to fly by reference solely to instruments if the plane has a max speed over 87 knots, though it doesn’t have the time minimum like Private.

Comes from the XC requirements. CFR 61.93(e)12
Click to expand...
You would have to shag a 60hp Franklin pretty hard to exceed 87 knots in a Champ.
 
dtuuri said:
Very astute! But make sure you have enough grass — land on it, don't smoke it.;)
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They are easy to distinguish, 18R / 36L is 4000 feet of nice well drained grass with yellow cones marking the sides . . . 18L / 36R is much longer, paved, and has lots of cars, SUVs, and semis on it much of the time. :cool: (CFI jokes are much like dad jokes.)
 
There’s zero doubt a low power tail dragger with few distractions will make you a better pilot. I bought a Cessna 140 after being in a flying club w a 172 my first 10 years. That c140 taught me more in my few hundred hours in her than I learned my first 10 years.

I moved up to a Mooney last year, heard all the tales of ya can’t slow em down, they’ll float a runway away, etc, etc. The skills that 85hp taildragger pounded into made the transition simple as could be. Had to get used to faster everything but the stick n rudder and airspeed control that lil bird taught me made the transition simple.

The classic 172 and Cherokee 140 as trainers are no doubt great birds in many many many respects. However I think they are also such benign birds that demand little of the pilot that they often leave valuable lessons behind without notice. Land it 15kts fast it’ll work out just fine to where many pilots don’t even realize it. If I did that in my Cessna 140 things woulda worked out fine but if it wasn’t a wheel landing you woulda at least known ya didn’t nail it. And that’s what little underpowered tail-draggers do… they are a CFI w wings in my opinion.

Navigate the technicalities of training but do as much as you can in that bird. Talk to the dpe too, I’m no expert on that stuff but I talked to one who said he would do someone’s private in my c140, he said there are alternative things they can do to the VOR stuff n such. If I recall right he said he would probably just ride em very hard on paper map nav…
 
Is there a place (maybe here?) where I could post screenshots of a 17 page 1971 Operators Handbook for a Franklin 2A-120?

The Franklin Engine Company doesn't exist anymore, and while the O-120 shares many parts with the O-235 and O-350 (it is basically half of the first and a-third of the second), to my understanding WSK/PZL are no longer supporting it.
 
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Rene said:
Is there a place (maybe here?) where I could post screenshots of a 17 page 1971 Operators Handbook for a Franklin 2A-120?

The Franklin Engine Company doesn't exist anymore, and while the O-120 shares many parts with the O-235 and O-350 (it is basically half of the first and a-third of the second), to my understanding WSK/PZL are no longer supporting it.
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I came across this. https://www.franklin-engines.com/en/
Not sure if these are the same as the original PZLs.

As a side note, there is a very interesting story about the demise of Franklin engines. I don't know how true the story is, but according to it, Lycoming played a big role, even going as far as hiring goons to destroy some of the tooling.
 
My brother just went all the way through ppl training in a j3 cub,checkride included.It does have a radio but no VOR,I think he just tracked a radial on ForeFlight lol.

Note,this was in Alaska so they may sing to a different tune up there;)
 
I learned in a J3 back in 1969 when I was 15. There's only so much you're going to get from it, eventually you gotta move up. That being said, after 55 years of flying I've gone full circle and now I'm in a 90 hp Champ just to keep scratching that itch.
 
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