Thoughts on Beech Debonair? 33model.
- Thread starter CharlieD3
- Start date
denverpilot
Tied Down
Flies like a slow Bo... heh. Fairly comfy.
Other than that, I’ve got nothin’.
Other than that, I’ve got nothin’.
CharlieD3
En-Route
Okay .. up to 20 kts slower... Hm.Flies like a slow Bo... heh. Fairly comfy.
Other than that, I’ve got nothin’.
But no magnesium ruddervator.
Just had an acquaintance, one of the line men pushed his Bo into a pole... Spread the ruddervator.... Cha ching!
Just a little spread... Could total the aircraft... Insurance wise....
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schmookeeg
En-Route
I personally only look at B33 onwards, way too many quality of life improvements over the straight and A models. Of course, for the right discount, I'd consider early debs, but the price would need to start with "4" or less.
The 225hp + mogas setup is a win if you can get the fuel.
The 285hp/300hp/TAT converted planes are on par with similar Bos, and will chew the appropriate sized hole in your wallet.
The 260hp G33 is a really nice compromise if you can't get mogas, and a real sleeper on the market. I love the IO-470N, bulletproof little motor, IMHO better than any of the others you'll find in the 33 series including the 550 converted debs.
Check useful loads. I've seen some alarmingly low numbers on some debs. (like mid 800#s low --)
Spar web AD is a low risk on these birds. I'd focus pre-buy energy on engine health.
In the age of V-tail panic, a premium for SRS Aluminum elevators is probably warranted. If your bird doesn't have em, consider selling the deb tail fins to a poor V-tail and have him buy YOU the aluminum replacements You'll make a friend quickly that way.
Aerobatic variants seem to hold their value insanely well.
Worth a purchase of the "Those Incomparable Bonanzas" book if you want to get way into the nitty-gritty details of each of the subvariants.
$0.02
The 225hp + mogas setup is a win if you can get the fuel.
The 285hp/300hp/TAT converted planes are on par with similar Bos, and will chew the appropriate sized hole in your wallet.
The 260hp G33 is a really nice compromise if you can't get mogas, and a real sleeper on the market. I love the IO-470N, bulletproof little motor, IMHO better than any of the others you'll find in the 33 series including the 550 converted debs.
Check useful loads. I've seen some alarmingly low numbers on some debs. (like mid 800#s low --
)Spar web AD is a low risk on these birds. I'd focus pre-buy energy on engine health.
In the age of V-tail panic, a premium for SRS Aluminum elevators is probably warranted. If your bird doesn't have em, consider selling the deb tail fins to a poor V-tail and have him buy YOU the aluminum replacements
You'll make a friend quickly that way. Aerobatic variants seem to hold their value insanely well.
Worth a purchase of the "Those Incomparable Bonanzas" book if you want to get way into the nitty-gritty details of each of the subvariants.
$0.02
CharlieD3
En-Route
I personally only look at B33 onwards, way too many quality of life improvements over the straight and A models. Of course, for the right discount, I'd consider early debs, but the price would need to start with "4" or less.
The 225hp + mogas setup is a win if you can get the fuel.
The 285hp/300hp/TAT converted planes are on par with similar Bos, and will chew the appropriate sized hole in your wallet.
The 260hp G33 is a really nice compromise if you can't get mogas, and a real sleeper on the market. I love the IO-470N, bulletproof little motor, IMHO better than any of the others you'll find in the 33 series including the 550 converted debs.
Check useful loads. I've seen some alarmingly low numbers on some debs. (like mid 800#s low --
Spar web AD is a low risk on these birds. I'd focus pre-buy energy on engine health.
In the age of V-tail panic, a premium for SRS Aluminum elevators is probably warranted. If your bird doesn't have em, consider selling the deb tail fins to a poor V-tail and have him buy YOU the aluminum replacements
Aerobatic variants seem to hold their value insanely well.
Worth a purchase of the "Those Incomparable Bonanzas" book if you want to get way into the nitty-gritty details of each of the subvariants.
$0.02
Better'n 2¢! I'll give you a whole nickel... What's your fax number?
Thanks for the insight!
fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
JEB
Pre-takeoff checklist
Beech model 33s are nice. Some people call them Baby Bonanzas. Go to Beechtalk.com and do a search to find more answers than you can imagine.
The Debonair started out as a sort of entry level bonanza and ultimately became every bit as nice as the V tail model 35s that most people think of when we say "Bonanza". Engine horsepower can be 225, 270, 285 or 300. The F33 is every bit as fast as the V35B (the last model of the V Tail version). If you find an early BE33 with an upgraded engine, you've probably found a speed demon with a good UL.
Both the Debonair/33 line and the model 35 line are sometimes referred to as "short body" bonanzas. The fuel is stored in bladders that run along the leading edge of the wing. This means that weight shifts rearward as fuel is burned off. These planes frequently have impressive useful loads, but ... depending on the CG, some of these planes can have you in a situation where your CG shifts so far to the rear that landing becomes risky. Long story short - the plane might have a large useful load, but it can't always be used. You need to pay attention to your weight & balance and run some numbers using the CG for the plane you are looking to buy before making a decision. The Beech model 36 has a 10" longer fuselage, an even better useful load. The wing sits further back and therefore the plane has a much more flexible loading envelope.
This sounds obvious, but look for a plane that is corrosion free and with the best engine/panel/interior combination you can find.
What kind of a budget are you working with?
The Debonair started out as a sort of entry level bonanza and ultimately became every bit as nice as the V tail model 35s that most people think of when we say "Bonanza". Engine horsepower can be 225, 270, 285 or 300. The F33 is every bit as fast as the V35B (the last model of the V Tail version). If you find an early BE33 with an upgraded engine, you've probably found a speed demon with a good UL.
Both the Debonair/33 line and the model 35 line are sometimes referred to as "short body" bonanzas. The fuel is stored in bladders that run along the leading edge of the wing. This means that weight shifts rearward as fuel is burned off. These planes frequently have impressive useful loads, but ... depending on the CG, some of these planes can have you in a situation where your CG shifts so far to the rear that landing becomes risky. Long story short - the plane might have a large useful load, but it can't always be used. You need to pay attention to your weight & balance and run some numbers using the CG for the plane you are looking to buy before making a decision. The Beech model 36 has a 10" longer fuselage, an even better useful load. The wing sits further back and therefore the plane has a much more flexible loading envelope.
This sounds obvious, but look for a plane that is corrosion free and with the best engine/panel/interior combination you can find.
What kind of a budget are you working with?
CharlieD3
En-Route
A retiree's fixed income budget. Not to say not do-able... Just surveying all options... Kinda like a newly minted pilot... One that isn't newly minted... But I'd Rusty and just getting back into it...
Thanks for more insight.
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I did my complex/hp in a B33. Solid plane, fliys like a dream, but they have their quirks. Horrid flaps, horrid cockpit placement, horrid vernier throttle...
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
I co own an E33, which is the first straight tail generation called a Bonanza. The trim is much nicer than the Debs I've seen. Mine has the 470K, though we run 100LL only. Easily does book numbers, so really only 10-15 knots slower than a 520/550 A36. UL is nearly 1100 after the panel got done. The plane is ridiculously easy to fly, especially landings.
13 GPH under 8000 for 152-155 kts. 11.5-12 higher for similar numbers. Easily climbs to 11000, or even higher.
The only thing I'd change is to go to a 520. Then it is a 170 knot plane.
Also, Bonanza trim 33s have more space inside
Not that slow, and will torch an A36 with a similar engine
I find the vernier throttle assists in their incredibly easy landing.
13 GPH under 8000 for 152-155 kts. 11.5-12 higher for similar numbers. Easily climbs to 11000, or even higher.
The only thing I'd change is to go to a 520. Then it is a 170 knot plane.
Also, Bonanza trim 33s have more space inside
Flies like a slow Bo... heh. Fairly comfy.
Other than that, I’ve got nothin’.
Not that slow, and will torch an A36 with a similar engine
I find the vernier throttle assists in their incredibly easy landing.
j1b3h0
Line Up and Wait
V tail guy here, but I’d advise buying the newest version you can afford. Like the V’d airplanes, when Beech put the 520 engine on the front they moved the aft cabin bulkhead back 19 inches, making for a much larger (inside, at least) airplane. If not a 520 powered one the G33 is a nice choice. Buy yourself a copy of “THOSE INCOMPARABLE BONANZAS” by Larry Ball. Good luck!
ktup-flyer
En-Route
Because an A36 is a lot bigger.
FWIW, I have always been a club member, a non-equity "owner", or a renter. I've flown about 30 make and model singles. My No. 1 favorite is a Deb I flew for a few years.
It was fast, but that's because it had a IO550 STC. 165 KTS at 65% power.
and Bonanzas are the easiest airplane to land.
It was fast, but that's because it had a IO550 STC. 165 KTS at 65% power.
and Bonanzas are the easiest airplane to land.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
Yeah, the V tail is a great plane, but parts scarcity issues with the ruddervators alone would scare me off.
Well, a fair bit bigger. Still, 33 model Bonanzas are very, very comfortable - especially compared to earlier Debs.
What was the fuel flow for that? I'm skeptical of the value of an IO550 in a Deb, looking at cost/benefit. The 470N or 520 seem like perfect solutions for the smaller airframe, unless you're in Denver.
Also, easiest airplane to land is right. You use almost no pitch with the yoke when you're doing it right.
It was in Denver
Flew in those mountains for a few years. Photo is from my last flight in that beautiful airplane.That 165 knots was leaned out to about 11 GPH.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
You have my attention. What would that do at 13-14?
bnt83
Final Approach
Just have to chime in, a good friend has one, just put a factory reman 225 horse in it last year, spending a ton of money on it. I finished up his EDM900 and we went flying.
With just us two, (400ish pounds total), and full gas, it climbed a lot like my 150 horse 177 with two people and full fuel. It is definitely no rocket ship but I'd own one no problem for the right price.
He rarely flys anyone but himself, its a great personal taxi IMHO, like the 150 horse 177 is for me.
With just us two, (400ish pounds total), and full gas, it climbed a lot like my 150 horse 177 with two people and full fuel. It is definitely no rocket ship but I'd own one no problem for the right price.
He rarely flys anyone but himself, its a great personal taxi IMHO, like the 150 horse 177 is for me.
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CharlieD3
En-Route
Confused? What Debonair is earlier than the 33?
fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
I wonder if the confusion is because early 33s were referred to as part of the 35 series. For example, the 1966 C33A I flew was typed "35-C33A." A quick lookup on the FAA Registry website indicates the "35" moniker (along with the "33") hung around, although inconsistently applied, through the 33D model.
CharlieD3
En-Route
Okay. So a 35-33 is smaller than a 33? In what year did 33s stop being gender confused? And are the 33s(no prefix) bigger/wider than the 35-33?
I mean... The thread is about debonairs... The later 33s were called _33 Bonanzas.
The older 33s, which were 35-33s were debonairs... But that moniker was dropped and the later 33s were called Bonanzas.
Now, you've got the 36, a bigger normal tailed 33.... Right?
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Whatever you say. You've managed to confuse me completely
dmcummins
Pre-takeoff checklist
I just sold mine, put around 700 hrs over 8 years. It would do 150 knots at 11.5-12 gph, burning Mogas that saved me quite a bit over the years. Mine had a decent useful load and I could load 4 adults and head down to key west for lunch. I just couldn’t put much in the baggage area with 4 aboard.
I flew many cross country trips and loved it. Unfortunately my flying days are now probably over.
I flew many cross country trips and loved it. Unfortunately my flying days are now probably over.
CharlieD3
En-Route
I hope you're wrong about your flying days... I can only assume you can't do basic med, which means some sort of medical issue...
I'm just getting back into flying after a 20year hiatus... I got my 3rd class and will be basic med from here on out. I'd love to put 700 hours in over the next 8 years... That'd be heaven (or nearly so).
Thanks for the info and best wishes!
fly to the scene of the incident, or be recovered at the scene of the tragedy
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
All Debonairs are BE33s, as are all 4 seat, straight tail Bonanzas. I get called a Debonair on the radio by ATC all the time, hence pointing out a difference.
33 Bonanzas, and the later model Debonairs, are larger inside. As far as I know, all Debonairs were called 35-33s. The ICAO identifier for them is still BE33, just like for 4 seat, straight tail Bonanzas. I looked at an older Deb, with the smaller rear window, that a friend was looking at. He's about 6'2" and his head was already basically hitting the ceiling, while the rear legroom was like a 3 Series, compared to my 7 series.
That is very, very close to an Ovation though. An Ovation LOP will do 176 at 12.2. Now, you can do ROP at 15 and go 195, but still.
flight2000
Pre-takeoff checklist
1968 was the first year they badged the 33's as Bonanza's starting with the E33 and E33A models. I loved mine (1968 E33A w/IO520), flew it all over the US. Would still have it except I added a second engine... Still wish I had the stretched cabin to fit the folding bikes a little easier, but for my flying it's all I need. In the E33A, I usually ran it at 12-13 gph LOP which netted about 165 KTAS. Had some pretty good legs for cross-country flying. Never had any issues with Maintenance and it was comparable cost wise with my previous M20E.
With STC's, engine combinations are going to be all over the map. I know a few friends that have 550's bolted on the nose of their 33's and they certainly get up and go. I'd try and find one with an IO470, that seems to be the sweet spot.
Cheers,
Brian
Still wish I had the stretched cabin to fit the folding bikes a little easier, but for my flying it's all I need. In the E33A, I usually ran it at 12-13 gph LOP which netted about 165 KTAS. Had some pretty good legs for cross-country flying. Never had any issues with Maintenance and it was comparable cost wise with my previous M20E. With STC's, engine combinations are going to be all over the map. I know a few friends that have 550's bolted on the nose of their 33's and they certainly get up and go. I'd try and find one with an IO470, that seems to be the sweet spot.
Cheers,
Brian
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
Having owned a 470K powered one for 6 months now, I can say that I enjoy what it can do, but would prefer a 520 and maybe a 550. I don't use MoGas, so I don't get that savings. 150-155 at 13 low and 11.5-12 high is nice, but the 520/550 seems to be 20+ knots faster for the same fuel consumption. I've departed high density altitude and it does ok, but I'd definitely prefer more power.
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JEB
Pre-takeoff checklist
My A36 has a tired out IO520 (2330 hours and counting) and it'll do 172 true. The Beech 33s are faster than the A36s, but an A36 won't get run over. I'm having an IO550 built at Western Skyways because my A36 is so damn slow
I know. That's why I made the comparison.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
I just find it fairly surprising it does that kind of numbers.
The numbers are there in the book even with the stock 285 HP - 172 KTS at 6,000' on a standard day at 75% power and 162 at 8,000' at 5% power. And keep in mind that I was living in Denver so the "best" book numbers reflected sitting on the ground
I'm no expert but think what the conversion - which included a number of D'Shanon mods and the 3-bladed prop - may have done is make those number more realistic at a better fuel burn. I wish I still had a copy of the STC AFMS but my personal checklist notes indicate it did not contain new cruise performance numbers, only that performance is equal or better than book.