This Captain is a Jerk

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Captain said:
Ahem,

This is not a union thread. I'm sorry I let my contempt for scabs bleed through into the OP. If you take the word scab out of the OP it's a story of an inept pilot acting retarded and the genisus of the tale came from the Captains issue with my calling it an aborted takeoff instead of a discontinued takeoff roll. Doug appears to agree with the retard, I'm not sure.

I'm a believer that an OP ceases to 'own' a thread the second someone else replies to it. I can't force a topic shift. But I'd really like this to not turn into (or continue to be) the same old tired pro / anti union debate, and am simply asking for a topic shift.

Thanks, I'll let it go now.
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Ok, I'll give it a shot to get things back on track. What was the possible logic being used by the captain when he shut down the only two clearly working engines? Did you ask him? That just seems really illogical in every possible way.

....now back to the regularly scheduled pro/anti union discussion to be followed by symantically defining the difference between a jerk pilot and an inept pilot.:D
 
bbchien said:
uh..huh....
It does make it appear that the "captain" is...........well it was your title.
Best always to post when totally sober.
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Thanks. I haven't had a drop to drink.
 
Not really. What have I said on this thread? I told a story that clearly shows a pilot acting poorly. Only Doug supports his actions and only then for some crazy Boeing definition that doesn't even apply here.

I added my distaste for scabs...but who's for scabs? Even if you're anti-union I can't imagine you're pro scab. I feel pretty good about my position on this thread.
 
Captain said:
Not really. What have I said on this thread? I told a story that clearly shows a pilot acting poorly. Only Doug supports his actions and only then for some crazy Boeing definition that doesn't even apply here.

I added my distaste for scabs...but who's for scabs? Even if you're anti-union I can't imagine you're pro scab. I feel pretty good about my position on this thread.
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Your pedantic rambling diatribe that kept getting distracted with an unnecessary issue that reads in the voice of Foster Brooks. I'm not anti union, the subject has nothing to do with it, it's your uncohesive writing and communication style that makes you sound drunk.
 
"Captain" was talking to a controller, not some Boeing guy when he said the takeoff was aborted, so the Pilot/Controller Glossary would be very relevant.
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Wrong again.

When "captain" stated "So, let's set this up. We had an issue at ZERO knots yet we now are doing a fricking high speed abort. Great job Captain." he wasn't speaking to a controller. He was speaking to the reader here, and doing so in a thread designed and intended to belittle someone, as is often the case.

Boeing does not refer to a rejected takeoff as a "fricking high speed abort," and someone with experience and training in the B727 would know that. "Captain" did not, nor would most of the readers here. "Captain" relies upon that with many of his postings. On this particular occasion, he was revealed. Rather than dispute that, he simply switched tracks by justifying himself as "compelling."

Apparently it's okay to invent himself, his character, and his experiences, because he thinks they're "compelling."

For someone who bills himself as a "captain," he sounds very much like a 14 year old typing on his first laptop, trying to pass himself off as a "captain." It's especially interesting that he belittles the captain in this case, yet often prattles on in disparaging terms about his own alleged first officers. One can only wonder what they might have to say about him.
 
DouglasBader said:
Wrong again.

When "captain" stated "So, let's set this up. We had an issue at ZERO knots yet we now are doing a fricking high speed abort. Great job Captain." he wasn't speaking to a controller. He was speaking to the reader here, and doing so in a thread designed and intended to belittle someone, as is often the case.
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Nope, he was speaking to the controller, not the reader when the Captain scolded "Captain". This is what he posted.

Captain said:
I tell tower we're aborting our takeoff and Captain scab scolds me for not saying 'discontinue our takeoff roll'. Whatever. I said it on the 'other thread' and it's true. It's Haiti. You could roll a joint, go to the tower and smoke it and then takeoff without a clearance and what would happen? Nothing is the correct answer.
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Nope, he was speaking to the controller, not the reader when the Captain scolded "Captain".
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It was not that statement to which I referred, nor which I quoted. I quoted him speaking to the reader. In any case, he revealed himself in his misunderstanding of the terminology; it's terminology he would have known, had he been trained and qualified in the B727.
 
Which is, therefore, irrelevant.

The "captain" entered here to tell us about his "jerk" captain, and went on at length about his systems knowledge in the B727, then told us about a "fricking high speed abort," thus using terminology which betrayed him.

What ATC has to say about it, an unofficial study guide, a glossary, or the daily lunch special prescribes on the topic is irrelevant. "Captain" would have known better, has he the experience he claimed, and he made that statement to the reader, not to ATC.
 
DouglasBader said:
Which is, therefore, irrelevant.

The "captain" entered here to tell us about his "jerk" captain, and went on at length about his systems knowledge in the B727, then told us about a "fricking high speed abort," thus using terminology which betrayed him.

What ATC has to say about it, an unofficial study guide, a glossary, or the daily lunch special prescribes on the topic is irrelevant. "Captain" would have known better, has he the experience he claimed, and he made that statement to the reader, not to ATC.
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There are at least a couple people on this site who know "Captain". But in any case, we don't make people show up with notarized resumes to post here. That's probably a good thing for some...
 
Why does it matter?
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It matters a lot, because the purpose of the thread, to lampoon a senior crew member with the tale turns out to be untrue, when the person telling it clearly isn't qualified or doesn't know his material.

Having been called on that several times, the original poster didn't bother to defend the point, but admitted it, justifying it as okay, as he believes it's "compelling."

Posting with the sole intent of negative condemnation of a senior crew member isn't beneficial, and his frequent references to "scabs" didn't help his case, either.

As for unions in aviation, those who don't see their necessity don't work in environments where they are necessary. Unions are about far more than pay raises. The pay is a small part of what's encompassed in a contract, and the contract is about the protection of the employees. Unions are very necessary, as company abuses are often severe and extreme, from pushing duty and rest limits to many other forms of abuses that are addressed through the contracting process in the Railway Labor Act.
 
DouglasBader said:
It matters a lot, because the purpose of the thread, to lampoon a senior crew member with the tale turns out to be untrue, when the person telling it clearly isn't qualified or doesn't know his material.

Having been called on that several times, the original poster didn't bother to defend the point, but admitted it, justifying it as okay, as he believes it's "compelling."

Posting with the sole intent of negative condemnation of a senior crew member isn't beneficial, and his frequent references to "scabs" didn't help his case, either.

<snip>
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You doubt my story is true? Really? I stand behind each and every word of it and the fact that you condem the whole thing because some perceived slight on how Boeing labels aborts and engine starts is petty beyond petty.

You make it clear to all that you have some sort of axe to grind. I get it, you don't like me. Well get this...I don't care. The story is true down to every letter...including his 'scab' status.

Did I not satisfactorily describe the hydraulics systems? I notice you glossed right over that and focused on...Boeing terminology? Laughable. I can't believe I'm even responding to this silliness. Or is it claptrap?
 
Henning said:
You asked, not that I hold anything against you for it, I like you personally. If people don't tell you the truth it's hard to realize it.
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I like you too.
 
flightmedic said:
We can differ in opinion and still enjoy each others posts, can't we?
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You bet.........

I enjoy hearing your side of medical flight experiences. My concern is for all the goverment workers who receive great pay, outstanding bennies and configure their retirement based on a very generous pension and not set aside enough funds in case the "Golden Egg Laying Goose" craters....
Just ask the millions of people over in Greece who didn't plan on the obvious, and are now destined to work at 7-11 in their senior years to put food on the table.

Common sense says you cannot have a whole country working 10 months, take 2 months each year of paid vacation, retire at 50 years old with full medical coverage and expect that concept to be sustainable..:idea::no::nonod:
 
N801BH said:
You bet.........

I enjoy hearing your side of medical flight experiences. My concern is for all the goverment workers who receive great pay, outstanding bennies and configure their retirement based on a very generous pension and not set aside enough funds in case the "Golden Egg Laying Goose" craters....
Just ask the millions of people over in Greece who didn't plan on the obvious, and are now destined to work at 7-11 in their senior years to put food on the table.

Common sense says you cannot have a whole country working 10 months, take 2 months each year of paid vacation, retire at 50 years old with full medical coverage and expect that concept to be sustainable..:idea::no::nonod:
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Of course you can, you just have to develope the economic model that provides it and not steal from it. The problem isn't the plans or programs, the problem is corrupting the system down the line, same as Social Security.

Germany has much the same model with great benefits that works fine.
 
DouglasBader said:
It matters a lot, because the purpose of the thread, to lampoon a senior crew member with the tale turns out to be untrue, when the person telling it clearly isn't qualified or doesn't know his material.

Having been called on that several times, the original poster didn't bother to defend the point, but admitted it, justifying it as okay, as he believes it's "compelling."

Posting with the sole intent of negative condemnation of a senior crew member isn't beneficial, and his frequent references to "scabs" didn't help his case, either.

As for unions in aviation, those who don't see their necessity don't work in environments where they are necessary. Unions are about far more than pay raises. The pay is a small part of what's encompassed in a contract, and the contract is about the protection of the employees. Unions are very necessary, as company abuses are often severe and extreme, from pushing duty and rest limits to many other forms of abuses that are addressed through the contracting process in the Railway Labor Act.
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So tell us, why did you shut down the two undamaged engines while leaving the damaged engine in operation?

Also tell us why you crossed the picket line...
 
bbchien said:
This is as bad as the red board....
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Maybe. Doug thinks my whole story is made up because of some silly Boeing terminology thing. He's breaking down my OP to dissect the context of who I was 'speaking to...the reader or tower' and then determined the whole thing is bunk.

You suggested I'm drunk.


Not sure how the red board goes but this is the way PoA rolls. I'm just conveying something that happened to me and I was requested by another member to do it. It was curtesy on my part to start a new thread rather than hijack that one.
 
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The scab remarks as used were just a literary device. A tool to add spice to the story. Whether Boing mandates using reject or abort in that instance was nice to know, and the history of unions was also an unexpected benefit, but ... come on. It was a personal story, told in an entertaining manner, that illustrated the reasons why that Captain was a jerk. Maybe another person would have used different words, or would not have made use of the same hyperbole, but ... did we really need all this?

If we were all sitting around an airport cafe drinking coffee and eating pie, would this really have degenerated to a slug fest over whether it was appropriate to say "abort" versus "reject" to the tower? Or whether so many uses of "scab" in the telling of the story was offensive or appropriate? Probably not. The point about terminology would have been made, as would the various views of picket line crossers, and we would have gone on to the next "there I was" story. But this is the internet, and common notions of what is and isn't appropriate are easier to ignore here.

The story was posted in response to a request by me in another thread. I gained some insight by reading it, and enjoyed the telling of it. I also learned a thing or two in the brawl that ensued as the thread unfolded, but I could have easily learned those things with one post rather than twenty. I'm not a pilot yet, and I can't tell you how grateful I am to have found a community of (sometimes dysfunctional) pilots of varying levels of experience and skill to learn from. Thanks for the story. I enjoyed it.
 
I stand behind each and every word of it and the fact that you condem the whole thing because some perceived slight on how Boeing labels aborts and engine starts is petty beyond petty.
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As the story goes, the terminology is superfluous. As far as you go, were you versed in and piloting a Boeing product, you'd have known the difference and used different terminology.

If anyone else had been telling the story, with a different aircraft, it might be different. It might be a little like someone relaying their experience with unmanned platforms, then calling them "drones." It would immediately expose them. The media might use the term, others who don't have experience with them might use the term, but not someone who is familiar with or has a background with those platforms. Same for the Boeing. Many call them aborted takeoffs, and "abort" is a common word for rejecting a takeoff...just not to those operating Boeing equipment.

Most anyone else could have said it here without any issue, but after you claimed the experience (particularly integral to your condemnation of your superior at work), not you.

Were you there? Possibly...sounds like a very poor 727 operator in southern Florida that's well known to all; same place that offered five gallon bucks for the lav. If you were there, however, you don't have the experience or the wherewithal to be criticizing the captain, given your extremely limited background, which ironically enough, was revealed in your own description of the events. You're unhappy about this, but it was your choice to post.
 
DouglasBader said:
If anyone else had been telling the story, with a different aircraft, it might be different. It might be a little like someone relaying their experience with unmanned platforms, then calling them "drones." It would immediately expose them. The media might use the term, others who don't have experience with them might use the term, but not someone who is familiar with or has a background with those platforms. Same for the Boeing. Many call them aborted takeoffs, and "abort" is a common word for rejecting a takeoff...just not to those operating Boeing equipment.
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Maybe some pilots just aren't as fussy as you about using the exact right terminology. :dunno:

Pilots know that we are issued "certificates" instead of "licenses." Yet, it is VERY common for pilots in informal conversation to use terms like license, PPL, CPL, etc. Would you feel justified in concluding that they aren't really pilots because of that?
 
I am "inexperienced" in Boeing aircraft. I am, however, typed in the 727 with an SIC limitation. Flew the thing for about 8 months only.

I attended the worst initial training you ever did see. We were not issued books. All we got was a cd with the wrong model 727 to print out at our expense if we so chose to do. The manual we got was for the 727-100 even though every plane on property was a 727-200. The training was mostly lifted from Delta. Still had the logos and such on it. They explained exemption 3585 was how we dispatched when weather was below landing minimums with a takeoff alternate.

Anyone who's ever delt with exemption 3585 knows it has NOTHING to do with takeoff alternates. This was typical of our training. I did my best with what I had and started my job search in initial training.

But that doesn't make any of what happened in Haiti correct or compitent procedure. In fact, it supports what happened in Haiti. Many of the Captians there were scab pilots and their abilities were on par with the crap training I witnessed.

Shutting down the two good engines and taxiing in on the one bad one? Having to do a high speed abort when the issue presented itself at zero knots?

I have no idea what Boeing calls an aborted takeoff nor do I care. It doesn't matter and has been a peculiar sideshow for one angry poster here.

Rigged4Flight, I'm glad you liked the tale. It was 'interesting' for me too. In the end my advise to all is to stay far far away from cargo operators based in MIA.
 
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I disagree. This thread has been fine with the single exception of Dougs character attacks on me. Take that away and where's the problem?
 
wsuffa said:
Bruce is right.

Sigh.

IBTL.
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I'm as guilty as anyone else. I've lived in the B.O.C, too. :)

I lived through the Caterpillar Strike of 93-94 which broke the UAW. It was broken by the parents of the then line employees who were called back to work by the company. The seniors viewed the company as the source that educated their kids, paid the mortgage, etc and for near $100K per year they went back.

To this day, on Sundays, parents sit on the right side of the pews, the active workers and their kids, sit on the left. It's awful. There is no point in labelling anyone a scab no matter how you actually feel. What is, is.

So feelings run hot- but only detracts from the actual thread.
 
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Having to do a high speed abort when the issue presented itself at zero knots?
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A high speed reject, you mean?

This thread has been fine with the single exception of Dougs character attacks on me. Take that away and where's the problem?
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Your character was never brought up, or were any attacks made on you, despite your neurotic perception to the contrary. Take that away, however, and we're left with the premise of your thread, which is a character attack on your "jerk" "scab" captain, authored by YOU. That's the problem.

Perhaps your captain knew the difference between a rejected takeoff and an aborted start, but then he wasn't limited to an SIC type rating, was he?

I have no idea what Boeing calls an aborted takeoff nor do I care.
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Clearly.
 
Again, the phraseology does not matter.

Yes, I attacked the Captain...but that's the point of the thread. Why you insist the phraseology matters at all I know not. It proves nothing Others have pointed this out to you too.

Weird really.


As I refuse to be told events in my life are lies I guess I am starting to agree...IBTL.
 
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Yes, I attacked the Captain...but that's the point of the thread.
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It is, isn't it?

You started the thread for no other purpose than to attack someone, calling them a "scab" and a "jerk." That's the point of the thread. A platform for you to attack and belittle someone.

Of course, in so doing you revealed your own lack of understanding about the very subject you wrote, and that turned out to be more interesting than any of the garbage you had to spew.

That you found yourself "compelling" was laughable, but not unexpected.
 
If I can divert the thread from the personality issues for a moment and ask a technical question so I can get a perspective on this, what percentage of your computed Vr was 100kts? ( if you recall) How much runway was remaining? I've never been in the front row of a 727, but IMHO as a relatively low time guy compared to a lot of career transport types, initiating a take-off with that kind of vibration was just plain dumb.
 
DouglasBader said:
It is, isn't it?

You started the thread for no other purpose than to attack someone, calling them a "scab" and a "jerk." That's the point of the thread. A platform for you to attack and belittle someone.

Of course, in so doing you revealed your own lack of understanding about the very subject you wrote, and that turned out to be more interesting than any of the garbage you had to spew.

That you found yourself "compelling" was laughable, but not unexpected.
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No Doug, another member asked to hear the story. My understanding of the story is just fine. I just put zero weight one your stupid abort/reject argument.

Tell you what, how about you stop reading my posts. You have successfully destroyed this thread. Congrats, you win.

I don't know if my requesting a lock caries any weight but at this time I'd like to ask the mods to lock it.
 
Captain said:
...T ell you what, how about you stop reading my posts. You have successfully destroyed this thread. Congrats, you win.
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I thought it was destroyed well before I reached the 11th reference to "scab" in the first post.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
I thought it was destroyed well before I reached the 11th reference to "scab" in the first post.
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Wow, there really are eleven! No wonder we got to talking about unions!
 
This thread has run its course.

Pending further Management Council review, this thread is closed.
 
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