Thinking about Turboing my Harley

[Ted]

This is the latest on the list of "Ted has too much brain power on his hands".

The scenario: Yes, my Harley is slow. It's a Harley, it will never be fast. It's a 2009 FLHTCUi (also known as Electra Glide Ultra Classic) with a 96" V-twin. It has some slip-on pipes (stock was way too quiet, although I still have the stock pipes), the catalytic converter has been removed, and the air filter has been upgraded, plus it has a piggyback tuner that I can program to adjust for modest horsepower changes.

It's an 850 lb bike. If I cared about it being fast I would've bought something else, but I would like it to be a bit faster than it is. So since I'm now looking at things to weld (and figuring out a project for after the Cobra)...

China is producing some reasonable quality cheap turbos. A lot of people are buying these $100 turbos (new) and have had good results with them so long as you're only looking for moderate gains and reliability. No, they're not as good as the real things, but they're ok. For $90 I can buy a brand new turbo that's designed for a VW 1.8T. Well, 96" = 1.6L and those VW 1.8T engines have very little lag from the factory, plus I'd only be looking for about 4-6 PSI of boost, so that'd probably work out reasonably well.

Making a turbo setup from scratch of course has its challenges, but I've got the equipment so it would be a fun project since I've never done that before. So a lot of it would be the purpose of doing the project for the fun of doing it.

Obviously reliability would go down, that's fine. I'm also thinking about other options that I could do that would be cheap overall. I can't find any sort of data on how much a stock 96" engine can take power wise before it just explodes. The big bore kits seem to be more invasive in terms of having to bore out the case. Cams could be another option that would be simple, although I've not seen much for data on what those would do.

So, suggestions on power adders for the Harley? I know Steingar will chime in with "Sell the Harley and buy a real motorcycle."

 

[gkainz]

google has many pages of hits on DIY Harley turbo ... have fun!!!!

 

[Brad Smith]

Steingar almost had it right, sell the motorcycle and buy a 2020 Triumph Rocket. Seriously, the heat created by making more power with a turbo on a bike that is already at its upper limit (heat wise) will make it an exciting ride for a very short time. I have a 2014 Road King 103 that has been dead reliable for over 40,000 miles. I look at it as the bike is what it is. Making an 800# touring bike into a hotrod by adding a turbo is fun to dream about, but not without inherent issues - money, heat, space and reliability being the main culprits.
A well tuned nitrous system would make more sense if your only planning a few short bursts at a time. Way less headaches if you work with an expert that understands NOS installations. If you overdo the power input the Harley (like any other machine) will grenade itself. Good luck if you decide to turbo your bike.

 

[kgruber]

Just buy (now discontinued) a Yamaha Stratoliner. Twice the engine, 1900cc, and 1/10th the maintenance.

The best part is you'll be able to get rid of the ridiculous Harley costume you are most likely wearing

 

[DaleB]

I know a guy locally who had put a turbo on his bagger. It was long enough ago -- maybe '06, '07-ish -- that it probably wasn't a Chinese kit. Based solely on that conversation, I'd just ask... do you want to ride it, or screw with it constantly?

 

[jsstevens]

Let me just interject that this is @Ted DuPuis we're talking to. 1) There is no such thing as enough power, 2) the challenge IS the point.

(I have no useful input. I've never tried to turbo charge a Harley.)

 

[Ted]

Just buy (now discontinued) a Yamaha Stratoliner. Twice the engine, 1900cc, and 1/10th the maintenance.

The best part is you'll be able to get rid of the ridiculous Harley costume you are most likely wearing

I really liked the Stratoliner when it came out, and test rode a brand new one. Like other Yamahas I've ridden, I found the suspension to be quite bad. So no, not going that route.

I know a guy locally who had put a turbo on his bagger. It was long enough ago -- maybe '06, '07-ish -- that it probably wasn't a Chinese kit. Based solely on that conversation, I'd just ask... do you want to ride it, or screw with it constantly?

As @jsstevens pointed out, I'm Ted. The whole point is screwing with it constantly. I haven't ridden the thing in two years.

 

[DaleB]

As @jsstevens pointed out, I'm Ted. The whole point is screwing with it constantly. I haven't ridden the thing in two years.

Then you'll adore the turbo. Hang two of them on it.

And for someone riding a bike designed to closely mimic a Harley to talk about "costumes" is hilarious.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Finish the Cobra first, then worry about finding ways to make an unreliable motorcycle more unreliable.

 

[Brad Z]

I keeping thinking these “thinking about a...” threads are fake, but then I see Ted started it and then I know he’s going to do it anyway, Lol.

Good luck with the turbo Harley, and make sure you bring supplemental O2 for operations above 12,500.

 

[timwinters]

turbo a Harley? why? so your hands can go numb from the vibration twice as fast?

 

[charheep]

www.bosshoss.com might be better for you...


Or you can supercharge the HD- From Prochargers site

Engine Size/ Model N/A HP N/A TQ ProCharged HP ProCharged TQ Boost TQ Gain HP Gain
96” FLHRC 67 72 122 118 11 46 55
95” FLHTCUI 90 104 155 139 10 35 65
96” FLHX 87 98 149 129 9 31 62
103” FLHTCUSE 92 105 153 138 10 33 61
110” FLTR 88 99 149 130 10 31 61
120” FLHX 118 122 201 167 13 45 83
120R FLHTCUI 128 135 192 179 8 44 64

 

[Ted]

I keeping thinking these “thinking about a...” threads are fake, but then I see Ted started it and then I know he’s going to do it anyway, Lol.

Good luck with the turbo Harley, and make sure you bring supplemental O2 for operations above 12,500.

To be fair, I haven't done 100% of my "thinking about" threads. Maybe only 90%.

turbo a Harley? why? so your hands can go numb from the vibration twice as fast?

Because I want to take something unreliable and make it even more unreliable.

www.bosshoss.com might be better for you...


Or you can supercharge the HD- From Prochargers site

Engine Size/ Model N/A HP N/A TQ ProCharged HP ProCharged TQ Boost TQ Gain HP Gain
96” FLHRC 67 72 122 118 11 46 55
95” FLHTCUI 90 104 155 139 10 35 65
96” FLHX 87 98 149 129 9 31 62
103” FLHTCUSE 92 105 153 138 10 33 61
110” FLTR 88 99 149 130 10 31 61
120” FLHX 118 122 201 167 13 45 83
120R FLHTCUI 128 135 192 179 8 44 64

So I think one of the points I may have left out is that a big purpose of this would be to keep the cost of whatever I do low. Despite popular belief, Ted's bank account is not unlimited. Procharger would not be cheap, and the big bore kits also tend to not be cheap.

Boss Hoss is definitely not cheap, and honestly I've never thought those made any sense. Jay Leno's Boss Hoss bar stool is funny, but the motorcycles are just stupidly heavy, have an automatic transmission (remember that's a big negative for me) and it's just a case of the wrong engine for the application.

To be clear, I like my motorcycle. I don't ride it much, but that has more to do with the current realities of life (having to drive kids around a lot, my wife and I not being able to hop on the bikes to just go riding for fun much) than the motorcycle itself. Since I don't ride it much, it's really more about the fun of the project than anything, while also making it more what I want. A bit more power would be nice.

One interesting thing with those Procharger numbers is that they advertise 11 psi boost. The stock wastegate on those VW 1.8T turbos is 12, so about the same. I had been figuring less boost but that's interesting.

 

[bnt83]

I had an 2005 FLHTC for three years, had less than 40k miles on it. Was kinda fun the first year then a big disappointment thereafter.

"dumb crap moments" was driving it back from Omaha to Lincoln via I80 on blazing hot day when the aft cylinder's header pipe cracked and blew exhaust on my thigh for 20 miles. The noise was bad and the heat was worse.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

If your tuner has user adjustable fueling, great. If not and the ECU reads off of a wide-band O2, and the tuner has a “WFO” mode, you may be OK.

Then the next matter is ignition timing. You should be able to fully control that if you want any semblance of engine life and performance.

Does the engine come with a knock sensor?

If I were doing this, I’d put thermocouples in the exhaust and tune using that for safety (longevity)...just duct tape a fluke meter to the gas tank for test & tune, lol.

 

[Ted]

If your tuner has user adjustable fueling, great. If not and the ECU reads off of a wide-band O2, and the tuner has a “WFO” mode, you may be OK.

Then the next matter is ignition timing. You should be able to fully control that if you want any semblance of engine life and performance.

Does the engine come with a knock sensor?

If I were doing this, I’d put thermocouples in the exhaust and tune using that for safety (longevity)...just duct tape a fluke meter to the gas tank for test & tune, lol.

Remember I used to tune air-cooled engines for a living, so I'm not too worried about that aspect of it. The tuner I have does allow user-programmable adjustments. Whether it would be good enough as-is or if I'd have to try to do MegaSquirt or something I don't know, haven't looked into that but I'm not scared of it.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure of how the stock ECU is mapped. Mine is one of the throttle-by-wire bikes which I am not a fan of (that feature specifically). It doesn't tune off of the O2 sensor automatically, but it does have an O2 sensor. So I could (and would) add a gauge for that as well as boost.

I had an 2005 FLHTC for three years, had less than 40k miles on it. Was kinda fun the first year then a big disappointment thereafter.

"dumb crap moments" was driving it back from Omaha to Lincoln via I80 on blazing hot day when the aft cylinder's header pipe cracked and blew exhaust on my thigh for 20 miles. The noise was bad and the heat was worse.

Honestly I like the bike itself just fine. It would simply be nice to 1) make it less reliable 2) add a little more power for the onramps 3) make it a bit more unique... because that's what I do.

 

[jsstevens]

I keeping thinking these “thinking about a...” threads are fake, but then I see Ted started it and then I know he’s going to do it anyway, Lol.

Good luck with the turbo Harley, and make sure you bring supplemental O2 for operations above 12,500.

Two words: bleed air.

 

[DaleB]

turbo a Harley? why? so your hands can go numb from the vibration twice as fast?

Have you ever actually ridden one? Mine was smooth as silk... once off idle. At a stop light it looked like you were sitting on a paint shaker, but on the highway it was a joy.

Ours was an '03 FLHTCUI, which was the 88 inch motor. Bought it used in '05 with about 8K miles on it. A year later I put a big bore kit on it, which bumped the displacement to 95". Or was it 96? Stroking did one, big bore did the other. Anyway, that and a set of Andrews cams really woke that thing up after the dyno tune. We put another 25K miles on it, most of it 2-up, with many thousands of miles towing a cargo trailer full of "stuff". During that time we had two mechanical issues with the bike, neither of which ever left us stranded. They were annoyances that we eventually succeeded in troubleshooting and fixing. There are a lot of Harley haters out there, but our experience was pretty good.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

Detonation is your friend! Or soon will be.

 

[timwinters]

Have you ever actually ridden one?

yep, I've owned three over the years. The first one was a 1957 panhead. The last one was a 2005 ultra glide.

The last motorcycle I owned was a victory cross-country tour and it was in every way imaginable far superior to any Harley I've ever owned.

But everybody likes different things, I understand that.

what I've always found amazing about Harleys is that 69% of them are still on the road. The other 31% actually made it home and into the garage.

as an aside, riding a motorcycle doesn't interest me at all any longer. It's very mundane as compared to flying...especially when the risk factor is about the same and when I am flying I'm the only one trying to kill me on the typical day.

 

[jrcox19]

Nitrous is always the answer. And you can keep it even after you move on and add a turbo

 

[ktup-flyer]

Cams.

 

[Ted]

Nitrous is always the answer. And you can keep it even after you move on and add a turbo

I've never had nitrous on a vehicle, but I've also inherely never liked it. Don't like something that can run out.

 

[Ted]

Detonation is your friend! Or soon will be.

I've spent many hours detonating.

yep, I've owned three over the years. The first one was a 1957 panhead. The last one was a 2005 ultra glide.

The last motorcycle I owned was a victory cross-country tour and it was in every way imaginable far superior to any Harley I've ever owned.

But everybody likes different things, I understand that.

Funny thing... when I first started riding motorcycles my mentor was a Jap bike fan (very anti-Harley). So I wasn't interested. While I'll agree that the Harleys are technically inferior to every other motorcycle I own, I like the experience.

as an aside, riding a motorcycle doesn't interest me at all any longer. It's very mundane as compared to flying...especially when the risk factor is about the same and when I am flying I'm the only one trying to kill me on the typical day.

I've gone back and forth on my desire to ride over the past 15 years. I've always come back to it, and owned... I guess around 5-10 motorcycles total. Flying hasn't impacted my desire to ride at all, it's another form of motorized enjoyment. One day, probably when the kids leave the house, Laurie and I will finally get to do the motorcycle trips we wanted to do before they were born.

 

[DaleB]

Funny thing... when I first started riding motorcycles my mentor was a Jap bike fan (very anti-Harley). So I wasn't interested. While I'll agree that the Harleys are technically inferior to every other motorcycle I own, I like the experience.

This. My first two bikes were a Honda and a Kawasaki. Never thought much of Harleys until we went looking for something to tour with. Our friends had Gold Wings, but we ended up with the Ultra. And we loved it. Won't go 160? That's OK, I chicken out at 110 anyway. Won't run a 9 second quarter mile? That's OK, we're not drag racing. We got ten-plus years of very enjoyable touring on that bike, and there's really nothing I wish I'd done differently. And no one ever, not once, came up and said, "Wow, what a beautiful bike. Is that a Yamaha?"

The bike is gone, we don't miss riding... much.

 

[jrcox19]

I've never had nitrous on a vehicle, but I've also inherely never liked it. Don't like something that can run out.

Can't argue with that.. I went back and forth on whether I should use nitrous on my Mustang. Much happier now that I'm back in a car with turbo(s)

 

[SoonerAviator]

This. My first two bikes were a Honda and a Kawasaki. Never thought much of Harleys until we went looking for something to tour with. Our friends had Gold Wings, but we ended up with the Ultra. And we loved it. Won't go 160? That's OK, I chicken out at 110 anyway. Won't run a 9 second quarter mile? That's OK, we're not drag racing. We got ten-plus years of very enjoyable touring on that bike, and there's really nothing I wish I'd done differently. And no one ever, not once, came up and said, "Wow, what a beautiful bike. Is that a Yamaha?"

The bike is gone, we don't miss riding... much.

Plenty of beautiful Stratoliners and Vmax bikes, lets not pretend that because it’s a metric-bike that it has no soul or great looks.

 

[DaleB]

Plenty of beautiful Stratoliners and Vmax bikes, lets not pretend that because it’s a metric-bike that it has no soul or great looks.

I’m not one of the metric bike haters either. But let’s nit try to pretend that numerous other manufacturers haven’t gone to great lengths to emulate the very thing their riders so frequently disparage. I stand by my earlier statement. Not once did I ever hear, and it’s highly unlikely any Harley rider will hear, “Wow, beautiful bike, is that a Yamaha?”

 

[Bell206]

So, suggestions on power adders for the Harley?

Turbo? Sheesh. You're an engine guy, make it happen and keep it aviation related. If Jesse can do it.....

 

[SoonerAviator]

I’m not one of the metric bike haters either. But let’s nit try to pretend that numerous other manufacturers haven’t gone to great lengths to emulate the very thing their riders so frequently disparage. I stand by my earlier statement. Not once did I ever hear, and it’s highly unlikely any Harley rider will hear, “Wow, beautiful bike, is that a Yamaha?”

Emulating the laid back cruiser without the lackluster performance, lol. I'm not "hating" on H-D, but the average person couldn't hardly name another bike manufacturer to begin with, so everything is a "Harley" to them. It's the same with aircraft, everything is a Cessna.

 

[Ted]

Plenty of beautiful Stratoliners and Vmax bikes, lets not pretend that because it’s a metric-bike that it has no soul or great looks.

Yamaha makes wonderful engines. I didn't like the Stratoliner as a bike but I did love the engine, and it made a great sound. I owned a VMax - again, fantastic engine, loved it, would love to put it in something else. Suspension and brakes on VMax were awful. It looked great, engine sounded and performed great, that was about it. However I would buy another one, again for the engine.

Turbo? Sheesh. You're an engine guy, make it happen and keep it aviation related. If Jesse can do it.....

That wouldn't really do the intended job in this case.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Yamaha makes wonderful engines. I didn't like the Stratoliner as a bike but I did love the engine, and it made a great sound. I owned a VMax - again, fantastic engine, loved it, would love to put it in something else. Suspension and brakes on VMax were awful. It looked great, engine sounded and performed great, that was about it. However I would buy another one, again for the engine.



That wouldn't really do the intended job in this case.

Yeah, would love to have the VMax engine in something a bit more relaxed with better turn-in/brakes. I haven't ridden the newest ones, but the model I rode was an '08 model I believe. I just felt that it was a lot of work to get it to hold in a turn. I never felt the brakes under-perform necessarily (because it was a friend's bike and I wasn't pushing it), but it didn't inspire confidence that I had "more than enough" at my disposal. Gas tank was a bit low on the capacity on the VMax, too.

I want the VMax engine in something more like the Ducati XDiavel which it has the forward controls and a bit more relaxed riding position.

 

[smv]

No thanks... The silky smooth feel of six in-line cylinders producing 160hp simply cannot be beat. I can choose Motocop White or Midnight Blue, depending on my mood.

 

[Ted]

Yeah, would love to have the VMax engine in something a bit more relaxed with better turn-in/brakes. I haven't ridden the newest ones, but the model I rode was an '08 model I believe. I just felt that it was a lot of work to get it to hold in a turn. I never felt the brakes under-perform necessarily (because it was a friend's bike and I wasn't pushing it), but it didn't inspire confidence that I had "more than enough" at my disposal. Gas tank was a bit low on the capacity on the VMax, too.

I want the VMax engine in something more like the Ducati XDiavel which it has the forward controls and a bit more relaxed riding position.

I felt that Yamaha should've put the VMax engine in the FJR1300 and it would've made a really incredible bike. That straight 4-cylinder was a good engine but sounded too much like a sewing machine.

 

[ETres]

I'm having my 75 mph Vespa GTV 300 scooter converted into a 90+ mph machine with a full Malossi performance kit upgrade, so enjoy your turbo HD. It's only money.

 

[Daleandee]

what I've always found amazing about Harleys is that 69% of them are still on the road. The other 31% actually made it home and into the garage.

I see what you did there ...

as an aside, riding a motorcycle doesn't interest me at all any longer. It's very mundane as compared to flying...especially when the risk factor is about the same and when I am flying I'm the only one trying to kill me on the typical day.

After being hit from behind on the interstate in 2011 I thought I was done with riding. But a couple of years ago I bought a cheap metric cruiser. Don't ride it a lot but I do enjoy some back roads now and again. Was pretty good lately with most folks staying home. But our governor finally put a "home or work" rule in place today. Of course we can still go to visit family and other essential things like walking for exercise. That's good because my brother lives close to the airport and I can walk over and pull my plane out for exercise.

Dale

 

[Craig]

Ted, you just need to build yourself a Gunbus 410.....

 

[Wingsofglass]

What will you be using for the tuning?

 

[Ted]

What will you be using for the tuning?

Uncertain, but probably just the tuner I have on it already.

I've also been thinking some about whether I want to turbo the Harley (I'm inherently not a fan of turbos) vs. just doing high compression pistons and a pair of cams, which would be another feasible option. More research...

 

[charheep]

I had 4 bikes in my riding life. kawasaki crap bike, Suzuki Bandit 1200, HD Fat Boy and HD Road King. I always felt that the HD was a family and had more soul. Just my experience with it. I know Goldwing drivers that would never switch, so its not just a HD thing.

Back to Ted- I like his plan. Cheap turbo, throw it on and see what happens. Kinda like Roadkill. One episode they trailered a gas powered turbo to feed the tow car.
Make some videos of what you did and I would watch that.