Thinking About (ok bought) F-350 with PowerStroke 6.0L - Questions

Agreed there's a reason they're cheaper, although part of that reason is also volume. When I do a search on CraigsList for "Ford diesel" "Dodge diesel" and "Chevy diesel", the number of hits for Ford diesel is literally Dodge + Chevy combined. They sell more to start and there are more available. Fewer available means higher prices.

This 6.0 has a lot of the good stuff done already which was part of the attraction of this truck. EGR delete, CAT delete, coolant filter (common addition on 6.0s), and of course it's pre-DPF. We'll just see what the dealer can do for getting it working the way it should.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Maybe... but haven't been following the thread... can you send me the VIN?
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If the shop says I need a new engine I will. That may be the smarter way to go depending on what happens.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
the number of hits for Ford diesel is literally Dodge + Chevy combined
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This extends into my parts supplier world too.... I rarely get calls for the GM 6.6L Diesel. Only occasional calls for the Cummins (mostly because they are really designed and built for long term use and owners take care of them). The F250/F350 diesels have the most request activity, and I attribute that to the fleet being larger.
 
The Ford and Dodge diesels are also much cheaper new. Same goes with their half ton trucks. I've seen Fords advertised for anywhere between 3-5k cheaper than the similarly equipped GM.
 
Grum.Man said:
The Ford and Dodge diesels are also much cheaper new. Same goes with their half ton trucks. I've seen Fords advertised for anywhere between 3-5k cheaper than the similarly equipped GM.
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Now you know why GM claims "higher resale value" when they are sold for $3K more to start with. :)
 
Grum.Man said:
The Ford and Dodge diesels are also much cheaper new. Same goes with their half ton trucks. I've seen Fords advertised for anywhere between 3-5k cheaper than the similarly equipped GM.
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Yep. I was going on the Ford and Dodge websites to price out new trucks and noticed that as well.
 
Grum.Man said:
The Ford and Dodge diesels are also much cheaper new. Same goes with their half ton trucks. I've seen Fords advertised for anywhere between 3-5k cheaper than the similarly equipped GM.
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Keep in mind that we're at the end of the model year... so it's time to start moving the 2017 inventory and make room for the 2018's
 
AggieMike88 said:
Keep in mind that we're at the end of the model year... so it's time to start moving the 2017 inventory and make room for the 2018's
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Interesting thing looking at the local Ford dealer's inventory, they only stock Super Duties of around $70k MSRP.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Interesting thing looking at the local Ford dealer's inventory, they only stock Super Duties of around $70k MSRP.
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Yup! Like I said, if you want a basic work truck you're going to have to order one. All the stuff on the local lots is well optioned up.
 
My local dealers have a ton of base model diesels. You can get an F350 crew cab long bed 4x4 power windows and locks for about $44,000.00 here. I've seen manual window F250 with diesels 4x4 for as low as 41,000.
 
Yup, just have to find a dealer who has some fleet vehicles, or caters to the farmers/ranchers not looking for the Cowboy Cadillac.
 
I think the trick would be searching for a dealer that had a "close enough" truck. The local ones here are in the high dollar districts so... you can imagine what they stock.

Pricing out appropriately spec'd trucks, Ford and Dodge (well RAM trucks, whatever) come in about the same. I get a discount on both through my job, but Dodge is a bit better. So I think out the door I could get something in the mid to high 40s. Still a lot of money, but if it becomes a "keep forever" truck, then the price becomes reasonable.

Interestingly, when I priced the GM it was slightly cheaper because the base truck has more of the desired options. But their interest rates are way higher. And I don't particularly like the GM trucks anyway.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Interesting thing looking at the local Ford dealer's inventory, they only stock Super Duties of around $70k MSRP.
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That doesn't surprise me for Louisburg out Olathe Ford. You will need to either hit the Olathe Ford Fleet Lot off I35 South of Santa Fe or Midway Ford to find the more basic trucks.
 
Axtel4 said:
That doesn't surprise me for Louisburg out Olathe Ford. You will need to either hit the Olathe Ford Fleet Lot off I35 South of Santa Fe or Midway Ford to find the more basic trucks.
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That's good to know, thanks. Any idea for the equivalent for Rams?
 
SoonerAviator said:
Now you know why GM claims "higher resale value" when they are sold for $3K more to start with. :)
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Yeah, but you will buy two Fords in the same time frame that you will own the GM...:lol::lol:


Grum.Man said:
My local dealers have a ton of base model diesels. You can get an F350 crew cab long bed 4x4 power windows and locks for about $44,000.00 here. I've seen manual window F250 with diesels 4x4 for as low as 41,000.
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Wow... that is still more than I paid for my decently optioned GMC....:yesnod::yesnod:

I expect to keep my 2005 Duramax for another 9 years. By then I will be too old to need or want a diesel...so I will buy the most optioned out GM Duramax I can find.....and drive in the left lane of the interstate at 5 MPH below the speed limit, with the left turn signal on...:lol::lol:
 
If you can get a Ford for the same price as a RAM there is no reason at all to go with a Ram. They are just way too outdated compared to the new V8 diesel. The current Duramax out performs them all but if you don't like them then that is out of the question anyway.
 
Zeldman said:
Wow... that is still more than I paid for my decently optioned GMC....:yesnod::yesnod:
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Yeah, but prices have gone up a lot since 2005. I bought my slightly above base Dodge in 2004 for $32k. Same truck has an MSRP of $50k today.
 
Grum.Man said:
If you can get a Ford for the same price as a RAM there is no reason at all to go with a Ram. They are just way too outdated compared to the new V8 diesel. The current Duramax out performs them all but if you don't like them then that is out of the question anyway.
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Sure there is. I like the Cummins engine better and I want a manual transmission. I also like the way the Dodge looks better.

Either way, I'm hoping the dealer can fix my F-350 on Friday for not a ton of money, and have me back on the road.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Sure there is. I like the Cummins engine better and I want a manual transmission. I also like the way the Dodge looks better.

Either way, I'm hoping the dealer can fix my F-350 on Friday for not a ton of money, and have me back on the road.
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Well yeah, there is that option, but not as fun as a shiny new truck with that new truck smell inside....:)

How many forward gears does the Dodge manual tranny have?
 
Zeldman said:
Well yeah, there is that option, but not as fun as a shiny new truck with that new truck smell inside....:)

How many forward gears does the Dodge manual tranny have?
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True :)

Dodge is 6 in the manual or auto tranny. Same for the big diesel Ford and GM trannies.
 
Love a good "my brand wins, because it's the brand I own" conversation. ;)

I have a Ford truck as my primary vehicle because I wanted something with 4 full doors, an eight foot bed, leather seats, solid front axle and a manual transmission and transfer case. My price range at the time dictated I was looking at 04-08 trucks. In that range, Chevy was out (IFS), Dodge would have tickled my fancy, but I found my Ford first. I fix what breaks and move on (with all my vehicles). Never decided I had a lemon, never proclaimed an entire brand a POS based on my one vehicle experience. I currently own 2 Ford's, a Chevy, an Isuzu, a VW and two Honda's. They all have pluses and minuses.

The Chevy for example, is made primarily of iron oxide at this point. The VW has random low boost issues that I can't pinpoint, the one Honda needs a tranny (auto), the other pops out of third (manual), the Isuzu had apparently their first crack at designing EFI which includes ~9 miles of vacuum hoses (1990), and the Ford's are both 6.0's, which have their well documented issues.

Love em all -- they're paid for!
 
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I own a 04 Ram with the 5.9 Cummins, and a 2012 Ford F350 with the 6.7 diesel. Take it for what it's worth, but I'll own the 04 Ram long after the Ford is long gone! Actually, the 04 Ram is the only vehicle I have the is absolutely not for sale.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That's good to know, thanks. Any idea for the equivalent for Rams?
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If you really have you heard set on a Ram :), the closest Dodge Fleet dealer to you that I know of is Olathe Dodge at 117th and Strang Line.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Agreed there's a reason they're cheaper, although part of that reason is also volume.
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You realize you just called Ford, WalMart, right? LOL.

Ted DuPuis said:
Sure there is. I like the Cummins engine better and I want a manual transmission. I also like the way the Dodge looks better.

Either way, I'm hoping the dealer can fix my F-350 on Friday for not a ton of money, and have me back on the road.
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That's ultimately what kept me in my old Dodge when I blew it up. I could fix the motor, steering, brakes, and put both a better manifold on it for the turbo AND bigger and brand new injectors... for half of another used 3500, and well under 1/3 of the price of new.* (half the price of a work truck option package).

Of course I also relegated myself to crap like this year... the A/C died. LOL. So it's kinda a never ending repair with the old Dodge, but still way cheaper than the insanity at the dealerships.
 
Axtel4 said:
If you really have you heard set on a Ram :), the closest Dodge Fleet dealer to you that I know of is Olathe Dodge at 117th and Strang Line.
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If I buy new, I'll likely get a Dodge just because I'd want the manual transmission.

Checking out the Olathe Dodge fleet sales, all they have in stock are automatics. So, as I figured, it'd be a special order.
 
denverpilot said:
You realize you just called Ford, WalMart, right? LOL.
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Point taken. ;)

That's ultimately what kept me in my old Dodge when I blew it up. I could fix the motor, steering, brakes, and put both a better manifold on it for the turbo AND bigger and brand new injectors... for half of another used 3500, and well under 1/3 of the price of new.* (half the price of a work truck option package).

Of course I also relegated myself to crap like this year... the A/C died. LOL. So it's kinda a never ending repair with the old Dodge, but still way cheaper than the insanity at the dealerships.
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This is true. And if the Ford were a different configuration (black, manual transmission, probably a dually, few other details) then I would probably spend the money to do the engine like you did on your Dodge. But this was a compromise truck anyway, so I'm not willing to put a bunch of money into an engine for it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
This is true. And if the Ford were a different configuration (black, manual transmission, probably a dually, few other details) then I would probably spend the money to do the engine like you did on your Dodge. But this was a compromise truck anyway, so I'm not willing to put a bunch of money into an engine for it.
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Yeah I've been trying to think what I'd do in your shoes. Since the answer to "Would you fix this truck if someone gave it to you for free?" (I like figuring out how to ask money questions backward. It keeps me from thinking rearward and counting sunk costs... which I can't change going forward anyway...) is probably... no.

It's a tough one.

I guess you'll know more or at least have hard numbers once the dealer looks at it.

If you were in the market for new ... that "forever" truck, you might do what a friend did recently when his car damaged itself badly. (Tossed the last bits of a clutch through the transmission housing, the manual transmission case, and exited the case out the bottom, dumping all the transmission fluid and who knows what damage in there...) He ran the numbers and figured out what the dealer cost would be to fix it, took it off of the trade in price of the vehicle, and made them an offer they couldn't refuse on keeping the car and giving him a new one minus what they'd make on the old one. Or close.

By the way, it was a Subaru. Not that it matters much.

Here's the sucky part for him. Brand new vehicle, he gets in this morning and before he turns the key he hears arcing and zapping somewhere undefined. He decides to start it up, and the dash throws warnings that ALL of the safety systems are dead along with the EyeSight system. Air bags, ABS, all of it. Dead. And a steady (not blinking of course) CEL. (It's always nice when electronics can tell you that they're all dead, eh? LOL!)

He's had it about two months. Ouch!

Hahaha. Oh well, at least it'll be covered under warranty!

Vehicles suck. That's about the long and short of it. :)

And BLACK? What's wrong with you?! Hahaha.
 
I like black trucks. Always have. What I can't figure out is what's wrong with people who buy white trucks. ;)

Yeah, it is a tough one. At the moment it's really all speculation until I hear what the dealer says and if it's fixable without a new engine. The real answer is that if it's fixable fairly easily and (relatively) cheaply, then I'll fix it. If it'll take an engine, then that makes the decision harder. AggieMike might be able to help me find a used engine for it, but that has its own set of concerns and I don't have time to do the work at all.
 
Since it's not a daily driver... any diesel colleges nearby? Might take a class of students months to do an engine swap, but...

Dunno if they will even do such a thing. But just a thought.
 
Ted, you just may wish to bite the bullet and order a Ram the way you want, and keep it as a forever truck. Why? Manual transmissions are already gone at GM and Ford, can't get them in any configuration of their pickup trucks. Dodge dealers (mine included) do not stock the 6-sp manual. IMO, the manuals will not stick around much longer at Dodge. Take rate is low, and it's easier to integrate the programming of the engine/transmission for mileage and emissions using automatic transmissions. My guess? The manual will be gone on the next model cycle update.

Get one the way you want, take care of it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
If I buy new, I'll likely get a Dodge just because I'd want the manual transmission.

Checking out the Olathe Dodge fleet sales, all they have in stock are automatics. So, as I figured, it'd be a special order.
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You do know that the manual transmission diesel is significantly de-rated compared to the auto right? You give up like 240 lb/ft of tq compared to the auto dodge and 340 lb/ft to the Ford and GM. That is like giving up a whole other gas engine to help you pull.
 
Grum.Man said:
You do know that the manual transmission diesel is significantly de-rated compared to the auto right? You give up like 240 lb/ft of tq compared to the auto dodge and 340 lb/ft to the Ford and GM. That is like giving up a whole other gas engine to help you pull.
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One, I think you're making a statement that just isn't true without qualifying which engine's you're talking about. I own an automatic 6.0 (2006) and a manual 6.0 (2005). They both have the same sticker on the valve cover, 365hp. No power pulled when they installed the third pedal. My 7.3 manual was same as my 7.3 auto. I guess I'm not sure about the 6.4L Ford, but I didn't ever remember reading about a 340lb/ft derate, and the 6.7L never had a manual behind it, so I'm not sure what motor you could be talking about.

Two, you're giving up more power to the wheel with an automatic as there is an inherent loss when you're fluid coupling the motor to the drive axle, so even if they hold back a few (as they do in the case of the Dodges), you're also gaining a few to the ground. When I come off the clutch on my truck, it's mechanically coupled (obviously there are parasitic losses, minute slippage, etc, but nothing like an unlocked torque converter).

Three, it's all in the tuning...so when I put a tuner on my truck, the factory tuning would become null and void anyway.

My $0.02.

That said, I think after rereading, maybe you're saying you lose 340lb/ft comparing the new manual Dodge to the new automatic Ford? In which case...point's 2 and 3 still apply.
 
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Bill Jennings said:
Ted, you just may wish to bite the bullet and order a Ram the way you want, and keep it as a forever truck. Why? Manual transmissions are already gone at GM and Ford, can't get them in any configuration of their pickup trucks. Dodge dealers (mine included) do not stock the 6-sp manual. IMO, the manuals will not stick around much longer at Dodge. Take rate is low, and it's easier to integrate the programming of the engine/transmission for mileage and emissions using automatic transmissions. My guess? The manual will be gone on the next model cycle update.

Get one the way you want, take care of it.
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I've had the same thoughts for the same reasons, Bill. I think that Dodge has held out on the manual transmissions basically for the people like me. Unfortunately, I suspect that by the time my kids learn to drive it will be impossible to get a manual transmission in a new vehicle, and knowing how to use one will be an obsolete skill. Even BMW has gotten rid of them, which is a real shame, and probably means I will never buy one of the current generation of BMWs. I understand the reasons many like automatics, but I just don't and never will.

I agree with you that the Rams will probably lose the manual transmission soon - like you said probably in the next update.

The other option is to find one of those rare low mileage trucks (which comes with a price tag to match) that's been optioned out and has a manual. They're hard to find, but that could be another way. Really if I get a forever truck I'd like some of the nice features that I'd probably talk myself out of if buying new.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ted, you just may wish to bite the bullet and order a Ram the way you want, and keep it as a forever truck. Why? Manual transmissions are already gone at GM and Ford, can't get them in any configuration of their pickup trucks. Dodge dealers (mine included) do not stock the 6-sp manual. IMO, the manuals will not stick around much longer at Dodge. Take rate is low, and it's easier to integrate the programming of the engine/transmission for mileage and emissions using automatic transmissions. My guess? The manual will be gone on the next model cycle update.

Get one the way you want, take care of it.
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The death spiral of manuals being justified by take rate is humorous to me. It's circular logic (by the manufacturers/dealers). I can give you two specific examples, in real life: My mom. She always drove manuals, went to a dealer (brand not important) to look at new cars. They had far more auto's in the model that she wanted than manuals. The transmission type wasn't a make or break for her, but if they'd had the manual in the color she wanted, it would have gone home with her. They didn't, so she bought an auto. They didn't because they had 10:1 auto's to manuals. Second: My wife. Equally ambivalent about transmission type. You know what she isn't ambivalent about? Seat head (butt heat, as she calls it). Same scenario...when the only manuals on the lot are stripped models, she looks at the automatics. Not because of the transmission type, but because she couldn't get the butt heat without the slushbox. Full disclosure: In that second example we walked...found a 3 pedal butt-heated model and everyone was happy...but the point is, the take rate is low, justifying carrying fewer, forcing the take rate lower, justifying carrying even fewer, forcing the take rate lower...until one day, we're all walking around wondering where the manual transmission went.

The fuel economy part, you're right, and that sucks. That was the reason cited by a few manufacturers over the past few years of sportier cars that offer manuals overseas, but not here: couldn't get the EPA happy with the three pedal because it is what it is in the fuel economy department...whereas the auto's all have an "ECO" button to put shift points right where they need to be to optimize fuel economy and emissions, and a "Sport" button to put the shift points where they ought to be, and a normal mode that puts them somewhere in the middle.

Ted: I've got your truck. My Ford is Black, Manual, Dually, well optioned, and LOW LOW miles (320k). Make me an offer. :)
 
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SaltH2OHokie said:
Ted: I've got your truck. My Ford is Black, Manual, Dually, well optioned, and LOW LOW miles (320k). Make me an offer. :)
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Is it 4x4? Will you trade for a super low-mile (189k) 4x4 F-350? ;)
 
SaltH2OHokie said:
One, I think you're making a statement that just isn't true without qualifying which engine's you're talking about. I own an automatic 6.0 (2006) and a manual 6.0 (2005). They both have the same sticker on the valve cover, 365hp. No power pulled when they installed the third pedal. My 7.3 manual was same as my 7.3 auto. I guess I'm not sure about the 6.4L Ford, but I didn't ever remember reading about a 340lb/ft derate, and the 6.7L never had a manual behind it, so I'm not sure what motor you could be talking about.

Two, you're giving up more power to the wheel with an automatic as there is an inherent loss when you're fluid coupling the motor to the drive axle, so even if they hold back a few (as they do in the case of the Dodges), you're also gaining a few to the ground. When I come off the clutch on my truck, it's mechanically coupled (obviously there are parasitic losses, minute slippage, etc, but nothing like an unlocked torque converter).

Three, it's all in the tuning...so when I put a tuner on my truck, the factory tuning would become null and void anyway.

My $0.02.

That said, I think after rereading, maybe you're saying you lose 340lb/ft comparing the new manual Dodge to the new automatic Ford? In which case...point's 2 and 3 still apply.
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Since we were talking about new trucks I didn't figure I needed to specify which engine I was talking about. Also, you may give up a slight bit of HP with the manual but you gain tq with the automatic when the converter is slipping. Once the converter locks up there is very little difference in the required HP to run a modern auto versus a modern manual.

Again since we are talking new trucks he will have a warranty. You would be very unwise to put a tune on a brand new truck and risk voiding the warranty of a diesel that is very expensive to fix.
 
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