Thinking About (ok bought) F-350 with PowerStroke 6.0L - Questions

[Ted]

Dealers stock what sells, and what sells these days are luxury trucks. If you want a work truck, order one! One can get an F250/350 turbodiesel in XL trim, industrial vinyl seats, black rubber floors, crank windows, no bullchit. Work truck.

Agreed. I went and priced out the same truck I bought in 2004 for $32k out the door. MSRP is somewhere around $50k now. If I could get the same thing for the low 30s, I might actually buy new. Then again, I've gotten spoiled by my luxury vehicles that I've had over the past 13 years...

 

[SoonerAviator]

Another fun fact - because the volume on the base trucks are so low, the cost of many of the base trim pieces and features is more than the luxury pieces, once the very expensive tooling is amortorized over a very small number of trucks.

Upgrade option packages are big profit centers.

Yup. Hell, I probably see more F-250/350 Lariats/King Ranch/Platinum versions than I do XLT and below. Back in the early 00's it used to be special to see a loaded out King Ranch or Harley Davidson model, now they're more common than not. That being said, I wouldn't trade my '08 Lariat (effectively Platinum edition before it existed) for any other truck built that year. Has been a solid workhorse when I need it to, but rides nice for a truck using it as a DD for almost a decade. Dual climate control, power moonroof/back glass, rear-view camera, auto-start, heated seats, audiophile sounds system, etc. are all fantastic options on my truck that I use almost every time I drive it. If I was out every day doing construction site work or farm work, I'd likely have a plain XL/XLT with vinyl floor mats and crank windows. However, since I use my truck like a car for 5 days a week, I like it to have all of the options that my car has.

 

[Bill]

However, since I use my truck like a car for 5 days a week, I like it to have all of the options that my car has.

And that's why luxury trucks sell. People use them as the second family car and daily driver, yet can pull the big boat or camper on the weekends.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

And that's why luxury trucks sell. People use them as the second family car and daily driver, yet can pull the big boat or camper on the weekends.

I use my Lariat f350 as a work truck. Who says creature comforts and work can't cohabitate?

[Lariat with a 6 speed manual, by the way. Next truck will likely have to be a Dodge for that very reason, as Ted mentioned... Really prefer that 3rd pedal.]

 

[denverpilot]

Dealers stock what sells, and what sells these days are luxury trucks. If you want a work truck, order one! One can get an F250/350 turbodiesel in XL trim, industrial vinyl seats, black rubber floors, crank windows, no bullchit. Work truck.

Yeah I know. It's just weird.

I use my Lariat f350 as a work truck. Who says creature comforts and work can't cohabitate?

[Lariat with a 6 speed manual, by the way. Next truck will likely have to be a Dodge for that very reason, as Ted mentioned... Really prefer that 3rd pedal.]

Mmmmmmm. Manual. Tasty. Love my six speed manual. Didn't think Ford even still had them as an option..., oh that's what you're saying, Dodge is the only one left and it's special order. Got it. Yeah.

I bet they won't carry it in their lineup for too much longer.

 

[Zeldman]

Nowadays the truck makers have gone too far over into "luxury car" territory. They need to ratchet it back a bit. Most truck guys interest falls back to what the manufacturers all classify as their "work" truck or "fleet" truck lines now. We don't need a $70,000 diesel pickup with more features than a 2000's vintage luxury car. We need a truck.

A few creature comforts are nice (where the truck biz went in the early 2000s) but air conditioned seats are ridiculous for something that'll be driven through a field and all the dirt from real work tracked into them.

That's no joke. The new 1/2 tons any make are just one step away from being a ladies dressing room....

 

[denverpilot]

That's no joke. The new 1/2 tons any make are just one step away from being a ladies dressing room....

And that's cool if that's what you like. Special ordering a "regular truck" is just odd.

Actually there's one dealer around here that keeps a stock of work trucks and a separate area of their lot for them as their "fleet" area.

Wifey wouldn't drive a truck until we got her a Lincoln. Ha. Nowadays she says she doesn't care if the next one has all that bling and chrome. She gets it now. It's a truck.

 

[Ted]

Well, got the truck back together. Aaaaaand.... the IPR/ICP replacement and pigtails didn't make any difference. Has the same hot start issue. The weak cylinder has gotten worse to a full-on dead cylinder. The good news is I was able to positively identify the cylinder - it's the rearmost on the driver's side, looks like #8. When I pulled the connector for that injector there was no difference - zero, zilch, nada. So either I didn't get the FICM connectors on well enough (I'll check those) or there's actually a problem.

If I'm going to fix the hot start issue, either way I'm pulling the valve covers and doing the dummy plugs etc. under there. Debating the course of action I want to take.

 

[denverpilot]

You starting to feel like you bought a Fix Or Repair Daily?

 

[Ted]

You starting to feel like you bought a Fix Or Repair Daily?

I think the real question is where I go from here. This isn't a truck I intend to keep forever. It's possible the dead injector is related to the no hot start issue, but given the fact that one cylinder sounds weak when cranking it seems likely that the dead cylinder is low compression and thus requires engine work. If that's the case, I'm not doing it. I'm either paying someone to fix it, selling the truck, or paying someone to fix it to sell the truck. Really have no idea what it would cost to fix, need to talk to some shops around here.

There's also always the possibility that it's just a dead injector or wiring, but in this case I think that's less likely. I just hate putting significant work into a truck that was more of a compromise in the first place.

The options for fixing I think would be putting in a used engine, a new/overhauled engine, or trying to somehow repair this one. I just don't like the dollar figures associated with any of those.

 

[denverpilot]

Hopefully you know I was just joking around with ya. I'm sorry that thing didn't turn out to be a skookum choocher.

 

[Ted]

Hopefully you know I was just joking around with ya. I'm sorry that thing didn't turn out to be a skookum choocher.

I knew you were joking. I also still don't know WTF to do with the truck.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

I knew you were joking. I also still don't know WTF to do with the truck.

You have a miss hot and cold? I'd be looking at either trying to do the buzz test on the injectors to see if you have any electrical issue, as some of the earlier trucks had wire harness issues. Test really only says if you "don't" have an electrical issue if all 8 act right... Doesn't necessarily say you "do" if they don't all click, could be a mechanically broken injector not an electrical issue.

Could just replace #8 injector, or at least swap it with another and see if your miss follows, and I'd do every o-ring or seal I could associated with high pressure oil (which might include pulling HPOP).

Even if you've lost confidence/lost the taste for that truck, still seems the economic argument for fixing it is there, then sell it if that's the road you're going down. Probably take a pretty good hit if you try to sell as is and are honest about the condition mechanically.

Plus if you were to say replace all the injectors and reseal the HP oil system and she ran like a champ, you'd likely not have to worry about either of those systems for a good long while.

 

[Ted]

Well I played with it a bit more now including th FICM connectors after looking at wiring connectors. After doing that, #8 came back. I was also able to get #4-8, and disconnecting each of those produced a hard miss. It drives "normal" now, that is the same as it did (which I'm still not convinced is right). Once it cools off I'll check the other 3. So I might be able to fix it for injectors and dummy plugs etc then decide what to do with it.

I'm hopeful I can fix it. If I can and make it run truly well then I'll probably keep it, although I do want a Cummins.

 

[Ted]

One other thing I noted - ICP pressure at idle is a bit high, 630-650 at warm idle. That would make a bad/weak injector make sense.

 

[Ted]

Well, I got the other 3 cylinders checked. #2 does nothing when I pull the plug for the injector, so that points towards it being the bad hole. And it's running the way it ran before with that disconnected. Apparently this engine can hide a dead cylinder reasonably well. Whether I can fix it or not, we'll see. I left my multimeter at the airport so I'll check to see if it's getting power or not first,

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

No cylinder contribution codes are being thrown?

 

[Ted]

No cylinder contribution codes are being thrown?

Not getting any but I could be using the scangauge wrong.

Called the local diesel shops. Basically got the if it's a simple injector it'll be $2k or so, if it needs an engine $10-14k. Not liking those numbers.

 

[jsstevens]

Not getting any but I could be using the scangauge wrong.

Called the local diesel shops. Basically got the if it's a simple injector it'll be $2k or so, if it needs an engine $10-14k. Not liking those numbers.

Why $2K for an injector? (Not a diesel mechanic, I'm just curious what is involved.)

 

[Ted]

Why $2K for an injector? (Not a diesel mechanic, I'm just curious what is involved.)

The injectors are a couple hundred a piece. But start off the diagnostics with a compression check (few hundred in labor) plus the other bits and pieces required to do the labor. Might be $1,500. You have to pull the valve covers and then there's a bunch of o-rigs and such that probably are bad.

 

[jsstevens]

The injectors are a couple hundred a piece. But start off the diagnostics with a compression check (few hundred in labor) plus the other bits and pieces required to do the labor. Might be $1,500. You have to pull the valve covers and then there's a bunch of o-rigs and such that probably are bad.

Ah. So it's not $2K for 1 injector. That's what had me puzzled.

 

[Craig]

Ted: If you don't have Autoenginuity for the Ford, find someone that does, or a shop that will do a buzz test first. If #2 is bad, swap with the nearest one on that side and do the test again. If the dead injector moves, it's the harness. If it doesn't move, then most likely the injector. I think a harness runs about 200$.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

And those earlier trucks had some trouble with the harness chafing... Might be a simple(ish) fix.

Still leaves your hot start (high pressure oil) issue.

 

[Ted]

I'm pretty sure the hot start/oil issue is related to some of the O-rings, etc. under the valve covers. It could be that's also what's causing my dead injector.

I've spent the day thinking about what the shops I talked to this morning told me, and also thinking about the advice here from Craig and SaltH2OHokie. The diesel shops I talk to are pretty clearly in the business of high performance PowerStrokes and want to sell you a built up $14k engine with head studs. They're not interested in the cheap fixes, whatever those may be. One thing the one guy also said was that, given the description of my blow-by (the oil filler cap doesn't shoot off, it basically just sits there and blow-by puffs out at idle), he thinks I likely don't have a physically dead cylinder. His words were "I've raced engines with worse than that." He also said that if the engine is stock, it really is pretty rare to have it actually lose a cylinder unless the injector starts dumping fuel in and burns the piston/rings up. I do still think I have one that's worse than the others, but if I can make all 8 run, that's good enough for me.

The other clue that came to mind was the other day after putting the truck back together following the IPR and ICP. The first time I did it, the #8 cylinder was dead (I think #2 was dead as well), and after fiddling with the connectors on the back of the FICM, I got #8 to kick back on. The connectors on this truck aren't in the best of shape, so it is certainly possible that there's a harness/connector/wiring issue causing it, and the buzz test makes sense.

I don't have the tool that can do the buzz test, but I'm thinking of taking it to the Ford dealer. They have a $100 diagnostic charge and I'll specify that I want the buzz test done among whatever else they do. If I have them repair whatever's broken, the $100 diagnostic charge goes towards the repair. I'm thinking they might be more pragmatic than diesel shops who don't understand why I don't want a 700 HP engine in my truck. Normally I'd tackle this myself, but I have enough other stuff to work on and while this may not be that tough of a job, I'm just at a point where I'd rather pay someone to do it if it's required.

 

[Clark1961]

I'm pretty sure the hot start/oil issue is related to some of the O-rings, etc. under the valve covers. It could be that's also what's causing my dead injector.

I've spent the day thinking about what the shops I talked to this morning told me, and also thinking about the advice here from Craig and SaltH2OHokie. The diesel shops I talk to are pretty clearly in the business of high performance PowerStrokes and want to sell you a built up $14k engine with head studs. They're not interested in the cheap fixes, whatever those may be. One thing the one guy also said was that, given the description of my blow-by (the oil filler cap doesn't shoot off, it basically just sits there and blow-by puffs out at idle), he thinks I likely don't have a physically dead cylinder. His words were "I've raced engines with worse than that." He also said that if the engine is stock, it really is pretty rare to have it actually lose a cylinder unless the injector starts dumping fuel in and burns the piston/rings up. I do still think I have one that's worse than the others, but if I can make all 8 run, that's good enough for me.

The other clue that came to mind was the other day after putting the truck back together following the IPR and ICP. The first time I did it, the #8 cylinder was dead (I think #2 was dead as well), and after fiddling with the connectors on the back of the FICM, I got #8 to kick back on. The connectors on this truck aren't in the best of shape, so it is certainly possible that there's a harness/connector/wiring issue causing it, and the buzz test makes sense.

I don't have the tool that can do the buzz test, but I'm thinking of taking it to the Ford dealer. They have a $100 diagnostic charge and I'll specify that I want the buzz test done among whatever else they do. If I have them repair whatever's broken, the $100 diagnostic charge goes towards the repair. I'm thinking they might be more pragmatic than diesel shops who don't understand why I don't want a 700 HP engine in my truck. Normally I'd tackle this myself, but I have enough other stuff to work on and while this may not be that tough of a job, I'm just at a point where I'd rather pay someone to do it if it's required.

So why don't you want a 700 hp truck? That's sorta un'merican.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

I think buzz test, injector trouble shooting to get you running on 8 is step one, and it's either going too lead you to your smoking gun that's got it down a cylinder and hot start issues (injector failure that allows HP oil to leak down?) Or, you'll at least hopefully be on 8 cylinders consistently and can then troubleshoot your hot start issue.

One thing I'd say, if you have one side apart, I'd do all 4 injectors on that side.

If you get an independent shop to do it, my buddy has used Warren injectors in a handful of trucks without any issues that I'm aware of. If you do dealer, they'll use Ford remans, which I'm sure are good too.

 

[Ted]

So why don't you want a 700 hp truck? That's sorta un'merican.

Because I fly a 620 HP plane that can outrun that 700 HP truck any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Maybe not in the 1/4 mile, but let's see who can get from here to Florida faster.

I think buzz test, injector trouble shooting to get you running on 8 is step one, and it's either going too lead you to your smoking gun that's got it down a cylinder and hot start issues (injector failure that allows HP oil to leak down?) Or, you'll at least hopefully be on 8 cylinders consistently and can then troubleshoot your hot start issue.

One thing I'd say, if you have one side apart, I'd do all 4 injectors on that side.

If you get an independent shop to do it, my buddy has used Warren injectors in a handful of trucks without any issues that I'm aware of. If you do dealer, they'll use Ford remans, which I'm sure are good too.

I was thinking the exact same thing about doing all 4 injectors on one side if I get to that point. The factory Ford injectors aren't cheap, but they're in line with the other quality reman injectors. This, of course, assumes they find an issue on the injection side. I'll call in the morning to make an appointment and be hopeful there's a simple fix.

 

[Zeldman]

Because I fly a 620 HP plane that can outrun that 700 HP truck any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Maybe not in the 1/4 mile, but let's see who can get from here to Florida faster. .

Yeah, but can your plane go through the mud like that truck can..???

 

[Clark1961]

Because I fly a 620 HP plane that can outrun that 700 HP truck any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Maybe not in the 1/4 mile, but let's see who can get from here to Florida faster.



I was thinking the exact same thing about doing all 4 injectors on one side if I get to that point. The factory Ford injectors aren't cheap, but they're in line with the other quality reman injectors. This, of course, assumes they find an issue on the injection side. I'll call in the morning to make an appointment and be hopeful there's a simple fix.

I can get to Florida faster. You are now branded a communist or a Canadian. Dunno which is worse.

 

[denverpilot]

Yeah, but can your plane go through the mud like that truck can..???

Ted has a takeoff through mud at Gastons I believe. Different airplane though.

If there's no FARM truck independent shops around you Ted, I agree you're probably stuck with the dealer. I'm thinking if you get out of town there you can find someone who understands you want a work truck and not a racer.

Even my guy I *love* using here, certainly makes his real money pushing horsepower. But he's wise enough to know two things... I'm better advertising for him than he can buy. And two, I have the case that will crack.

Hahaha. So he had to mellow his roll a bit on my truck. He said he'd make it a racer if I wanted it, but I'd better start shopping for a donor engine if I said yes. LOL.

Rob is a good guy. He saved me a lot of money that day. C-130 pilots are always solid it seems.

 

[Ted]

Yeah, but can your plane go through the mud like that truck can..???

You never saw Tony fly by Aztec through a lake.

I figure I'll call the dealer when I get to work and make an appointment.

 

[Ted]

Appointment made for the end of the week. I hate waiting that long (and paying someone else), but for their $100 diagnostic fee that goes towards the cost of the repair if I have them do it, that seems worthwhile even if it's just to tell me my engine is officially toast. I've also asked them to diagnose why my 4x4 is inop. I figure I'll stretch my $100 as far as possible.

@N747JB any specials on new F-350s?

 

[Craig]

4x4 is probably dead due to a vacuum leak. Most likely one of the lines to the knuckle or one of the seals is leaking, if the solenoid is working. Quickest way to test is using a smoke generator while the truck is on a lift. Takes about a minute to locate the leak that way.

 

[Ted]

4x4 is probably dead due to a vacuum leak. Most likely one of the lines to the knuckle or one of the seals is leaking, if the solenoid is working. Quickest way to test is using a smoke generator while the truck is on a lift. Takes about a minute to locate the leak that way.

Thanks, Craig. If they don't tell me anything useful regarding the 4x4 then I'll try that. The light doesn't go on and I don't hear any clunk when I flip the switch. Lights turn on when I turn the key to "on", though turn off once I start. No idea what they did to try to fix it.

Hopeful the dealer is able to tell me/do something useful. Otherwise, it gets sorely tempting to just walk over to the Dodge dealer and figure out what I can get coming.

 

[Grum.Man]

Glutton for punishment huh? First you buy a 6.0 Ford, now looking at a Dodge, you must enjoy getting your hands dirty ;-).

 

[SoonerAviator]

Glutton for punishment huh? First you buy a 6.0 Ford, now looking at a Dodge, you must enjoy getting your hands dirty ;-).

The worst part of it was that he bought the 6.0L Ford and he knew it was missing on a cylinder. Nah, he'll probably get some good news from the dealership that a new injector/o-rings or harness will solve the problem and he can truck on down the road for a long while. We need a Ford truck body/interior with a Cummins engine and an Allison tranny to get the best of all of it. (although the 6.7L PS Ford has now seems to be on-par or better than anything Dodge or GM has).

 

[Ted]

Glutton for punishment huh? First you buy a 6.0 Ford, now looking at a Dodge, you must enjoy getting your hands dirty ;-).

My Dodge was a great truck, the best I've owned. Of course, I bought it new and only put 108k on it in 2 years before selling it. Loved the Cummins.

The worst part of it was that he bought the 6.0L Ford and he knew it was missing on a cylinder. Nah, he'll probably get some good news from the dealership that a new injector/o-rings or harness will solve the problem and he can truck on down the road for a long while. We need a Ford truck body/interior with a Cummins engine and an Allison tranny to get the best of all of it. (although the 6.7L PS Ford has now seems to be on-par or better than anything Dodge or GM has).

No, the F-350 was not bought with it missing on a cylinder. In looking at what's happened, my thought is that the previous owner noticed a cylinder starting to fail and decided to sell it. It wasn't bad enough to be super noticeable, just really the loss of midrange. Then the starting's gotten harder and the cylinder loss is more pronounced. Now that it's a solid running on 7, it's still smoother than you'd think. But the mid-range power loss makes more sense now. Even at idle it doesn't lope badly.

We'll see what they say. I was hesitant about buying a 6.0, and if I get through these pains maybe it won't turn out so bad. Now knowing for sure that it's not running right, I'm thinking I may actually like it fine when all is said and done. That's assuming it doesn't need an engine.

Hey @AggieMike88 got any PowerStroke 6.0s around?

 

[Zeldman]

Did ya check fuses for the 4WD?

 

[Ted]

Did ya check fuses for the 4WD?

Yep, but I may have missed something.

 

[Grum.Man]

I almost fell for the trap of looking at a 6.4 powerstroke because of the cheap prices, same with the 6.0. There is a reason they are so much cheaper than the equivalent GM. The 07 and up Duramax seems to be the best combination of power and reliability especially when combined with the Allison. I don't like the GM interiors but there is no denying how much better they ride and drive than the straight axle trucks. The new 6.7 powerstroke seems like a strong engine but is already outclassed by the new Duramax. The cummins are fine engines that seem to last but are just outgunned compared to the v8 diesels and put in a crummy truck.

You can't go wrong with any of the new diesel engines especially once you remove all the EGR, DPF, CAT stuff.