Thinking About a Tractor

Ted

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
It worked well for the boat, so trying this again. :D

We're going to be moving to an 11 acre plot of land in the not-too-distant future. Out of those 11 acres, I'd say around 8 are grass, with trees randomly dispersed and some other more heavily wooded parts. We currently have a 52" deck mower that we had bought for our PA house (2 acres of land with probably 1-1.5 acres mowable). It made quick work of that job, and on our current 0.75 acre plot (with probably 0.25 acre mowable), it gets the job done in about 5 minutes.

With that sort of land to maintain, there will be a need for some additional equipment. Plus, I just want a tractor. I'm not afraid of older stuff. As I see it, the needs are:

- Front end loader (for various front end loader chores, plus plowing snow)
- Likely need a bigger mower than we have today
- Nice to have a backhoe and a blade for leveling landscape

One friend of mine made a good suggestion (or at least it sounded like it to me), that I get a 72" deck walk-behind or zero-turn mower to take care of the mowing in the most efficient manner, and then get a backhoe/loader combination, or something of that nature.

I'm curious as to thoughts on what would make the most sense for this kind of land, and what sort of tractor/equipment. The old stuff appeals to me since it works, has a classic feel, and still does the job. I'd actually prefer a gas engine for ease of starting in the winter vs. a diesel. The old Fords or Farmalls are appealing, but open to suggestions. Wanting to minimize cost since this will receive light duty/intermittent use for us, and we don't need a new professional grade setup.
 
One airport I used to frequent had an old farmall M with a large bush hog and it worked great. The secret is keeping the blades SHARP and the rig well greased. Another one has a zero turn sit down, good sized Kabota diesel which is fast and fun to run but it was purchased by the state ( most private airports in maryland are heavily subsidized by the state and or the Feds.) but it's expensive.
 
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Dang, that's a big one. I have a New Holland TC30 at the cabin. I love playing with it. Especially the backhoe for digging out stumps. In fact I spent most of yesterday and part of today on it. It's my favorite big boy toy.
 
Can't say enough good about Kubota equipment. I've been hard on diesel Kubota tractors and UTVs. Real good stuff.
 
Arbiter419 said:
Can't say enough good about Kubota equipment. I've been hard on diesel Kubota tractors and UTVs. Real good stuff.
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Everyone I've talked to who's owned a Kubota has said the same thing. Great equipment, just keeps on working. That would push up the budget a bit, though.
 
Most of my seat time is on equipment in the 200 - 500hp range, which is a bit of an overkill for what you're looking for. ;)

...But, I did start out on Massey Ferguson equipment (135, 235, 265, 275, 383). The 135 is a little small for a loader but you could probably find a 235 that has a loader on it. Those Perkins diesels are solid - and with a block heater and/or a shot of ether shouldn't give you too much trouble in the winter.
 
As mentioned in another thread, I have a 1948 Ford 8N. It is all of 24HP at sea level, and not made for convenience, but for work. I have a brush hog for the back, and a blade for moving dirt and snow.

Here's what I've learned. If you really want a front loader, you want power steering, and possibly 4WD. This ratchets up the price accordingly.

An antique, or very old Ford will do the job on the lawn, but the old boys just don't have the stones for front loader, or for other heaving moving. One other thing, if you're going to be working on grass, be careful about the tires. If you have std tractor tires on the back, you can tear up grass real quick. Look for turf tires, and also 4WD with fairly smooth fronts.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there with more experience than I have, the last time I was working a tractor I was in my teens, and it was some kind of Ford 600.

By the time this thread is over, you'll be riding one of those air con giants with auto nav costing a cool mil.
 
Arbiter419 said:
Can't say enough good about Kubota equipment. I've been hard on diesel Kubota tractors and UTVs. Real good stuff.
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Ted DuPuis said:
Everyone I've talked to who's owned a Kubota has said the same thing. Great equipment, just keeps on working. That would push up the budget a bit, though.
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We used Kubota tractors at the mine I work at. It's an underground mine, all the equipment takes a lot of abuse. The Kubota's keep on running.
 
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The bigger issues will be mid mower vs rear and hydrostatic vs manual. Kubota, New Holland, John Deere, etc are all good. Find the features you want. The color is less important. I had. Kubota before the NH. Both are rock solid. Local dealer presence is another factor.
 
Consider a skid steer. If I'd've bought my skid steer (50hp case) before I bougt my tractor (50hp Mahindra) I would have never bought the tractor. There's nothing the tractor can do that the skid steer can't do better. They're a bit more expensive but worth it IMO.

I do most of my mowing with a 61" ZTR that mows at 14mph...hard to go back to a 4 to 6 mph tractor pulling a three point mower after that.
 
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docmirror said:
As mentioned in another thread, I have a 1948 Ford 8N.
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The piper cub of tractors. Way overpriced and not very functional. One can buy (at least in my area) a real 40 to 50 HP tractor for about the same price as a little 25 HP 8N and actually get something done.

Plus, they won't flip over on you and kill you in the wintertime if you try to take off with the back tires frozen to the ground. As a kid I learned to always back up first on an 8N in the wintertime to avoid the flipping issues.
 
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timwinters said:
The piper cub of tractors. Way overpriced and not very functional. One can buy (at least in my area) a real 40 to 50 HP tractor for about the same price as a little 25 HP 8N and actually get something done.

Plus, they won't flip over on you and kill you in the wintertime if you try to take off with the back tires frozen to the ground. As a kid I learned to always back up first on an 8N in the wintertime to avoid flipping issues.
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Well, I got mine for free, so as for pricing it wasn't a problem for me. I mentioned the caveats in my post, which you so conveniently left out. With a blade or box on the back, they won't flip over. It's also common to see them with a ROP bar nowadays.

I moved some snow, some rocks, dug up a culvert, knocked down some scrub with mine. I bought a loader, but don't have it on yet, and I"m fully aware of the issues with low power, as I'm using it at 8000', so my power is down from sea level.

Really, they are a fine tractor for a small plat like he has. You wouldn't want to prep and till 40 ac with it, but it'll do fine on surface mx for 6-25ac. I have it on 16ac and it's doing the job. Easy on gas, easy to fix, decent hydraulics but not live which is a bummer.

<edit: Here's your 'overpriced'. http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/grd/5115708028.html spend $1600 on that, get a couple of implements and you are all set. Or - we can always spend more...>

<edit: Here ya go: http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/grd/5065369552.html Got it all, $2500. pfft>
 
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If we apply the same logic as most "which airplane" threads then clearly, you need something like this.

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With that much grass, you have a hay field. If you want to run a loader and a back hoe, you need hydraulics and preferably a Class II 3-Point with a Quick Hitch (quick hitch loaders are nice as well to change buckets and a hay spike.)

The most versatile tractor I found is the old Ford 9030 which was replaced by the New Holland TV 140. Many of them have a 3 point and PTO at both ends, and is an all hydraulic machine. You can push a 14 or 16' swather header and pull a rake at the same time, it'll pull any baler, and the bucket has a grapple that allows you to move 3 round bales at a time with a spike on the back. If you keep your eyes out, there's a bunch of implements that can be had for them including an auger that you can push down on. Also there's a big snow blower header.
 
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I'm a full time, commercial farmer. I own 6 tractors, ranging in size from small to larger than your first apartment. I have about 25 acres, spread out among 3 locations, that require mowing, snow plowing, driveway maintenance, etc., plus a 50'X2800' grass runway. I use a 35hp tractor with a 6' finishing mower and a 6' ZTR mower for mowing and have several tractors of between 80 and 125hp that have loaders for other jobs. What follows are my opinions which are just that-opinions. My opinions are informed by >50 years of experience with agricultural equipment, FWIW.

As with airplanes, finding something which suits the mission is desirable. It sounds like the primary mission is mowing, moving snow and maintaining a driveway. Moving dirt sounds like it's in the "nice but not all the time" category. Grounds maintenance and excavation are two very different activities, and equipment well suited to one won't do a very good job of the other. I'd buy for the primary mission and hire the guy down the road, who has all the right equipment, for earthmoving.

Ted, if you like older machinery, and want something reliable, serviceable and well supported, it's hard to beat the 20 series John Deere tractors, built from the mid 60s through the early 70s. These are some of the first truly modern tractors and, except for some creature comforts, don't really give up anything to current production small tractors. The 2020, 2520 or 3020 (40-70 hp) could be good choices. Parts and service are available almost everywhere outside of major metro areas and those tractors aren't hard to work on if you like to DIY.

Good hydraulics are essential for a loader tractor. The JD tractors I mentioned are about the oldest tractors you will find with closed center hydraulics. Open center systems are more common on other brands until you get up to tractors built from about 1980 on.

A 3-point hitch is almost universal on small tractors, but there are a few without. You don't want one without. :no:

There are a lot of older tractors available for pretty small money, but most are best suited for mowing and not much else. 9N and 8N Fords, the old, 2-cylinder John Deeres and older Massey Fergusons are popular but of more limited usefulness.

Skid loaders are another option. Expensive, though, and not good for mowing (they tear up the grass when turning; they aren't called skid steers for nothing). Also a PITA to work on. Skid loaders are probably best suited to material handling and light excavation. On a working farm or ranch they have multiple uses, but are probably overkill for the typical rural residence.

Go to www.tractorhouse.com and click the "under 100hp" link on the home page. You'll find thousands of tractors for sale all across North America. Then go to www.tractordata.com and compare the specs of any makes/models that strike your fancy. Just what you need; another Internet time waster. :rolleyes:

Mark
 
Stewartb said:
Dang, that's a big one. I have a New Holland TC30 at the cabin. I love playing with it. Especially the backhoe for digging out stumps. In fact I spent most of yesterday and part of today on it. It's my favorite big boy toy.
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We have a TC45 at our cabin. I've bushhogged around 350-400 acres on it once or twice a year for about 4-5yrs now. No problems yet....
 
I'm not a farmer of any sort, unless you call raising weeds on the slope so I don't have to mow it "farming."

But I do know a lot of farmers, and they all hate new equipment because apparently the manufacturers have it so electronically locked up that the farmers can't fix their own equipment anymore. They have to call a manufacturer-authorized fellow with a laptop to fix them, and those guys don't work cheap.

That's usually how I get to know the farmers: I have a reputation as a computer whiz. But the systems in question are proprietary and beyond my ability to help them.

Rich
 
My New Holland was under 6' of flood water for a week. Another week went by before I could get to it. Drain it, purge it, and change the fluids. It works like a champ. I did have to replace the wiring harnesses, though. Those things corrode very quickly after getting wet.
 
My dad has one of those little new hollands and it has absolutely disintregated compared to the kubota that he bought at about the same time. Also, it was one of his newer new hollands that had an electrical short that started a fire, which melted a hole it its plastic fuel tank, which then burned down the whole shed full of tractors and tools.

We always had blue tractors but with the newer ones, we are not fans.
 
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I have friend fixin' to sell a Massey-Ferguson 135 diesel, low time, box blade, brush hog and some Dort of cultivator, $4,000.00 including a tandem-axle trailer.
 
SCCutler said:
I have friend fixin' to sell a Massey-Ferguson 135 diesel, low time, box blade, brush hog and some Dort of cultivator, $4,000.00 including a tandem-axle trailer.
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Hard deal to beat. Most of the 135s I've seen were gas as well.
 
Sounds like a compact tractor would be the ticket. I have roughly the same mission as Ted laid out, but a bit larger at over 100 acres. I'm running a 20-hp John Deere 4100 with:
- 410 frontloader with larger 64" bucket
- 5' King Kutter brush hog (I've whacked 3"-4" diameter trees with it)
- 5' finish mower
- grating blade
- 5' disc
I generally keep about 8-10 acres mowed down with the brush hog, and an additional 3-5 with the finish mower (the yard right around the house is done with a riding mower). I disc and plant about 20-25 acres each year. For the rocky southern Missouri soil this set-up is a bit underpowered, but after a couple runs (and picking out the big rocks) it's not too bad. The frontloader has been plenty for some basic dirt-work, gravel hauling, firewood, and other various tasks.
 
I'd say he needs more than a compact tractor if he wants an FEL of any meaningful capacity. I've mentioned it in a thread earlier, but I love the Kubota B and L-series tractors. We run an L3130 for the bigger stuff and the 4WD/power steering makes it a breeze. If you are actually going to mow all 11ac, you'll want to find a 72" finish mower either as a 3-pt or mid-mount if the tractor has a mid-pto. Personally, I'd just brush hog it when it gets above knee-high and mow the 1-2acre area around the house with a ZTR. You'll get the mowing done much faster with a ZTR and the cut is far superior as well.

We used a compact tractor (Kubota B7100HST) for mowing originally, and the 60" MMM does well, it's just nowhere near as fast as the ZTR. Despite having 4WD, the turf tires frequently got it caught in mud with the mower deck on, so I'd recommend the R4 tires on whatever you decide to purchase.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I'd say he needs more than a compact tractor if he wants an FEL of any meaningful capacity.
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Well, sure, but every person's "meaningful capacity" differs. He didn't specify, but with only 11 acres, it can't be much. As I said, I have no problems with the compact doing some dirtwork, moving gravel, pulling stumps, moving firewood, some rough snow plowing, some rough grading, ect. What else is there to do on 11 acres? Start an open-pit mine?
 
It's all perspective. My 24hp Kubota was anemic compared to my 30hp New Holland. Mine compared to a buddy's 45hp JD? Pretty easy to predict. Buy what you need.
 
SCCutler said:
I have friend fixin' to sell a Massey-Ferguson 135 diesel, low time, box blade, brush hog and some Dort of cultivator, $4,000.00 including a tandem-axle trailer.
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That's a deal.

I use a 135 gas tractor and a 72" finish mower to maintain my runway and the larger areas around our buildings. In this area (ag equipment is like real estate; location makes a big difference) a 135 diesel without any attachments would probably bring almost as much as the asking price for that package.

Mark
 
SCCutler said:
I have friend fixin' to sell a Massey-Ferguson 135 diesel, low time, box blade, brush hog and some Dort of cultivator, $4,000.00 including a tandem-axle trailer.
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I'm going to send you a PM on this...
 
Lots of good info on here. The comments about sticking with small and older make sense, given what we're looking at doing/needing. Skipping the backhoe for now is logical, focus on the loader and blade, with possibility for a finish mower, but I think the higher speed of a dedicated mower would be better.
 
Arbiter419 said:
Can't say enough good about Kubota equipment. I've been hard on diesel Kubota tractors and UTVs. Real good stuff.
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^ This ^. Virtually indestructible with routine maintenance.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Well, sure, but every person's "meaningful capacity" differs. He didn't specify, but with only 11 acres, it can't be much. As I said, I have no problems with the compact doing some dirtwork, moving gravel, pulling stumps, moving firewood, some rough snow plowing, some rough grading, ect. What else is there to do on 11 acres? Start an open-pit mine?
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I'm not excluding compacts from the discussion, but FEL capacity is one of those things that you don't worry about until you don't have it. Sometimes that low-cap won't lift the full bucket of wet clay dirt, or that hay bale. It's much like tractor HP, it's all fun and games until you want to use a power hungry implement. Many compacts don't run 6' implements well, and if I'm mowing 11acres, I want 6' or better.
 
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HighFlyingA380 said:
Well, sure, but every person's "meaningful capacity" differs. He didn't specify, but with only 11 acres, it can't be much. As I said, I have no problems with the compact doing some dirtwork, moving gravel, pulling stumps, moving firewood, some rough snow plowing, some rough grading, ect. What else is there to do on 11 acres? Start an open-pit mine?
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He wants a back hoe as well, the hydraulic systems on the compacts just aren't typically up to continuous duty use.

For a low cost solution it takes 2 machines, an industrial back hoe and loader, and a 45-65hp tractor with a 3 point and 540 PTO and maybe a hydraulic feed for a sickle bar. That will get him everything he needs at the lowest price, low prices don't buy cabs though.:lol:

If all you want to do is work your own stuff, you don't need much really. Thing is, you can also put the equipment to work, but then you need a bit better equipment. Custom hay paid pretty well, it was one place in agriculture I could actually make money, and I didn't even work my land. Backhoes always have work if you advertise.
 
I'm not interested in putting my equipment to work for anyone but me, so that makes things easier.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I'm not interested in putting my equipment to work for anyone but me, so that makes things easier.
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Then just get a cheap tractor and industrial backhoe/loader. Two machines will be cheaper than one that does both jobs.
 
I initially purchased an old Ferguson TO-30(basically identical to a Ford 8N) with loader to do snow removal, move firewood, and just "general tractor stuff". That loader was very limited but I still accomplished a lot with the old machine. Usually found I ran out of traction with the old 2wd machine before I ran out of power. Tire chains were needed for snow work, got the job done though. Cleared a bunch of land of small trees with it, filled my garden, etc. These old tractors are easy to repair for anyone with decent mechanical knowledge. That's good because a 60+ year old tractor breaks often.

After a few years of use(and abuse) the leaking transmission seal became too much to deal with, was adding nearly 1/2 gallon of oil to it nearly every use and the clutch was slipping under heavy load. I could have fixed it but it was more than I wanted to deal with. Wanted something with 4wd that was actually designed for a loader. I ended up with a Mahindra 3535. Main selling points were it had a better lift capacity on the loader and 3pt than most other tractors in that size range, has an all metal body(no plastic fenders/hood like dome others), and was an all around heavier tractor for the size/money. Had it almost 2 years now. One taillight got some water in the seal and rusted, battery went dead, and I'm seeing a bit of surface rust in spots but nothing too severe. Starts up in the coldest weather and so far has done everything I've asked. I believe the loader lift capacity is 2400#. I move 1000-1400# hay bales with it routinely and it doesn't struggle with them. It's a bit hard to see around the bale on a small tractor though. I just got a 6' brush mower for it. Does struggle a bit going up hills in thick grass- I might have done better with a 5' but I'm mostly mowing waist high grass and it got it done so no complaints.

Be aware that once you get the tractor you start finding more uses for it than you thought of and soon it becomes a necessity rather than something you're unsure you really needed. Get a bit more tractor than you think you need for this reason.
 
I think what I'm learning with my little putt-putt is that jobs can be done with a small/compact tractor, but it takes a bit longer, and it's just not as convenient. I started moving decorative rocks with the blade, and it took me 6-7 passes with the blade to get rocks where I wanted them. Would have been 1 or 2 scoops with a decent front loader, and then use the loader bottom blade to drag it back smooth. Faster, easier with a decent loader, but I got it done with just the straight blade. As for brush clearing, I really wish for a live pto, but I'm getting it done by starting the pto up way high, and the tailwheel up in the top pin hole. I make a pass, knock some down, then lower the box blade, and the tailwheel pin again and make a final cut. So - two passes with low HP unit, vs one pass at low level with the bigger unit. It gets done, but takes more time. Of course, finish mowing is no different, but I don't have a finish mow blade, and use a 52" Poulan lawn tractor for that.

If I had it to do again(and didn't get the 8N for free), I would go for one of the older 4WD units with power steering and a dedicated loader. Ford 600 family, maybe something in the JD mid-60s vintage range, etc. But I got what I got, and it's doing the job for me.
 
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