Things to look for ...

DaleB

DaleB

Final Approach
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DaleB
Some time next week I'll be looking at a potential restoration project. I've never dealt with a tube & fabric airplane before. Never owned one, never flown one, heck I've never even sat in one. So this will be some fresh ground for me.

The plane is disassembled, the fabric is off (but saved), repairs complete from some earlier damage. The owner claims everything is ready for fabric; I'm not counting on that.

My desire is to make sure that it doesn't have any show-stopping defects, there are no repairs needed that I'm not willing to tackle (or have tackled for me), etc. I have a mental list of things to check for:

  • Spars - inspect for cracks, evidence of compression stress, varnish, overall condition, wear around mount bushings
  • Wings - Check for any bent, corroded or obviously un-airworthy ribs, drag wires, braces, etc.
  • Fuselage & tail - Check for rust, ping with a blunt spring-loaded punch to check for internal corrosion
  • Measure fuse for squareness where it should be square
  • All bits and pieces present including data plate, logbooks, documentation
  • Check prop for cracks, damage, etc.
  • Engine - well, I really don't care much, to be honest. Should all be there though.
  • One or two common defects known specifically on this type, gleaned from web forums and stuff documented over the years.
  • Instruments - I'm just going to assume I'll need to replace them; if they're good, it's a big fat bonus.
I've already ordered, received and reviewed the FAA documentation CD; there were no surprises there. I've read up on the type enough to know some of the places to look for corrosion. Any other suggestions or recommendations?
 
Just trying to learn something. You said the fabric is off, but saved. Is it common to put the old fabric back on instead of replacing?
 
Which type aircraft?
 
Dave Theisen said:
Just trying to learn something. You said the fabric is off, but saved. Is it common to put the old fabric back on instead of replacing?
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No, you keep the old fabric to use it as a guide for placing things like inspection holes and drain grommets. After making sure the last guy knew what he was doing, of course. I read about one guy who had a Champ, and after some unrelated damage they found that some of the tubing near the tail was nearly rusted through. It seems someone many years before had put a drain hole in the wrong place, allowing water to collect and rust out the tubing. Hence the spring-loaded punch with the blunt end.

Jesse, it's a Champ. Looks like a pretty nice one, judging from the pictures, and it's even got a cool-as-hell reg number.
 
Thanks, didn't think you'd reuse it, but I hadn't thought about the value of using it as a pattern for the new fabric.


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DaleB said:
I've already ordered, received and reviewed the FAA documentation CD; there were no surprises there. I've read up on the type enough to know some of the places to look for corrosion. Any other suggestions or recommendations?
Click to expand...

SURE. I'm presuming you are looking at the Spruce Goose? If not, why not give us a freakin' CLUE what airplane you are considering?

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
SURE. I'm presuming you are looking at the Spruce Goose? If not, why not give us a freakin' CLUE what airplane you are considering?

Jim
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Yes, of course, the Goose is all tubing and fabric, that's why it's called the... oh, wait.

No, as noted above, it's a Champ.
 
DaleB said:
Yes, of course, the Goose is all tubing and fabric, that's why it's called the... oh, wait.

No, as noted above, it's a Champ.
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These folks can help you out: http://www.joea.com/phpBB2/index.php

But as to spars, they are wood, so unless they are new, plan to replace them. The door areas are also subject to rust/corrosion issues, as well as the lower longerons.
IIRC Kyle has an airknocker or two, and might be able to provide some insight.
 
Dale,
Another thing that can get pricey quick is the main gear oleos...they seep a bit and if ever allowed to run dry they tear themselves up pretty quick.
There are a couple of places that will re-build 'em but they want Beechcraft type coinage to do so...:yikes:

I'm thinking of finding a 7AC to play with too...

Good luck with your project!

Chris
 
Thanks! I have seen the prices for rebuilt oleos, I'll keep that in mind.
 
Dale,
do yourself a favor and find a champ or citabria and see how much trouble you have getting into the front seat. I, like you am a full grown man, (60 yrs. old 6'1" and 240lbs.) I can still get in and out of the front of the citabrias here on the field, but MUCH prefer the back seat. it is way easier to get in and out of the back, plus for me, I think you "feel" the plane better from the back. I owned a champ in the early 90's for about 5 yrs, but I was 20yrs younger and 50lbs lighter, and still found the back seat more comfortable. anyway, find one that the owner will let you try on for size. I've often thought the only flaw in the champ design was the solo from front seat only, beyond that if you can't have fun in a champ, cut up your license and stay home coz they are FUN to fly!!
p.s.
not meant to hurt feelings or anything like that, just to make sure you understand what you'll be up against everytime you go out to fly.
 
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cfiiguy said:
Dale,
do yourself a favor and find a champ or citabria and see how much trouble you have getting into the front seat. I, like you am a full grown man, (60 yrs. old 6'1" and 240lbs.) I can still get in and out of the front of the citabrias here on the field, but MUCH prefer the back seat. it is way easier to get in and out of the back, plus for me, I think you "feel" the plane better from the back. I owned a champ in the early 90's for about 5 yrs, but I was 20yrs younger and 50lbs lighter, and still found the back seat more comfortable. anyway, find one that the owner will let you try on for size. I've often thought the only flaw in the champ design was the solo from front seat only, beyond that if you can't have fun in a champ, cut up your license and stay home coz they are FUN to fly!!
Click to expand...
As a matter of fact -- I may be in one today. Not flying, unfortunately. There's a guy here (CFI, A&P/IA) who has one I'm going to take a look at. I think it may not be a good choice for me, since it's been on its back, but at least I'll be able to "try it on for size" so to speak, and he's got some parts I will very likely need.
cfiiguy said:
not meant to hurt feelings or anything like that, just to make sure you understand what you'll be up against everytime you go out to fly.
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No offense taken. We old fat guys have to stick together. :D It's why I haven't already bought a Chief!!
 
Dale,
did you get a chance to sit in the champ? if so how did it "fit"?

also don't let the fact it's been on its back bother you, a very high % of these old birds have been. it's not the damage it's how it was repaired.

nicest flying 7gcaa I have ever flown was in a ground loop landing that resulted in it hitting 2 parked aircraft!!? local I&A bought it and rebuilt it as a keeper. great little bird that flies hands off.

good luck in your search!
Steve
 
I did. Getting in and out is no worse than a 172, probably better. Rear seat access is great. Plenty of room, good view over the nose. This particular one probably needs more repair work than I'm looking to take on. There's another one I'll be looking at later this week, we'll see if we can make a deal on that one or not.
 
Champs are FAR easier to get in and out of than a Cub.

Look at the bottoms and sides of the bottom longeron tubes for rust. Moisture can settle in the small gap between the fabric and tubing and corrode it.

If the airplane has been on its back, those spars are extremely suspect. The load goes onto the wingtips, massively overloading the spars and can crack them through the strut attach fittings. An older Champ will have light steel strut fittings, too, and they can buckle and crack. The struts themselves are famous for rusting out from the inside; look near the lower end of the struts on the underside for blistering. The center punch thing is a good tool there. I flew a Champ for awhile that was eventually found to have one front wing strut rusted almost through. Eeeek. You should see just how thin those steel strut tubes are; .035", IIRC. Ten sheets of paper in thickness. Any rust is bad. BAD.

The wooden spars can crack horizontally at the rib nails. The wood shrinks as it ages, and the aluminum ribs don't, so they try to split the spar along the grain. Look at the spar top and bottom edges at the ends of the plywood strut attach doublers for compression damage. The doubler stiffens the spar at that spot, transferring and concentrating bending loads to the areas at the ends of the plywood.

Those aluminum ribs rot at the trailing edges. Moisture, again. Other aluminum bits in the wings, like the aileron false spars, often crack around their screws or rivets.

Dan
 
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