These planes?

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shyampatel94

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Shyam Patel
So I want to know what you guys think the best first plane to buy between these three? Cessna 172, Da40, and Piper Archer? I would be looking for a glass cockpit hopefully. What do you guys think between these three aircrafts? Pros? Cons? Which aircraft is the least boring? Any other aircrafts?
 
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1963-1967 C-172
 
Get the Archer.

This opinion is just as well argumented as any other opinion that will be posted in this topic :D
 
I'd go for the DA40. My reasoning is simple, it has the best performance, the safest, the most comfortable, and the most fun to fly.

Are you looking at buying brand new models or something a bit older?
 
MachFly said:
I'd go for the DA40. My reasoning is simple, it has the best performance, the safest, the most comfortable, and the most fun to fly.

Are you looking at buying brand new models or something a bit older?
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Either way, DA40
 
The da40 ,the room and performance of the aircraft can't be compared really to the other two mentioned aircraft.
 
All are fine airplanes. "Best" depends upon:

- Your mission
- Your budget
- Your expectations

Tell us more.
 
My main mission is mostly fly around the city and build time for my ratings! I want to get my commercial and get paid to fly. I will probably also go on 1 or 2 long cross country per month! I have also decided to make youtube videos, kind of like MrAviation101 and N311ls.

I would be probably buying a plane from 2004 and up, not a brand new one but a good price older one with a glass cockpit preferably a G1000.

Anything else you guys would need to know? I really like the DA40 as of now! I love the looks of the plane and the visibility of the aircraft. Also love the stick.
 
shyampatel94 said:
My main mission is mostly fly around the city and build time for my ratings! I want to get my commercial and get paid to fly. I will probably also go on 1 or 2 long cross country per month! I have also decided to make youtube videos, kind of like MrAviation101 and N311ls.

I would be probably buying a plane from 2004 and up, not a brand new one but a good price older one with a glass cockpit preferably a G1000.

Anything else you guys would need to know? I really like the DA40 as of now! I love the looks of the plane and the visibility of the aircraft. Also love the stick.
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Then get the DA-40, it has your requirements and is the most efficient of the above. You can probably find a G-1000 DA-40 for less than a G-1000 172. The comfort and ride quality of the Diamond is lower than the other two, and the center stick makes it much more difficult to refill a Gatorade jug on long cross countries, but that may not concern you. You could likely buy a Bonanza and fit it with a G-600 and GNS -750 and come out at around the same price as a G-1000 DA-40 or 172 (I haven't priced either in a while so that's a guess, last I looked all the G-1000 ones were over $200k) or less and have a much better plane that you can even take your Commercial ride in.
 
shyampatel94 said:
Which aircraft is the least boring?
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Interesting buying criteria.

Something you haven't shared with us yet in this thread is what your routine missions will be. Where are you routinely going to be flying to? Distance? Frequency? Number of people going?

How much money are you budgeting for the purchase? How much can you afford to spend per month/per year on aviation?

The answers helps the gallery here provide better answers. It also make sure your not one of the frequent pilots who "Think I want/need a PC-12 but only have a C150 budget"
 
Henning said:
The comfort and ride quality of the Diamond is lower than the other two
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Now who has ever come up with that? I had a 17 hr xc in a C185 last week - not by much, but still more room than 172 (in those I spent about 7.5hrs max at a stretch) - I would MUCH rather do that in a DA40. Ride quality - comparable. Comfort - you get used to a 40 and start wearing it after a point. Much less claustrophobic with a wider cabin. With a tad of practice I can say that the silicone-filled disposable baggies work at the very least just as fine with a center stick as they do in Cessnas.
 
moonshine said:
Now who has ever come up with that? I had a 17 hr xc in a C185 last week - not by much, but still more room than 172 (in those I spent about 7.5hrs max at a stretch) - I would MUCH rather do that in a DA40. Ride quality - comparable. Comfort - you get used to a 40 and start wearing it after a point. Much less claustrophobic with a wider cabin. With a tad of practice I can say that the silicone-filled disposable baggies work at the very least just as fine with a center stick as they do in Cessnas.
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I came up with it from several long flights including one the Grand Cayman and back that had my ass burning at the end of each leg and bounced us around so much in light turbulence that I had to take it off autopilot just so we could see straight and not **** blood.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Interesting buying criteria.

Something you haven't shared with us yet in this thread is what your routine missions will be. Where are you routinely going to be flying to? Distance? Frequency? Number of people going?

How much money are you budgeting for the purchase? How much can you afford to spend per month/per year on aviation?

The answers helps the gallery here provide better answers. It also make sure your not one of the frequent pilots who "Think I want/need a PC-12 but only have a C150 budget"
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I would say I would be flying once or twice every weekend. I would be flying a lot during my breaks such as winter break and summer break. During the breaks I would like to get to fly at least 3 to 4 times a week with some friends. Distance I would be flying is mainly in town and around different town airports but during the breaks I would be flying mostly cross country.

My budget is around 150k. I can spend 600 per month if I had my own plane to fly and spend on av gas.
 
Henning said:
I came up with it from several long flights including one the Grand Cayman and back that had my ass burning at the end of each leg and bounced us around so much in light turbulence that I had to take it off autopilot just so we could see straight and not **** blood.
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Mine came with sheepskins - haven't had any issues and don't own an iron butt either

Like any airplane, takes getting used to. I think I wrote somewhere, what helped me a lot is keeping the feet off the pedals - wiggles tail much less this way.

Don't particularly give a **** who thinks what about Diamonds, I'm not getting paid by the company, but certain things (ride quality being one) I see no grounds for. Now, I have been wrong before - some Diamonds do whistle the vents - if mine doesn't doesn't mean none of them do. Maybe the older small-rudder Diamonds are worse? I dunno. However, I do fly my DA40 more than any other airplane, I do fly it in Florida bumps, I do fly other brand airplanes too on regular basis, and I'm yet to turn green. No-one barfed in my airplane either yet, back seat or front.
 
shyampatel94 said:
I would say I would be flying once or twice every weekend. I would be flying a lot during my breaks such as winter break and summer break. During the breaks I would like to get to fly at least 3 to 4 times a week with some friends. Distance I would be flying is mainly in town and around different town airports but during the breaks I would be flying mostly cross country.

My budget is around 150k. I can spend 600 per month if I had my own plane to fly and spend on av gas.
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I don't think you have the budget for a G-1000 plane. You can retrofit glass into an older plane for less if the glass is a primary consideration.
 
Henning said:
I don't think you have the budget for a G-1000 plane. You can retrofit glass into an older plane for less if the glass is a primary consideration.
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That'll buy him a non-GFC700 G1000 DA40
There's even a 40FP for sale here in FL, 2006 G1000, no autopilot (which sucks), 2050 hrs and a fresh engine/prop for $144.5k
Same engine as Archer II/III and prop off of a Grumman Tiger. Cheaper to maintain (no $$$ for MT props) and you still get your 135 kts
 
shyampatel94 said:
I would say I would be flying once or twice every weekend. I would be flying a lot during my breaks such as winter break and summer break. During the breaks I would like to get to fly at least 3 to 4 times a week with some friends. Distance I would be flying is mainly in town and around different town airports but during the breaks I would be flying mostly cross country.

My budget is around 150k. I can spend 600 per month if I had my own plane to fly and spend on av gas.
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I gotta be honest, these numbers don't add up to me. You want to fly at least once or twice every weekend (say, 6 times a month), sometimes up to 3-4 times a week with occasional cross countries. That's a lot of flying. Sounds like you're looking to fly upwards of 30 hours a month for $600?

Your AvGas alone is going to run (30 hrs)*(8gph)*($6/gal) = $1440/mo at that rate. Even at the low end, flying "once or twice every weekend" you're probably going to spend 12 hours flying a month which is around $600 of gas. Then you need to account for ALL the other costs like hangar/tie-down, insurance, annual, engine reserve, G1000 updates, etc. As a comparison, I fly a Tiger which should have similar costs to all those planes you're looking at, and it costs me around $90/hr including fuel, plus ~$250/mo fixed costs, and that's in a four-way partnership.

Owning a plane is awesome -- don't get me wrong. But what I want to avoid is you blowing your $150k on a sweet plane, and then only being able to fly it 2 hours a month.
 
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dukeblue219 said:
I gotta be honest, these numbers don't add up to me. You want to fly at least once or twice every weekend (say, 6 times a month), sometimes up to 3-4 times a week with occasional cross countries. That's a lot of flying. Sounds like you're looking to fly upwards of 30 hours a month for $600?

Your AvGas alone is going to run (30 hrs)*(8gph)*($6/gal) = $1440/mo at that rate. Even at the low end, flying "once or twice every weekend" you're probably going to spend 12 hours flying a month which is around $600 of gas. Then you need to account for ALL the other costs like hangar/tie-down, insurance, annual, engine reserve, G1000 updates, etc. As a comparison, I fly a Tiger which should have similar costs to all those planes you're looking at, and it costs me around $90/hr including fuel, plus ~$250/mo fixed costs, and that's in a four-way partnership.

Owning a plane is awesome -- don't get me wrong. But what I want to avoid is you blowing your $150k on a sweet plane, and then only being able to fly it 2 hours a month.
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Sorry, I haven't got the numbers all straight yet. I'm not looking at the planes right now, I will be looking in the near future once I get my PPL. I will be sitting down with my dad and uncles to get the numbers straight when we start looking. They will be helping me finance the plane so I don't exactly have the numbers together! I will soon though! Right now I just want an idea of what the numbers will look like and just a general idea of the plane I want.
 
shyampatel94 said:
My main mission is mostly fly around the city and build time for my ratings! I want to get my commercial and get paid to fly. I will probably also go on 1 or 2 long cross country per month! I have also decided to make youtube videos, kind of like MrAviation101 and N311ls.

I would be probably buying a plane from 2004 and up, not a brand new one but a good price older one with a glass cockpit preferably a G1000.

Anything else you guys would need to know? I really like the DA40 as of now! I love the looks of the plane and the visibility of the aircraft. Also love the stick.
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RV12

Fits this mission perfectly
And is cheap to boot
(and is INTENDED to run on 91UL [withOUT an STC]) {going for $3.28/gallon today here}
4.4 gph, glass cockpit, time builder to get anywhere
:wink2:
 
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DA40 wins hands down for me. But that assumes you're comparing it with a similar vintage Archer or Skyhawk with similar avionics. I would personally go with an older and cheaper Piper or Cessna as a first plane.
 
[ [ someone will mention purchasing a Bo or Mooney as the "first and last plane" in 3... 2... 1... ] ]
 
I chose my little liberty for just the mission he is looking for.Av gas is a major expense ,as we all know when flying 6-8 times a month with some cross country's thrown in.I like the DA40 but can only afford the liberty.Good luck on your search
 
One thing to think about is you are building hours, not miles, so distance vs fuel cost should be considered. Just boring holes in the sky building time, you can run at a fairly low speed and fuel burn and that will help your cost per hour in any of these choices. Personally, I would look at an older 172, forget the glass for now, lot's of potential for costly mx, and you're not going anywhere anyway. ;) It's a fairly easy transition to glass once you've got your ratings, probably easier than learning in glass and going back to steam gauges. :D
 
I own 2 DA-40s, and am obviously biased. One thing you didn't mention is what part of the country do you live in? I ask this because the plane could be very uncomfortable in certain climates such as Texas where the heat will really make flying it half the year miserable. The heater in the pre 2007 models isn't very good either.

If you finance a 2005 (assuming you can find one) with 20% down your monthly mortgage will be about 600 month, then add in your tie down and insurance a reserve for your prop and engine each month and 200 a month in unexpected expenses and you should have a rough budget. Don't forget to account for taxes if you live in a state that has a sales tax or use tax that can add an easy 10K the first year in expenses. Also factor in 2500 a year for the annual which may even be a bit low.

I'd say you really need a budget of about 2K a month in all honesty to be able to afford the plane before flying a single hour for the first year of ownership.
 
sdpilot said:
I own 2 DA-40s, and am obviously biased. One thing you didn't mention is what part of the country do you live in? I ask this because the plane could be very uncomfortable in certain climates such as Texas where the heat will really make flying it half the year miserable. The heater in the pre 2007 models isn't very good either.

If you finance a 2005 (assuming you can find one) with 20% down your monthly mortgage will be about 600 month, then add in your tie down and insurance a reserve for your prop and engine each month and 200 a month in unexpected expenses and you should have a rough budget. Don't forget to account for taxes if you live in a state that has a sales tax or use tax that can add an easy 10K the first year in expenses. Also factor in 2500 a year for the annual which may even be a bit low.

I'd say you really need a budget of about 2K a month in all honesty to be able to afford the plane before flying a single hour for the first year of ownership.
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Can you expound on why it would be difficult to find a 2005 and prior DA-40 please?
 
Henning said:
Can you expound on why it would be difficult to find a 2005 and prior DA-40 please?
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Sure, the earliest plane with glass would be a 2005 and currently there are only 2 for sale in all of north america from what I can tell. One of which is most likely a scam (the one out of Texas) as it has been listed for a very long time and with very little information, and is priced unusually low. So you have one 2005 for sale and it has low hours so my guess is you are looking at a price of 160-175K for this plane. There just aren't a lot of DA-40s for sale out there at this price point with glass. If you move into the 2006 year you are now looking at about a 200K plane with the GFC700 AP instead of the KAP140. With that said the only option is the 2005 year to come close to the buyers budget of 150K, and I think that will be a challenge but possibly doable if the buyer is willing to take an engine near or past TBO

http://www.globalplanesearch.com/no...single/touring/da40_star.htm?sort=year&page=2
 
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shyampatel94 said:
I really like this Archer! Even though it doesn't have a glass cockpit but you can easily add a G500 right? What do you guys think? Something like this in the near future? What is the difference between this aircraft and a C172. Obviously the wings but what else? How does the Archer fly compared to the C172?

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...-ARCHER-III/2003-PIPER-ARCHER-III/1293853.htm
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Nice, and air conditioned. Yep, you can always retrofit a G-500, that's what it's made for.
 
First, high wing or low wing. Which do you prefer? I no preference or low wing it seems the DA is the best bet. If high wing well the the only choice in your group is the Cessna.

Second, why glass screen? Do you really need to spend extra money to get a glass screen for your mission? I would suggest not. You can get more bang for your buck if you remove this requirement, and have as much utility in your plane. Furthermore, it seems to me(base on my experience with a 2007 G1000 182) that the G1000 is somewhat prone to expensive gremlins, and you are going to find that $600 a month is going to be woefully an inadequate budget. Figuring everything in I think you are going to need to budget(off the top of my head) about 75 to 100 dollars and hour to fly the plane. Even at 50 dollars an hour for 30 hours a month that comes to 1500 dollars.
 
Henning said:
Nice, and air conditioned. Yep, you can always retrofit a G-500, that's what it's made for.
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Yeah! I really love the interior of it too! Seats look nice and comfortable.
 
douglas393 said:
First, high wing or low wing. Which do you prefer? I no preference or low wing it seems the DA is the best bet. If high wing well the the only choice in your group is the Cessna.

Second, why glass screen? Do you really need to spend extra money to get a glass screen for your mission? I would suggest not. You can get more bang for your buck if you remove this requirement, and have as much utility in your plane. Furthermore, it seems to me(base on my experience with a 2007 G1000 182) that the G1000 is somewhat prone to expensive gremlins, and you are going to find that $600 a month is going to be woefully an inadequate budget. Figuring everything in I think you are going to need to budget(off the top of my head) about 75 to 100 dollars and hour to fly the plane. Even at 50 dollars an hour for 30 hours a month that comes to 1500 dollars.
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I like flying different planes but I would rather own a low wing. And the glass is not mandatory but I would like it if it had glass. I really like these two archer's I put up there. Any thoughts about them?
 
shyampatel94 said:
So I want to know what you guys think the best first plane to buy between these three? Cessna 172, Da40, and Piper Archer?
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Three different airplanes with different capabilities and limitations. There are things one could do that the others could not, and things they can all do. To help you, I'd have to know what you need the plane to do -- payload, range, speed, etc. If more than one will do the job you need, then it's purely a matter of personal preference and whether or not you are willing to spend more than necessary to get what you need in order to get what you like.
 
shyampatel94 said:
I like flying different planes but I would rather own a low wing. And the glass is not mandatory but I would like it if it had glass. I really like these two archer's I put up there. Any thoughts about them?
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If you are going to non glass and like the 430 setup then I'd lean towards a 2003 DA40 as they can be found for around 100K you will also burn less GPH then the two planes you mentioned. Your acquisition cost is only part of the pricing you should be considering. Keep in mind the operating cost as well. I think the DA40 actually I know the DA-40 is cheaper to operate. Price out a few parts for each plane and you will see what I mean pretty quickly. For example compare the cost of replacing the door handle on each plane, an alternate static cable, rudder cables, fuel pumps, etc...
 
shyampatel94 said:
Anything else you guys would need to know? I really like the DA40 as of now! I love the looks of the plane and the visibility of the aircraft. Also love the stick.
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Then get it, because all three will do what you want. The only thing you might also want to consider is that you'll need a complex airplane for some of the commercial training and to take he commercial practical test, and only the Arrow is complex. AFAIK, Piper doesn't build them with the G1000, but they are building them with the G500 display and dual GNS430's, which is pretty close. See http://www.piper.com/home/pages/ArrowPriceStandardEquipment.cfm for more details. However, I don't see many 2004-later Arrows for sale -- not too many have been built in the last 10 years, and it's over $400K for a new one.
 
shyampatel94 said:
My budget is around 150k.
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For a 2004 or later version of the planes you want, that's pushing it. I'm only finding one 172 in your price range, no Arrows, and two DA40's.

I can spend 600 per month if I had my own plane to fly and spend on av gas.
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That's not going to buy you much flying time. In fact, that will barely pay for hangar, annual inspection, and insurance on a plane like the ones you want. I think you need to rethink just what you can afford within your budget. If you send me an email, I'll send you a paper I wrote on the costs of owning a basic 4-seat airplane like the ones in which you are interested. This may help you create a more realistic proposal to present to your father.
 
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