These guys are lucky. 177 down at Cedar mills

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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Looking at the photo, I think they are luck it was not far worse.
Crosswind landing blew them into the treeline.

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How does that even happen? It looks like the cockpit just "fell off" the wings. Glad the severity reported was only "injured", though.
 
I am not sure.
They said it was a crosswind but I know once you get below that treeline, there is no more crosswind. It is very noticeable how the wind just stops.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I am not sure.
They said it was a crosswind but I know once you get below that treeline, there is no more crosswind. It is very noticeable how the wind just stops.
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That is only true at some airports in certain conditions. Crosswinds can continue down to the surface, and trees and other obstacles can result in low level turbulence and unpredictable shear
 
TUPilot said:
That is only true at some airports in certain conditions. Crosswinds can continue down to the surface, and trees and other obstacles can result in low level turbulence and unpredictable shear
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At that particular airport it's quite true.
 
It was pretty breezy yesterday around here, and Cedar Mills does have water, a big tree on appr, and lots of surface changes to make things squirrely. Hope they recover ok. It looks like full flaps, but hard to tell for sure. May play a part in the outcome.
 
Interesting looking at the photo. I don't have an idea really of how durable planes are. I'd guess less so than cars.

How fast must someone be going to knock the front of the plane off like that?
Probably slower that I imagine but still that seems like it would take a lot of energy.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Interesting looking at the photo. I don't have an idea really of how durable planes are. I'd guess less so than cars.

How fast must someone be going to knock the front of the plane off like that?
Probably slower that I imagine but still that seems like it would take a lot of energy.
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Durable? Do you notice that there is a tree buried in there to the back of the doors?
 
mjburian said:
How does that even happen? It looks like the cockpit just "fell off" the wings. Glad the severity reported was only "injured", though.
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By looking at the tree he wanted to avoid instead of the gap between. Always look where you want to go, not what you want to miss.
 
Must have been one hell of a crosswind. I've landed at Cedar Mills dozens of times, sometimes in 20 mph direct gusty crosswinds ( in my old Cherokee 140), and never had too much problem dealing with it. The view out the windshield coming down final over the lake with that much crab thrown in sure gets your undivided attention focused however.
 
Henning said:
By looking at the tree he wanted to avoid instead of the gap between. Always look where you want to go, not what you want to miss.
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I've heard this many times and finally started to believe it when I tested in in a car (trying to avoid roadkill). Hopefully I have the wherewithal to remember it should I ever find myself in a situation that calls for it in the plane. (Hopefully, I never need it in a plane.)
 
Perhaps they had to cut someone out. That looks odd for running into the trees.
 
DFH65 said:
Perhaps they had to cut someone out. That looks odd for running into the trees.
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I'm looking at that tree in the middle of the cabin wondering how no one died. I suspect there are some rather serious injuries involved. Maybe it just wedged the cabin in half and tossed the seats to the side.:dunno:
 
DFH65 said:
Perhaps they had to cut someone out. That looks odd for running into the trees.
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+1 looks like the nose may have been moved to remove the victims. Hope all recover quickly.
 
1 one of the critical was upgraded to serious.
so I think 1 critical, 1 serious, and 2 minor
 
Homeland security?

WTF is wrong with this country? No - really. Where do they get off? In case you haven't noticed, this kind of shyte makes me livid with anger.
 
docmirror said:
Homeland security?

WTF is wrong with this country? No - really. Where do they get off? In case you haven't noticed, this kind of shyte makes me livid with anger.
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Don't get upset by what you see in the media, they don't know the difference between TSA and NTSB.
 
Henning said:
Don't get upset by what you see in the media, they don't know the difference between TSA and NTSB.
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Gosh, I hope you're right about that. I had the DHS call my airport a few weeks back asking who landed? Where's he from? What's he doing? Where did he go? And other horseshyte. The ops mgr told them to get bent, do your own investigation.
 
docmirror said:
Homeland security?

WTF is wrong with this country? No - really. Where do they get off? In case you haven't noticed, this kind of shyte makes me livid with anger.
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Ya gotta remember the media is playing to the uneducated sheep.
 
OK, I"m calmed down a bit.

Judging by the wing, It would say that's an original early 177 with the 150HP engine. Having 4 people on board, in summer, in TX, with full flaps, on a turf runway does not sound like a good recipe. Meh - maybe it's been upgraded. A lot of early 177s got the 180HP.
 
docmirror said:
OK, I"m calmed down a bit.

Judging by the wing, It would say that's an original early 177 with the 150HP engine. Having 4 people on board, in summer, in TX, with full flaps, on a turf runway does not sound like a good recipe. Meh - maybe it's been upgraded. A lot of early 177s got the 180HP.
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An N-number search shows it to be a 160hp Cardinal. I am curious to know if they were attempting to land from the east or west. I've personally witnessed pilots trying to land there to the east, downhill with a tailwind component from SW winds, and almost end up in the lake.

Prayers for the injured for speedy healing.
 
Neal Howard said:
An N-number search shows it to be a 160hp Cardinal. I am curious to know if they were attempting to land from the east or west. I've personally witnessed pilots trying to land there to the east, downhill with a tailwind component from SW winds, and almost end up in the lake.

Prayers for the injured for speedy healing.
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Yeah, my preference there was come in over the water and land to the west.
 
Wow that sucks, by looking at the pictures I'm guessing the South West end of field. Any idea of where the plane is based?
4 people/ under powered Cessna / grass strip / TX heat, not a good combo
 
My daughter and I landed there that morning. It was a direct crosswind and about 10-15 kts at about 11:00 am. But as others have said, it wasn't noticable once below the trees.

This one hit home. It's odd to see a serious accident where you had just flown.
 
JGoodish said:
Most in the media ARE the uneducated sheep.
JKG
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Many years ago I watched a C-177 crash at Charleston, WV. The pilot was given and accepted a land and hold short operation. He apparently tried to force the plane on the ground before it was ready and it developed into the nicest porpoise you would ever want to see. Eventually the nose gear collapsed and the plane slid off the runway. No injuries.

Someone told the news reporter that the pilot was practicing a purposing maneuver, and that the porpoise maneuver helps the plane stop quicker. And that reporter stood next to the plane while the camera man recorded, and said exactly that for all to hear and see on the evening news. Even using his hands to show the action while explaining that this maneuver uses the air and tires to reduce speed quicker than using only the brakes.

Reporters are so easy.... I should be ashamed of myself.......:rofl:
 
I am still not sure what I am seeing here. it is like an Escher staircase
The tree has penetrated but still seems fully outside. How the front pax got out of this is astounding.


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Probably a good thing there wasn't a strut to add to that equation.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Interesting looking at the photo. I don't have an idea really of how durable planes are. I'd guess less so than cars.

How fast must someone be going to knock the front of the plane off like that?
Probably slower that I imagine but still that seems like it would take a lot of energy.
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Its a bit different than a strutted Cessna for sure. All the engine loads are transmitted to the firewall to the instrument panel + the sides + the floor and sub floor. There is nothing in the middle of the windshield like many Piper have. There isn't a lot of structure in the door post area either.

I've seen pictures where the upper wing skins were buckled from inboard corner of the front spar to the fuel tank filler opening from flying through turbulence in nasty weather. They landed without a problem. No apparent damage to the fuselage. No fuel leaks either was pretty amazing to me.




 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
I am still not sure what I am seeing here. it is like an Escher staircase
The tree has penetrated but still seems fully outside. How the front pax got out of this is astounding.
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check out the seat--it's rotated. I imagine if the plane impacted a few more inches to the right, the passenger wouldn't have been so lucky.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Interesting looking at the photo. I don't have an idea really of how durable planes are. I'd guess less so than cars.

How fast must someone be going to knock the front of the plane off like that?
Probably slower that I imagine but still that seems like it would take a lot of energy.
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Punch your car door. Hurts doesn't it. Even on a prissy car.

Punch your airplane. You just left a couple thousand dollar dent.

They're pop cans. Seriously.
 
Another photo of scene. Establishes which end of runway the plane wound up at.

cedar+plane+crash2.jpg
 
AggieMike88 said:
Another photo of scene. Establishes which end of runway the plane wound up at.

cedar+plane+crash2.jpg
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wonder if he was landing west to east then...

I learned my lesson last time I was there.
In over the water, out over the water.
 
I'd suspected this was at the east end of the runway on the south side fairly near to "The Tree".

I too, learned a long time ago that it's much better to land uphill there, even if you've got several kts of tailwind component on your tail. Landing up the hill will slow you down plenty quickly as soon as you have the wheels down.
 
One thing I do at Cedar Mills is get completely stable on the approach and commit to land before I get below the trees. If I don't like my approach, decide early on to go around for another try. If I do commit, have an aiming point just head of the tree, and be on my landing speeds, but not rush the flare or touchdown. Nor save the landing if I bounce.

For those not familiar, the runway is oriented E-W and prevailing winds at this time of year are from the South. Not unusual to see pilots using a healthy crab or wing low technique as they come down on final approach, and the quickly negate that when below the tree tops.
 
If I am ever going to crash at Cedar Mills and it looks like I am not going to survive, I will do my damnedest to hit that God forsaken tree in hopes that the post crash fire will destroy it.
 
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