The TSA has an Honor Guard...

mikea said:
Imagine if the law creating the TSA wasn't done under a "less government" President.
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Why do you and others always have to make it about Bush? I was never a big supporter of his due to spending, and immigration. In addition, didn't Congress have to approve of all these measures, and the creation of the TSA. Just askin.


For the record. BUSH WAS NOT a small government President, nor was he a conservative, nor liked by many conservative R's. He was better than the alternatives, Gore, and Kerry, so lesser of two evils and all that. OK?

Who is allowing this growth and power of the TSA to occur during the LAST THREE YEARS? The Dems had control of both houses of Congress and the Admin for two frikin years. Why didn't they repeal the Patriot Act and dismantle the TSA?
 
Anthony said:
Why do you and others always have to make it about Bush? I was never a big supporter of his due to spending, and immigration. In addition, didn't Congress have to approve of all these measures, and the creation of the TSA. Just askin.


For the record. BUSH WAS NOT a small government President, nor was he a conservative, nor liked by many conservative R's. He was better than the alternatives, Gore, and Kerry, so lesser of two evils and all that. OK?
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That is not what everyone was hearing and saying while they were voting for him in two elections. It only started to be whispered when it came obvious that Bush was the disaster that his opponents said he was.

Anthony said:
Who is allowing this growth and power of the TSA to occur during the LAST THREE YEARS? The Dems had control of both houses of Congress and the Admin for two frikin years. Why didn't they repeal the Patriot Act and dismantle the TSA?
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Yeah disapointing that is. It is also disappointing that when subject actually gets brought up there is a huge group of people who scream about how the other side is giving into the terrorists and making America weak too.
 
The TSA is in DIRECT violation of the fourth amendment (article the sixth) of our Bill of Rights. You have [had?] the right to be able to move freely about the country without being searched unless the person has a warrant or at least some kind of probable cause. "If you have nothing to hide then you will have no problem with us stopping you in your daily travels and violating your privacy for no good reason other than you could be a potential terrorist.." This is a very silppery slope. It starts with the airport.. then schools.. libraries.. the end of your street.. We currently murder people without trial or jury [even citizens] just because the government identified them as terrorists.. And its OK to start treating everyday citizens like terrorists. We need to fight to get this country back! It is lost. This is not the country I believed in. "Freedom isn't free" Literally it isn't FREE and I don't mean money or sacrafice I mean that all we have fought for is gone without our civil rights. There is no freedom in America its a sham.

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Interesting article: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65565.html

Yeah disapointing that is. It is also disappointing that when subject actually gets brought up there is a huge group of people who scream about how the other side is giving into the terrorists and making America weak too.
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Scott, that's one part of the problem. The other is the group that says "anything for security" and insists that the "government keep us safe".

Friend of mine related a story recently about going through a TSA checkpoint with his kids. TSA demanded that the kids say their names and where they were traveling - father told TSA kids have been instructed not to speak to strangers. TSA then told the dad that they had to ask in order to determine whether the kids have been "kidnapped". That's straying a little bit from the TSA's mission.

There's a portion of the population that thinks that's a good thing. There's also a part of the population that thinks the TSA should be looking for "illegal immigrants". And some that don't see why the checkpoints shouldn't be used as a way to check for folks with warrants or parking tickets.
 
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Why does the TSA have an honor guard? To begin with, I think an organization needs to have some honor - only then can they have an honor guard.
 
Anthony said:
While I absolutely despise the TSA, and just about anything they represent, flying on an airline is VOLUNTARY. It is not illegal search, and seizure. If you don't want to go through the security measures, don't fly the airlines. Walk, drive, take the train, fly GA, ride a bike, etc.
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Do you feel it's reasonable?
 
Anthony said:
I am not saying that at all. Another poster indicated this violated a Constitutional search, and seizure law. I disagree.

Why isn't flying airlines voluntary? And please don't say because of your job. If you are really that against the security measures you can always get a job that doesn't require airline travel.

I am as annoyed at these make believe security measures, and the TSA as anyone, but please let's leave the Constitutional argument out of it.
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So what would you consider to be an unreasonable search of your person, house, papers, or effects?
 
p1l0t said:
If you don't like the way it is you can GET OUT! [Sarcastic]

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fgcason said:
But only if you go through approved procedures to get out. [Not sarcastic]
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Yeah. I almost forgot that scary where they DHS wants to screen people leaving the US and the US Border Patrol has decided they can stop anybody within 400 miles of a US border which is something like 40% of the country.
 
Anthony said:
While I absolutely despise the TSA, and just about anything they represent, flying on an airline is VOLUNTARY. It is not illegal search, and seizure. If you don't want to go through the security measures, don't fly the airlines. Walk, drive, take the train, fly GA, ride a bike, etc.
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Leaving your house is voluntary.

Walking down the street is voluntary.

So should the TSA be able to inspect you whenever you leave your house or walk down the street?

Does that not defeat the purpose of the fourth amendment?

Where in the fourth amendment does it give an exception to voluntary modes of transportation?

Can you tell me which modes of transportation are mandatory?

Your argument is beyond ridiculous.
 
dmspilot said:
Leaving your house is voluntary.

Walking down the street is voluntary.

So should the TSA be able to inspect you whenever you leave your house or walk down the street?

Does that not defeat the purpose of the fourth amendment?

Where in the fourth amendment does it give an exception to voluntary modes of transportation?

Can you tell me which modes of transportation are mandatory?

Your argument is beyond ridiculous.
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I don't like the TSA, and I believe government has overstepped its bounds with these methods of more than one means of transportation. There is a public perception that we need additional security to prevent further terrorism. What is your solution?

My argument is not ridiculous. Nobody is forcing you to fly. Last time I checked, I was not searched in any that way in any other mode of transport. I avoid the airlines as much as possible, that is one reason I bought a plane.
 
Anthony said:
Last time I checked, I was not searched in any that way in any other mode of transport.
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So it is okay to be searched at an airport because you are not searched at places other than airports. That is a circular argument.

Anthony said:
Nobody is forcing you to fly.
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That is NOT a valid argument. Nobody is forcing you to leave your house, nobody is forcing you to walk down the street, nobody is forcing you to own a car or drive it if you have one. Yet it would be illegal to be stopped and searched in the street or even to have your car searched without a warrant. Please tell me what voluntary has to do with it.
 
The reality is, our government only follows our Constitution when it's convenient for them.
 
mikea said:
Yeah. I almost forgot that scary where they DHS wants to screen people leaving the US and the US Border Patrol has decided they can stop anybody within 400 miles of a US border which is something like 40% of the country.
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If you think that's scary, they don't want you wandering around on your own inside the country. Try getting a job or going to the DMV without a physical mailing address sometime...They insist that you own a house or live in an apartment nowadays and if you don't, they start getting very nervous.
 
Anthony said:
I don't like the TSA, and I believe government has overstepped its bounds with these methods of more than one means of transportation. There is a public perception that we need additional security to prevent further terrorism. What is your solution?

My argument is not ridiculous. Nobody is forcing you to fly. Last time I checked, I was not searched in any that way in any other mode of transport. I avoid the airlines as much as possible, that is one reason I bought a plane.
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I don't think your argument is ridiculous. The public perception you mention is the problem. Many, many people think (because they don't comprehend the dangers) that the government is doing the right thing.

But one point that is worth considering - only because you don't believe you haven't been searched in other modes of transport doesn't mean that you weren't in fact searched, or even subjected to dangerous radiation. THAT is by far the worst about all this. Not only are other modes of transportation being searched, you might be searched unknowingly and without consent. That's a HUGE problem.
 
fgcason said:
If you think that's scary, they don't want you wandering around on your own inside the country. Try getting a job or going to the DMV without a physical mailing address sometime...They insist that you own a house or live in an apartment nowadays and if you don't, they start getting very nervous.
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I recommend a UPS or similar PO Box. They come with a physical address rather than a PO Box address. Works wonderfully with the DMV :)
 
Anthony said:
I don't like the TSA, and I believe government has overstepped its bounds with these methods of more than one means of transportation. There is a public perception that we need additional security to prevent further terrorism. What is your solution?

My argument is not ridiculous. Nobody is forcing you to fly. Last time I checked, I was not searched in any that way in any other mode of transport. I avoid the airlines as much as possible, that is one reason I bought a plane.
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Yes it is.
 
fgcason said:
If you think that's scary, they don't want you wandering around on your own inside the country. Try getting a job or going to the DMV without a physical mailing address sometime...They insist that you own a house or live in an apartment nowadays and if you don't, they start getting very nervous.
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I'm sure you know about it but... http://www.earthclassmail.com/
 
Wait, we never covered what TSA has to do with Honor in the first place...?
 
Matthew said:
I wonder if they have a band, too.
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I dont' think they do. But I did hear that they're putting together a precision flight team similar to the Thunderbirds. It's rumored that they're naming them the Chicken$hits.
 
Anthony said:
Not Constitutionally.
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"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Yes, it is.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Why does the TSA have an honor guard? To begin with, I think an organization needs to have some honor - only then can they have an honor guard.
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They have no honor. If they did, they'd work somewhere else.

denverpilot said:
The reality is, our government only follows our Constitution when it's convenient for them.
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As shown by the many government programs that are not allowed by Article 1, Section 8 and thereby reserved to the states or the people by Amendment 10.

roncachamp said:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Yes, it is.
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Exactly.
 
ScottM said:
They do. But there will be a long line to get into it and no one will be buried with their shoes or belt on.
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He shoots!

HE SCORES! :D :goofy:
 
Jf1450 said:
Who was it that said "those who shall sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither"?

Our forefathers are rolling over in their graves.
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"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
 
roncachamp said:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Yes, it is.
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Let's be clear. I am against the TSA, and their "security" procedures. I have written all my elected officials about it as I think it will bleed over into GA.

However, as long as we VONLUNTARILY submit to these procedures, it is not a Constitutional issue. Maybe an attorney could comment, but we'll proably get "It Depends" or several different opinions.

Don't like it? Don't fly the airlines until they change the procedures, and lobby your elected officials to change the process. Whining about it just seems like a waste of time. Maybe you should join the "occupiers" who are whining about their awful lives. Instead of whining do something like I did.
 
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