The Straight Dope on the Vital Ketchup on a Hot Dog question

Normally I'd get all excited about the Philistines who insist that ketchup is a proper hot dog condiment... but now that the Packers are in the playoffs, I have forsworn hot dogs of any stripe and topping and have focused entirely on consuming that most wonderful sausage of the promised land: bratwurst.
Bratwurst: best served with a cold New Glarus Spotted Cow and a Packers victory.
GO PACK GO!
 
River Grove hot dog called best in U.S.

Gene’s & Jude’s Red Hot Stand has a pretty decent product. The lines — 50 to 60 people deep — at the River Grove hot dog spot surely attest to that.

Frankly speaking, it’s the best. Every Day with Rachel Ray attests to that.

The magazine’s March issue names the 60-year-old stand, at 2720 River Rd., the best hot dog stand in the country, following the blog Serious Eats’ taste test of dogs from 64 stands across the U.S.

The stand, where ketchup on franks is a no-no, has won more fans since the results were announced last week, said Dan Ciancio, general manager.

http://www.suntimes.com/3740592-417/river-grove-hot-dog-called-best-in-u.s.
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See? By implication, Rachel Ray says ketchup on a hot dog is not yummy.
 
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I was about to say she was dead to me but it's not ketchup. I'll let her slide.

If you want to get your bearings on the world, Diane Sawyer says there's no better place than Chicago.

"Chicago is the place we can go and get that," the anchor of "ABC World News" said Tuesday from her New York office. "You sit and talk and are reminded what really connects to people where they live and what matters."

Sawyer is headed to town this week. She is set to be the keynote speaker Thursday at the Chicago Network's 22nd Annual Women in the Forefront Luncheon at the Hilton Chicago. She also plans to anchor her newscast from here that night.

That Sawyer sees wisdom in Chicago may or may not have to do the fact that, although Brian Williams' "NBC Nightly News" is the No. 1 network newscast nationally, "World News" is the broadcast to beat here. It also may have to do with the fact that she likes hot dogs, although you might not want to know the condiment she favors.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/columnists/ct-biz-0406-phil-sawyer-20110406,0,6045418.column
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Irony: A photo decrying ketchup on hotdogs showing tomatoes on hotdogs instead.

I don't care what you use to garnish your dead animal products. I'd figure you all like ketchup because it looks like blood.

Cased meats are utterly disgusting. You get the worst cuts and Odin only knows what else. They can throw in whatever they like, since you can't see it.

The two things you don't want to see being made: sausages and legislation
 
steingar said:
Irony: A photo decrying ketchup on hotdogs showing tomatoes on hotdogs instead.

I don't care what you use to garnish your dead animal products. I'd figure you all like ketchup because it looks like blood.

Cased meats are utterly disgusting. You get the worst cuts and Odin only knows what else. They can throw in whatever they like, since you can't see it.

The two things you don't want to see being made: sausages and legislation
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Dead vegetables are different from dead animals how? Plants signal on an EEG and even "scream" on them when you cut them. Vegetarians are just as much of murderers as carnivores...
 
Henning said:
Dead vegetables are different from dead animals how? Plants signal on an EEG and even "scream" on them when you cut them. Vegetarians are just as much of murderers as carnivores...
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Bull$hit and you know it. I eat nothing with parents or a face.
 
steingar said:
Bull$hit and you know it. I eat nothing with parents or a face.
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Actually, they have done studies, and plants do emit electrical signals, and the signals change when stressed.
 
EdFred said:
Actually, they have done studies, and plants do emit electrical signals, and the signals change when stressed.
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Membrane ion potentials change for all sorts of things in plants, including drought, pests, and heat stress. What they lack is a nervous system, a prerequisite for feeling pain. Put another way, chop a plant in half and see how much it screams. Now, try cutting any food animal in half similarly.
 
steingar said:
No duh, Sherlock. Ion potentials change for all sorts of things in plants. What they lack is a nervous system, a prerequisite for feeling pain. Put another way, chop a plant in half and see how much it screams. Now, try cutting any food animal in half similarly.
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It was beyond simple stimuli, read up on in, it's quite interesting actually.

Either way, if we weren't supposed to eat meat we either
1) Wouldn't have been created that way (for the believers out there)
or
2) Wouldn't have evolved the way we did. (for the non believers)

We have binocular vision, just like every other predator out there
We have canines made for tearing flesh, like every other predator out there.

If we were supposed to be vegetarians our eyes would be on the sides of our head to give us near 360° vision, and our mouths would be filled with molars for grinding plant food. At the very least we are omnivorous. But we are not supposed to be vegetarian. As our intelligence developed, our molars actually shrunk in size, the correlation being that eating meat made us smarter.
 
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If carnivors eat meat and vegetarians eat vegetables, then what do humanitarians eat?
 
EdFred said:
It was beyond simple stimuli, read up on in, it's quite interesting actually.
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Beyond simple stimuli, far less than pain reception.

EdFred said:
Either way, if we weren't supposed to eat meat we either
1) Wouldn't have been created that way (for the believers out there)
or
2) Wouldn't have evolved the way we did. (for the non believers).
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We are relatively un-evolved, in point of fact. We are generalists, and can eat a variety of foods.

EdFred said:
We have binocular vision, just like every other predator out there
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Utter B.S. We evolved binocular vision for climbing trees, just like other arboreal primates. That's why things like Chimps and gorillas look so human.

EdFred said:
We have canines made for tearing flesh, like every other predator out there.
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We also have well developed molars, which tend to be lost in carnivores. Indeed, true carnivores (like cats) have very simple digestive systems, and jaws that only open and close, but don't move from side to side. Our jaws move side to side (well, most of us) and we have a very complex digestive system for metabolizing vegetable material.

EdFred said:
If we were supposed to be vegetarians our eyes would be on the sides of our head to give us near 360° vision, and our mouths would be filled with molars for grinding plant food.
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Most apes eat a nearly completely vegetarian diet, yet have nearly the same dentition. You are comparing humans, which evolved from arboreal animals, to things like deer, which evolved from grassland animals. Our anatomy is determined by ecological niche, and not diet.

EdFred said:
At the very least we are omnivorous. But we are not supposed to be vegetarian. As our intelligence developed, our molars actually shrunk in size, the correlation being that eating meat made us smarter.
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Again, utter nonsense. If we were supposed to be carnivorous, we wouldn't be able to eat vegetable protein and get nourishment out of it. We are indeed generalists.

That said, the amount of protein needed for the average adult is in the neighborhood of about 21 grams. I think that can be found in about half a hotdog, though I admit to potential for error on this point, since I haven't looked at or purchased a package of hotdogs in decades. Thus you don't at all need very much protein, thus you don't need much meat. And for the most part it is utterly full of fat, far too much for the average diet.

Seriously, eat what you like. But don't try and justify it with biology. That is at best a loosing proposition.
 
Aboreal evolution?

I guess that's why homo habilis had a tail, along with Lucy, and all of our other ancestors. Oh wait, they didn't. Yeah, because they evolved on the ground. And we are also on completely different branches of the evolutionary tree than the tree dwelling primates. Squirrels are arboreal and have eyes on the sides of their head. They certainly get around just fine in the trees, so the argument of binocular vision for being a tree dweller is crap.

Nice try, you fail.


It's utter nonsense that we are omnivores?

PS - chimps also eat meat.
 
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ScottM said:
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Pretty interesting. And if you watch to the end, you'll see that they put only mustard on the dog, and didn't pollute it with ketchup. So there you have it: Definitive proof from the makers of hot dogs that they were not made to be served with ketchup.

-Rich
 
EdFred said:
PS - chimps also eat meat.
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They'll smoke, too, if you let them...

chimp_smoking.jpg
 
RJM62 said:
Pretty interesting. And if you watch to the end, you'll see that they put only mustard on the dog, and didn't pollute it with ketchup. So there you have it: Definitive proof from the makers of hot dogs that they were not made to be served with ketchup.

-Rich
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But the guy narrating was British, and they spell things funny too.
 
EdFred said:
Aboreal evolution?

I guess that's why homo habilis had a tail, along with Lucy, and all of our other ancestors. Oh wait, they didn't. Yeah, because they evolved on the ground.
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Are you now saying that all of the great old world apes are not arboreal because they lack prehensile grasping tails? I do know a few people who might disagree with you.

EdFred said:
And we are also on completely different branches of the evolutionary tree than the tree dwelling primates. Squirrels are arboreal and have eyes on the sides of their head. They certainly get around just fine in the trees, so the argument of binocular vision for being a tree dweller is crap.
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Very true, as do many lizards and snakes. Nonetheless, many animals that need a great deal of depth perception develop binocular vision. Many reptiles are primary predators in their niches, and have never developed binocular vision. You might correctly argue that they are sit and wait predators, and therefore didn't need it, but I would counter it by saying that most mammalian predators are also ambush predators. Most eat mostly carrion.

EdFred said:
Nice try, you fail.


It's utter nonsense that we are omnivores?
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Not at all. And I agree that we are indeed omnivorous, but that our diets do not need the infusion of animal protein that most of us (well, you) get on a daily basis. Most societies consume only a fraction of the animal protein we do, and live just fine with it.

Keep in mind that you live in the only country in the history of the world where the poor are fat.

EdFred said:
PS - chimps also eat meat.
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True, if they can get it, which they do very rarely. I suspect that if they ate animal protein at the rate we do they would sicken and die, though I have no proof of that at all.
 
steingar said:
Bull$hit and you know it. I eat nothing with parents or a face.
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Seriously, no, it's very accurate. Plants have parents as well, procreation is just in a different form. Plants have DNA as do we. Plants have male and female reproductive organs just as we. Plants "reach for the sun" even. You can kid yourself into believing you aren't a murderous beast, but you are... Just because a plant isn't like you doesn't mean it's life is any less valuable.
 
Henning said:
Seriously, no, it's very accurate. Plants have parents as well, procreation is just in a different form. Plants have DNA as do we. Plants have male and female reproductive organs just as we. Plants "reach for the sun" even. You can kid yourself into believing you aren't a murderous beast, but you are... Just because a plant isn't like you doesn't mean it's life is any less valuable.
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Henning, did you take a stupid pill today? First, most of the plants in commercial production are genetically engineered hybrids with multiple genomes. Second, many are sterile. Ever seen a seed for a banana? How about a rose? Of course not, they're both sterile, and are reproduced from cuttings, and thus have no sexual reproduction and no actual parents, just clone sources.

Second, phototropism is a relatively simple process compared to even the simplest behaviors of any motile metazoan.

Third, many (if not most) of the plants consumed by humans are not even killed in the process. Many are the fruit, leaves, or other parts of the plant that can be harvested without killing the parental organism.

Lastly, have you ever washed your hands with soap? You murderous farging bastich! You killed literally millions of bacteria! They all have DNA as do we. Bacteria have reproductive organs. Bacteria "reach for the sun" even. And you didn't even kill them so you could eat them, you frakking cold-hearted murderer!

Ever cleaned your bathroom? The question isn't rhetorical in your case. You'll be murdering millions of fungal cells that are every bit as sophisticated in their biology, genetics, and life cycle as plants.

Ever swab the deck (or had them swabbed, being the big time captain and all...)? Millions of Vibrio and other marine bacteria, killed just for being where they are. You violent offender you.
 
steingar said:
Henning, did you take a stupid pill today? First, most of the plants in commercial production are genetically engineered hybrids with multiple genomes. Second, many are sterile. Ever seen a seed for a banana? How about a rose? Of course not, they're both sterile, and are reproduced from cuttings, and thus have no sexual reproduction and no actual parents, just clone sources.

Second, phototropism is a relatively simple process compared to even the simplest behaviors of any motile metazoan.

Third, many (if not most) of the plants consumed by humans are not even killed in the process. Many are the fruit, leaves, or other parts of the plant that can be harvested without killing the parental organism.

Lastly, have you ever washed your hands with soap? You murderous farging bastich! You killed literally millions of bacteria! They all have DNA as do we. Bacteria have reproductive organs. Bacteria "reach for the sun" even. And you didn't even kill them so you could eat them, you frakking cold-hearted murderer!

Ever cleaned your bathroom? The question isn't rhetorical in your case. You'll be murdering millions of fungal cells that are every bit as sophisticated in their biology, genetics, and life cycle as plants.

Ever swab the deck (or had them swabbed, being the big time captain and all...)? Millions of Vibrio and other marine bacteria, killed just for being where they are. You violent offender you.
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??? I am not the one who has a problem with killing, it's part of the natural order of things, everything dies, no sense in wasting it. Not only do I kill bacteria, molds and fungii with abandon, I have raised and butchered my own livestock, nothing better than cooking a still warm tenderloin, forget that "aged beef" stuff. Heck I wouldn't even have much of a qualm with killing most people. One day I will die, and preferably I will be eaten by carnivorous mammals and birds rather than bacteria and worms (although it's the bacteria in mammals that does the digesting).
 
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Henning said:
??? I am not the one who has a problem with killing, it's part of the natural order of things, everything dies, no sense in wasting it. Not only do I kill bacteria, molds and fungii with abandon, I have raised and butchered my own livestock, nothing better than cooking a still warm tenderloin, forget that "aged beef" stuff. Heck I wouldn't even have much of a qualm with killing most people. One day I will die, and preferably I will be eaten by carnivorous mammals and birds rather than bacteria and worms (although it's the bacteria in mammals that does the digesting).
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I never said I have a problem with killing, I have a problem with eating. Stuff makes me fat.
 
if i may interject to this riveting conversation...
first and foremost to the original inspiration of this thread, i personnally dislike ketchup on anything, including hot dogs. the rare case of my ingestion of the substance is a result of the even more unusual case that im eating fast food, and they didnt care that i said "plain" in my order.
as for plants vs animals...
my older sister had decided in her late high-school years to go vegan. 20 or so years later, her doctor basically told her to suck it up and eat some red meat. i do not know the specifics, but here i am getting the last word after many complaints over the smell of "burning flesh" all those years ago.
everything needs to be balanced...too much of anything, even water, is potentially harmful. humans are OMNIVORous for a reason. just my $0.02
 
mikea said:
I was about to say she was dead to me but it's not ketchup. I'll let her slide.
If you want to get your bearings on the world, Diane Sawyer says there's no better place than Chicago.

"Chicago is the place we can go and get that," the anchor of "ABC World News" said Tuesday from her New York office. "You sit and talk and are reminded what really connects to people where they live and what matters."

Sawyer is headed to town this week. She is set to be the keynote speaker Thursday at the Chicago Network's 22nd Annual Women in the Forefront Luncheon at the Hilton Chicago. She also plans to anchor her newscast from here that night.

That Sawyer sees wisdom in Chicago may or may not have to do the fact that, although Brian Williams' "NBC Nightly News" is the No. 1 network newscast nationally, "World News" is the broadcast to beat here. It also may have to do with the fact that she likes hot dogs, although you might not want to know the condiment she favors.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...6045418.column
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Ineresting you should quote that. Leslie's actually going to be attending that luncheon today, and we had already had the discussion about ketchup on the hot dogs, and she was very glad that Ms. Sawyer did NOT list it as her condiment of choice!

I noted in New Orleans a bunch of shirts that said "I put Ketchup on my Ketchup." Whassup wi'dat?
 
airbornejohnny said:
if i may interject to this riveting conversation...
first and foremost to the original inspiration of this thread, i personnally dislike ketchup on anything, including hot dogs. the rare case of my ingestion of the substance is a result of the even more unusual case that im eating fast food, and they didnt care that i said "plain" in my order.
as for plants vs animals...
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Sucks for you, ketchup is good stuff. Can't say anything about the current "dog" dispute, since I don't eat the disgusting things, but I put ketchup on all kinds of things. I put some on my egg sandwich I'm going to have for lunch today.

airbornejohnny said:
my older sister had decided in her late high-school years to go vegan. 20 or so years later, her doctor basically told her to suck it up and eat some red meat. i do not know the specifics, but here i am getting the last word after many complaints over the smell of "burning flesh" all those years ago.
everything needs to be balanced...too much of anything, even water, is potentially harmful. humans are OMNIVORous for a reason. just my $0.02
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I feel sorry for you, since you have idiot doctors where you live who know utterly nothing about nutrition. I haven't eaten meat in a quarter century, and those who've met me can attest that starving to death is not exactly a big problem for me. Kinda the opposite, actually...
 
steingar said:
Sucks for you, ketchup is good stuff. Can't say anything about the current "dog" dispute, since I don't eat the disgusting things, but I put ketchup on all kinds of things. I put some on my egg sandwich I'm going to have for lunch today.



I feel sorry for you, since you have idiot doctors where you live who know utterly nothing about nutrition. I haven't eaten meat in a quarter century, and those who've met me can attest that starving to death is not exactly a big problem for me. Kinda the opposite, actually...
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That egg had parents!!!!!
 
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