The Shootist Site

I think he's saying the price of scrap brass will drop.
 
Just out of curiosity, Why doesn't the Government reload this brass themselves? I bet there could be some pretty significant savings from purchasing new ammo. Is there a reliability issue with reloads? I've only reloaded shot shells, so I really don't know about rifle ammo.
 
The gov't doesn't do this kind of operation ... it would end up being contracted out and there would go the cost savings. I used to reload practice ammo when part of the NAS Miramar Rifle and Pistol team, but mostly as a hobby/diversion/excuse to drink beer and talk shooting. For competition, there was all the Lake City Match ammo we could ever think to burn up.

re: reliability, no issue there. In fact, for the most part, one can reload more reliable, more accurate ammo and match it to your particular rifle than factory ammo. However, the best we could do, IIRC, was hope to equal the performance of the match ammo mentioned above.
 
Why don't those companies buy the scrap brass, melt it down, and make the bullets themselves??? I'm really scratching my head here. People are freaking out because the gov't isn't giving away spent casings, purchased with taxpayer money, so private companies can take said casings, reload them, sell for a profit? Thus forcing private companies to make their OWN rounds?? How is that the end of the world??? Isn't that what, say, Remington does for .22 rimfires?

Oh, well, no matter, angry gun people managed to thwart the evil designs of the ZOG once again.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Why don't those companies buy the scrap brass, melt it down, and make the bullets themselves??? I'm really scratching my head here. People are freaking out because the gov't isn't giving away spent casings, purchased with taxpayer money, so private companies can take said casings, reload them, sell for a profit? Thus forcing private companies to make their OWN rounds?? How is that the end of the world??? Isn't that what, say, Remington does for .22 rimfires?

Oh, well, no matter, angry gun people managed to thwart the evil designs of the ZOG once again.
Click to expand...

Did you read the article at all? The private companies don't get the casings for free--they *BUY* them from the Government. The folks are upset because suddenly the government was saying that they would no longer sell the casings unless they were "mutilated" first effectively destroying their ability to reload the ammo.

It sounds like they worked the issue out, thankfully. You must understand why people were frustrated since they paid for the brass and suddenly the government says they must destroy them first. Considering how there is nothing illegal about that brass in the first place, it was rather unjustified and concerning.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Why don't those companies buy the scrap brass, melt it down, and make the bullets themselves??? I'm really scratching my head here. People are freaking out because the gov't isn't giving away spent casings, purchased with taxpayer money, so private companies can take said casings, reload them, sell for a profit? Thus forcing private companies to make their OWN rounds?? How is that the end of the world??? Isn't that what, say, Remington does for .22 rimfires?

Oh, well, no matter, angry gun people managed to thwart the evil designs of the ZOG once again.
Click to expand...

Point of clarification based on Pete Peeve:

"Bullets" are the projectiles and usually made of lead with or without a metal jacket and perhaps phenolic or plastic ballistic tip.

"Brass" is the typical material for casings that holds the charge and the bullet in place.

A "Round" refers to the set of casing, propellent charge, and projectile ready for insertion and firing.

When someone asks for "more bullets" on the range I cringe and then watch them very carefully.
 
dmccormack said:
Point of clarification based on Pete Peeve:

"Bullets" are the projectiles and usually made of lead with or without a metal jacket and perhaps phenolic or plastic ballistic tip.

"Brass" is the typical material for casings that holds the charge and the bullet in place.

A "Round" refers to the set of casing, propellent charge, and projectile ready for insertion and firing.

When someone asks for "more bullets" on the range I cringe and then watch them very carefully.
Click to expand...

Meh, just like clip and magazine, yes, it's not the absolute correct term, but you know exactly what they mean.

Personally I'm more peeved by the folks who don't clean up their brass after a day at the range. :nono: We've almost lost the local rifle range a few times because of the messes people left.
 
dmccormack said:
Point of clarification based on Pete Peeve:

"Bullets" are the projectiles and usually made of lead with or without a metal jacket and perhaps phenolic or plastic ballistic tip.

"Brass" is the typical material for casings that holds the charge and the bullet in place.

A "Round" refers to the set of casing, propellent charge, and projectile ready for insertion and firing.

When someone asks for "more bullets" on the range I cringe and then watch them very carefully.
Click to expand...

So what's a cartridge? That's the word I've always used for what you're calling a round.
 
wbarnhill said:
...

Personally I'm more peeved by the folks who don't clean up their brass after a day at the range. :nono: We've almost lost the local rifle range a few times because of the messes people left.
Click to expand...

If I were planning on using a gun during a robbery, I would go to the local gun range, watch where a few spent cases landed from the same pistol, grab them, pick up my empties at the scene of the crime, and then drop the ones from the gun range.

That right there is incentive enough to clean up after yourself.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
If I were planning on using a gun during a robbery, I would go to the local gun range, watch where a few spent cases landed from the same pistol, grab them, pick up my empties at the scene of the crime, and then drop the ones from the gun range.

That right there is incentive enough to clean up after yourself.
Click to expand...
That would be a lot of damn work and would accomplish little to nothing. Seriously what is the point? You still have the gun which fired the bullet. They can generally match the bullet to the barrel which fired it.

Of course you now have the idiots in Cali pushing through a tagging law which ail require handguns to tag the casing with a unique Id when fired. Then, I suspect peope will become paranoid over their brass which is not always easy to find and pickup. Of course anyone planning on using a gun for no good will just grind off the stamper.
 
The Gov. only uses .223/.50BBR/ .45ACP and a few rounds bought off the open market for special purposes. (like 9MM pistol)

for those of you who are reloaders, check the cost of new brass, and once shot military. the hype over the Obama gun laws that are expected, have run the cost of reloading supplies off the scale.

I have a cruise box neatly stacked of once shot military .06 that will last me a life time reloading my 8Mm/06. 25.06, 30.06, 7mm/06, 45acp,

I guess the theory is, if you dry up the ammo supliers, the guns on the street will be useless.

But it ain't working,,,, Walmart has plenty China made ammo on the shelf ready to go onto the streets of all our cities.

want a great investment? try CCI industries, back orders into next year.
 
Last edited:
jesse said:
That would be a lot of damn work and would accomplish little to nothing. Seriously what is the point? You still have the gun which fired the bullet. They can generally match the bullet to the barrel which fired it.

....
Click to expand...

I don't know if it picking up a few casings at the local range would be a lot of work. Also, they won't have the bullet if I go to the further effort of digging it out. Additionally, evidence obtained from bullets is being shown to be unreliable - it's the casing where the more reliable information comes from, even though there are starting to be demonstrated problems with that, as well (it's one of the bigger reasons that national database on ballistics information idea was scrapped).
 
all bullets made in the future will have an ID tag. which can be traced to who sold it and who bought it.

same with powder. the ID tag will be detectable on the guy/thing what got shot.
 
Tom-D said:
all bullets made in the future will have an ID tag. which can be traced to who sold it and who bought it.

same with powder. the ID tag will be detectable on the guy/thing what got shot.
Click to expand...

The easier option is going to be micro engraving the weapon serial on the firing pin, unless you pick up the brass after yourself, they'll be able to trace the weapon, and it won't be seen as more of a privacy intrusion than current gun registration laws.

When folks have to show ID to get ammo like they do to get Sudafed, you'll see more people going to reloading (which wouldn't matter if they go the micro engraving route).

But that's just my opinion, and I'm not going any further on the topic since this is HT and not SZ ;)
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
I don't know if it picking up a few casings at the local range would be a lot of work. Also, they won't have the bullet if I go to the further effort of digging it out. Additionally, evidence obtained from bullets is being shown to be unreliable - it's the casing where the more reliable information comes from, even though there are starting to be demonstrated problems with that, as well (it's one of the bigger reasons that national database on ballistics information idea was scrapped).
Click to expand...

You're proposing that your bank robbing method would be:
1) Pick up casings of same caliber from gun range
2) Enter bank
3) Shoot gun
4) Find casing
5) Drop fake casing
6) Go pry your bullet out of your victim

All while a bunch of people are watching and the SWAT team is coming through the front door? ...Seriously... That is the most unrealistic thing I've heard in some time.

First off, robbing a bank with force and guns is just retarded. Second off -- if you needed to use the gun you'd have no time to do any of the above and you'd have 300 witnesses.

Shoot your gun..pick up your casing..drop fake casing..and then go remove your bullet...christ...
 
jesse said:
Did you read the article at all? The private companies don't get the casings for free--they *BUY* them from the Government. The folks are upset because suddenly the government was saying that they would no longer sell the casings unless they were "mutilated" first effectively destroying their ability to reload the ammo.

It sounds like they worked the issue out, thankfully. You must understand why people were frustrated since they paid for the brass and suddenly the government says they must destroy them first. Considering how there is nothing illegal about that brass in the first place, it was rather unjustified and concerning.
Click to expand...

Relax, relax, yes I read the article. Yes, they buy the casings from the gov't. And they could STILL have bought the casings from the gov't. The companies would then have required an additional step or two to continue to make the "bullet holders", the cost of which could easily be recovered from the purchasers.

Remember, non-shooters paid for that brass too. To the extent that putting this stuff on the open market to fetch top-dollar will claw back some of my taxes spent on the brass in the first place, then I really don't care if it's Chinamen or American ammo makers buying the stuff.

Too bad people don't get this exercised over stuff that matters, like education.
 
dmccormack said:
Point of clarification based on Pete Peeve:

"Bullets" are the projectiles and usually made of lead with or without a metal jacket and perhaps phenolic or plastic ballistic tip.

"Brass" is the typical material for casings that holds the charge and the bullet in place.

A "Round" refers to the set of casing, propellent charge, and projectile ready for insertion and firing.

When someone asks for "more bullets" on the range I cringe and then watch them very carefully.
Click to expand...


Good point Dan. And the entire set up casings with bullets and powder is the cartridge. I learned this in reviewing evidence with a ballistics expert from the County Detective's Office
 
AdamZ said:
Good point Dan. And the entire set up casings with bullets and powder is the cartridge. I learned this in reviewing evidence with a ballistics expert from the County Detective's Office
Click to expand...
And do casings ALWAYS have to be made with metal or other rigid materials??
 
flyersfan31 said:
Relax, relax, yes I read the article. Yes, they buy the casings from the gov't. And they could STILL have bought the casings from the gov't. The companies would then have required an additional step or two to continue to make the "bullet holders", the cost of which could easily be recovered from the purchasers.

Remember, non-shooters paid for that brass too. To the extent that putting this stuff on the open market to fetch top-dollar will claw back some of my taxes spent on the brass in the first place, then I really don't care if it's Chinamen or American ammo makers buying the stuff.

Too bad people don't get this exercised over stuff that matters, like education.
Click to expand...

Sigh. You still don't get it. The military was not saying that they can get better dollar from someone else for the raw brass -- instead they were saying that the casings must be destroyed before selling them.

You don't find it kind of redundant to destroy casings so that you can sell it to an ammo manufacturer that will then produce the exact same thing again? The casings are not special nor are they illegal but yet the government felt that a private company shouldn't be able to buy them intact.

The fact of the matter is -- this would have really screwed up their ability to reload the ammo. The ammo is not illegal and there is no reason that the government should insist it be destroyed before they take possession. That is wasted tax dollars.

flyersfan31 said:
Too bad people don't get this exercised over stuff that matters, like education.
Click to expand...
Sigh. If you were the guy reloading this ammo for a living I think you would feel that it did matter. The attitude that "it isn't me being screwed so I don't care" is one of our biggest problems. Aviation hurts from the same thing.
 
smigaldi said:
And do casings ALWAYS have to be made with metal or other rigid materials??
Click to expand...
No -- but I think you'd have a hard time substituting different materials on a lot of these high pressure calibers. It'd be really difficult to achieve 54,000 PSI in a casing that wasn't metal or rigid.
 
I seem to recall some articles a few years past regarding caseless ammo ... the propellant is formed into some kind of solid and doesn't need a case. Can't recall what/where/when etc right now tho
 
gkainz said:
I seem to recall some articles a few years past regarding caseless ammo ... the propellant is formed into some kind of solid and doesn't need a case. Can't recall what/where/when etc right now tho
Click to expand...

Seems that would gunk up the gun a lot more than a casing would. I like cleaning my gun, but that would get old pretty quickly.
 
jesse said:
No -- but I think you'd have a hard time substituting different materials on a lot of these high pressure calibers. It'd be really difficult to achieve 54,000 PSI in a casing that wasn't metal or rigid.
Click to expand...
True.

But I was thinking of the old Civil War era minnie-balls. The cartridges for those were paper.

you removed a cartridge which held the minnie-ball and powder, tore it open while holding the ball poured the powder into the barrell, added the ball, tapped it down, cocked the hammer, put on a cap and then you were ready to fire.
 
smigaldi said:
True.

But I was thinking of the old Civil War era minnie-balls. The cartridges for those were paper.

you removed a cartridge which held the minnie-ball and powder, tore it open while holding the ball poured the powder into the barrell, added the ball, tapped it down, cocked the hammer, put on a cap and then you were ready to fire.
Click to expand...
That was my first thought as well when you said that... old paper cartridges.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
If I were planning on using a gun during a robbery, I would go to the local gun range, watch where a few spent cases landed from the same pistol, grab them, pick up my empties at the scene of the crime, and then drop the ones from the gun range.
Click to expand...

Why not just use a shotgun?


Trapper John
 
gkainz said:
I seem to recall some articles a few years past regarding caseless ammo ... the propellant is formed into some kind of solid and doesn't need a case. Can't recall what/where/when etc right now tho
Click to expand...

The M1 Abrams 120mm Main Gun uses a "caseless" round which is completely burned during firing.

See http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/120.htm for a good discussion.
 
Dan - cool info, but I guess I was limiting my thought process to common hand-held center fire handgun/rifle calibers. I would think the reloading market might be pretty narrow in the 105mm and up calibers? :D
 
jesse said:
Sigh. If you were the guy reloading this ammo for a living I think you would feel that it did matter. The attitude that "it isn't me being screwed so I don't care" is one of our biggest problems. Aviation hurts from the same thing.
Click to expand...

No. My attitude is "why don't people worry about stuff of major importance instead of little sideshows affecting a small portion of the populace."
 
FWIW, the FBI uses alot of .40 or at least the HRT teams do, and a whole lot of .308.

As far as 'caseless' rounds, the only ones that I'm familiar with are black powder guns that use the pyrodex pellets. It's basically a pre-formed chunk of black powder. Makes loading the gun a whole lot easier.

For those of us in aviation that enjoy shooting and firearms as well, it's getting more difficult to enjoy those hobbies with all the new g'ment regulations. And it's not the g'ment that's buying all the guns and reloading supplies, it's pretty much civilian in nature. We're getting lots of calls from people who tell us that they have never owned a gun, but just want to get one. And they're trying to buy ammo to have for their new purchases.

The NRA is now well over 3 million in membership, I'm not sure I'd call that a small portion of the populace :smilewinkgrin:
 
flyersfan31 said:
No. My attitude is "why don't people worry about stuff of major importance instead of little sideshows affecting a small portion of the populace."
Click to expand...

Seriously? Well guess what, you as a pilot, are a smaller portion of the population yet. Are you saying that no one should care about our rights?

If you slowly take away the rights of all the "small portion of the populace" you will end up with the entire populace losing their rights.

I really have nothing more to say to you. I simply don't understand how a pilot, whom enjoys a very rare right, doesn't feel that the rights of others are important.
 
Tom-D said:
The Gov. only uses .223/.50BBR/ .45ACP and a few rounds bought off the open market for special purposes. (like 9MM pistol)
Click to expand...
9mm for special purposes? The military uses a whole hell of a lot of 9mm--likely way more than they use .45ACP these days.
jlwilson said:
FWIW, the FBI uses alot of .40 or at least the HRT teams do, and a whole lot of .308.
Click to expand...
.40 is also very popular in local/state law enforcement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top