The Other Car

[scottfromboston]

I did like the Alltrack wagons, but stick to Japanese. A newer Mazda3 has great technology and they're rock solid, and may be available in a stick.

Except, VW. I've had two, both spontaneously fell apart at 50kmi. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, there will never be a third.

Wife has a Tiguan that has aged well but is a maintenance monster. We have a good indie shop and I take care of the small stuff. Engine melted down at 67k which was eventually covered by VW.

I just "upgraded" from a 10+ year-old 170k mile Mazda3 (bought used with 100k+). Two cars before that were both new Subarus - all wagons with manuals. I put at least 225k miles on the three, total, and none saw a flatbed.

The Mazda refused to start in my garage one day and I succumbed to wants-vs-needs; bought a 2015 Audi Allroad (A4 Wagon) with 49k. The buyer of the Mazda got a "parts" car that fired right up when he got it home (his lucky day). The Audi made it two months before a valve spring broke. Audi Corporate covered the repair but the dealer was an extremely disappointing experience. It's my last German car, guaranteed.

 

[Bill]

It's my last German car, guaranteed.

I've owned three Mercedes Benz, two VW, and one BMW, and love how German cars drive, very engaging driving experience. BUT (and as you can see that's a BIG BUT), they're expensive to buy, and beyond the warranty period expensive to repair and maintain. No mas. No matter how well they drive, I won't be buying another German car. That said, I'm extremely impressed with our new '19 Honda Civic Si (205hp turbo, 6sp manual, great suspension and brakes), a very well engineered car that drives two or three classes above it's price point. Every time I get in, I'm like "Man, this is really a nice small car!"

 

[Ted]

I would never own an Audi/VW. I don't understand why people like how those things drive. We've owned two BMWs and two Mercedes, though. The '97 740iL (E38 series, for those paying attention) was an absolute maintenance disaster. Loved driving it, but put tons of work and money into it before dumping it. The 5 and 7 series are just a lot of work.

The 2003 BMW Z4 (based on the 3-series) was very reliable. I didn't own it for long, I think only a year or two, but had no significant issues with it to speak of. The person who bought it from us did have to do a few things to it, but still overall reliable. However the 3-series is a much simpler and more reliable car than the 5 and 7, and the M-series BMWs have horrendous reliability.

It was around then that we started buying Mercedes, which we love. My 2003 E55, despite being notorious for electrical issues, was a great car. We bought it with 190k on it and drove it until past 230k with really not too many issues to speak of. The previous owner had taken very good care of it, and that's a big deal with these cars. We then bought a 2009 GL550 which is Laurie's current daily driver. We got it with 94k on it and now it has a bit over 130k (which reminds me - I need to do an oil change). It's required some more maintenance but for a complicated car that's 11 years old with that many miles on it, it's fine. It was also a one-owner vehicle before we got it, always dealer serviced. Again, important with those cars.

I'd absolutely buy another German car. I don't think Laurie is likely to let us not have a Mercedes in the household (she's a big fan now), and I want a Porsche one of these days. But I also know the Porsche requires more complex maintenance, so I don't want one of those until 1) the Cobra is done and driving and 2) I have my shop built.

 

[rtk11]

Admittedly, I've had excellent luck with VW. My wife's 2011 Touareg has been nothing but reliable and she's devoted to it. I had a 2011 Jetta TDI that I put 250,000 miles on was still on the original brake pads (mostly highway miles) and the car again required absolutely nothing other than normal maintenance in that time. VW bought it back at a price too high for me to turn down, but I miss that car.

I bought a BMW 328d to replace the Jetta. It had the sports package and the seating was great. But the steering was not as good as the Jetta (surprising), the chassis balance was good, but otherwise the car had less soul than I expected. Plus maintenance was hugely expensive on that car. (I found out later the previous owner had $15K fuel pump, filter and lines changed under warranty just prior to my purchase.)

I've had plenty of BMWs, Mercedes, Audi and VWs, and I come back to the Audi/VW line for the value in equipment when purchasing. I like Mercedes really well also and gave my mom a C series to drive.

I find the Japanese cars to be refined, but soulless. My brother loves Lexus and Toyota vehicles, and they've been good cars for him. But I don't have a lot of enthusiasm for it.

Last year, I traded the BMW 328d for a Genesis G70 with the 3.3 twin turbo motor. That vehicle was surprising in that the interior refinement was excellent (rear seat room is tiny though), the steering was precise and way better than my BMW (although the F30 chassis wasn't known for the best steering feel), and the power delivery was amazing. I really, really enjoy driving that car.

 

[Bill]

I find the Japanese cars to be refined, but soulless. My brother loves Lexus and Toyota vehicles, and they've been good cars for him. But I don't have a lot of enthusiasm for it.

At this point in my life cars are for utility and quiet transportation, bikes are for soul, performance, engaging riding experience, etc. I had a '14 Mustang GT 5.0 Track Pack 6sp manual for a while, but no matter how fast or engaging it was, it was relatively boring compared to fast bikes.

 

[SCCutler]

I have one of these as a remote-location airport car. Best car I own.

Seriously.

 

[NJP_MAN]

Last year, I traded the BMW 328d for a Genesis G70 with the 3.3 twin turbo motor. That vehicle was surprising in that the interior refinement was excellent (rear seat room is tiny though), the steering was precise and way better than my BMW (although the F30 chassis wasn't known for the best steering feel), and the power delivery was amazing. I really, really enjoy driving that car.

I just recently got a Stinger GT with the 3.3. So far I'm impressed. I did sell a 700+ HP GTR before I bought the Stinger so it seems under powered for the time being. When the 2.8 second 0-60 from the GTR wears off I'll like the Stinger even more. Does the g70 have a DCT ? That's the only thing I wish the Stinger had.

 

[bradg33]

I just recently got a Stinger GT with the 3.3. So far I'm impressed. I did sell a 700+ HP GTR before I bought the Stinger so it seems under powered for the time being. When the 2.8 second 0-60 from the GTR wears off I'll like the Stinger even more. Does the g70 have a DCT ? That's the only thing I wish the Stinger had.

How does one go from a GT-R (arguably a supercar) to a Kia?

 

[Bill]

View attachment 86833 I have one of these as a remote-location airport car. Best car I own.

Seriously.

My uncle had a '73 Vista Cruiser, very similar to this Custom Cruiser. It was quite deluxe, I loved the GM wagons of that era. Turn the key one way, and the glass vanishes up into the roof, turn it the other way and the tailgate vanishes under the car.

 

[Ted]

I find the Japanese cars to be refined, but soulless. My brother loves Lexus and Toyota vehicles, and they've been good cars for him. But I don't have a lot of enthusiasm for it.

Toyotas and Hondas are the worst. Zero soul, absolutely zero. Always have been. The MKIV Supra and S2000 are perhaps the only exceptions to that rule, although I've never driven either, only talked to people who've driven them. One guy who builds Cobras for a living bought himself a Lexus SUV as his tow vehicle, posted it on the Facebook group saying "Once you own a Lexus you'll never go back." I'm sure he had to lose business for that statement - a bunch of people building Cobras are the wrong crowd for that.

Mitsubishi does better, and Nissan actually does well. For Japanese cars, no doubt those two have the most soul (with Nissan at the top). But they're still Japanese, and the soul is still reduced vs. European cars and certain American cars. I say certain, because the FWD I4/V6 American cars may be more pleasing in some ways than a Toyota/Honda, but they're still very bleh.

 

[Zeldman]

My uncle had a '73 Vista Cruiser, very similar to this Custom Cruiser. It was quite deluxe, I loved the GM wagons of that era. Turn the key one way, and the glass vanishes up into the roof, turn it the other way and the tailgate vanishes under the car.

Vista Cruiser....you could actually cruise the vista with that....

Plus a portable bedroom for the flexible teenagers....

 

[Bill]

 

[NJP_MAN]

How does one go from a GT-R (arguably a supercar) to a Kia?

Interesting question. I've lost around $70,000 in pay in 2020 to start. Additionally I don't typically drive the GTR in the summer here in Phoenix so it was an easy choice as something to get off the books. It was aging and any maintenance that would have come up would have been a tough pill to swallow. For instance replacing the brakes is $7,000 if you have the shop do it. It had a first gen transmission so that was going to go out eventually. I viewed it as a liability in today's economic situation.

 

[bradg33]

Interesting question. I've lost around $70,000 in pay in 2020 to start. Additionally I don't typically drive the GTR in the summer here in Phoenix so it was an easy choice as something to get off the books. It was aging and any maintenance that would have come up would have been a tough pill to swallow. For instance replacing the brakes is $7,000 if you have the shop do it. It had a first gen transmission so that was going to go out eventually. I viewed it as a liability in today's economic situation.

That really stings on the pay, but certainly makes the shift from expensive supercar to Kia sport sedan understandable.

 

[NJP_MAN]

Toyotas and Hondas are the worst. Zero soul, absolutely zero. Always have been. The MKIV Supra and S2000 are perhaps the only exceptions to that rule, .

Sounds like you're leaving out the NSX, LFA and Integra Type R. That doesn't include any of the JDM stuff that we never saw on our continent.

 

[NJP_MAN]

That really stings on the pay, but certainly makes the shift from expensive supercar to Kia sport sedan understandable.

I dont really even notice the fact that it's a KIA. I've always known since the first Genesis came out that the KIA/Hyundai had what it took to make a legitimate vehicle. I'm really interested in the Telluride. The dealer said they cant keep them in stock and they are selling them over sticker. They had hundreds of vehicles on the lot and not a single Telluride to look at.

 

[Ted]

Sounds like you're leaving out the NSX, LFA and Integra Type R. That doesn't include any of the JDM stuff that we never saw on our continent.

Fair point on the NSX, although I can't see anything with FWD having anything resembling a soul. With that said I haven't driven or talked to anyone who's driven an NSX personally whose opinion I'd trust. The various YouTuber personalities don't count for much to me.

I pretty much entirely discount the NSX, though. I don't keep up with the modern ones but the earlier ones looked to have the engine and dashboard out of an Accord.

 

[rtk11]

I just recently got a Stinger GT with the 3.3. So far I'm impressed. I did sell a 700+ HP GTR before I bought the Stinger so it seems under powered for the time being. When the 2.8 second 0-60 from the GTR wears off I'll like the Stinger even more. Does the g70 have a DCT ? That's the only thing I wish the Stinger had.

The G70 has the same transmission as the Stinger GT, the 8 speed automatic transmission. But the G70 has a shorter wheelbase and is thus a little lighter and the suspension is tuned a little stiffer, so the ride characteristics are a different. The Stinger GT is a great vehicle and I almost went with one as the ride is comfortable. Plus with both Stinger and Genesis (and Hyundai)... 10 year, 100K miles powertrain warranty!

I installed a JB4 Tuner in my G70 (RWD) along with the O2 wires. While it won't hold a candle to a GTR, it does plenty fine against most other vehicles in Map 3 and 100 octane fuel mix. I don't do that very often and keep it on Map 2 (on 91 octane) which is good for 416 rwhp. (Map 3 is good for 434 rwhp, 520 lb-ft torque.)

Did I mention my daily driver is a 2002 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer with a 4.6 V8? As much as I love the G70, the Explorer is the go anywhere, park anywhere, "don't-care-if-it's-in-my-way-because-I'll-drive-over-it" vehicle. I absolutely love it!

 

[jsstevens]

For Japanese Soul, Mazda is (in my opinion) king of the hill. The Mazda 3 with a 2.3l and a manual is a sports car in a wagon or sedan clothing. The Miata is what small English roadsters would be if they didn't break all the time. (MGs, Triumph size-not Jags or Aston Martins). The various MazdaSpeed versions were cars to be reckoned with in their classes. That said, the Nissan 350/370 and the NISMO variants are nice too (and I own a 370). With a stick, mind you. Are they like driving a BMW? Well, as a devotee of Colin Chapman's "Weight is the enemy" philosophy, yes. Better even. But they're not the same. Toyota and Honda, yeah, pretty soulless though great transportation from a reliability perspective.

 

[denverpilot]

For Japanese Soul, Mazda is (in my opinion) king of the hill. The Mazda 3 with a 2.3l and a manual is a sports car in a wagon or sedan clothing.

Don’t know if they offer a manual in it, but for a cello I’d get the CX-30. Not going to find it used enough yet either but we looked hard at them before buying the Subaru.

The Mazda was a far better “driver’s car” than everything else. CX-30 was just a tad too small for two large dogs and a touch lower to the ground and we needed the entry height right for me and ground clearance for our prairie dirt roads and snow drifts.

If we were in town the decision would have been hard.

That said, the CX-5 badly needs a refresh of style and tech and they were also making sweet deals on those brand new when we were shopping. Money wise it beat the Subaru in total value to buy one of those brand new, but I had some trouble getting in and out of it at the time. Now it would be fine.

We pretty much liked everything Mazda had on the lot. Finding the three year lease return on the Subie swung us to them.

 

[NJP_MAN]

Fair point on the NSX, although I can't see anything with FWD having anything resembling a soul. With that said I haven't driven or talked to anyone who's driven an NSX personally whose opinion I'd trust. The various YouTuber personalities don't count for much to me.

I pretty much entirely discount the NSX, though. I don't keep up with the modern ones but the earlier ones looked to have the engine and dashboard out of an Accord.

They may have lacked the interior of a great car but I would say the early NSX certainly had soul.

 

[NJP_MAN]

The G70 has the same transmission as the Stinger GT, the 8 speed automatic transmission. But the G70 has a shorter wheelbase and is thus a little lighter and the suspension is tuned a little stiffer, so the ride characteristics are a different. The Stinger GT is a great vehicle and I almost went with one as the ride is comfortable. Plus with both Stinger and Genesis (and Hyundai)... 10 year, 100K miles powertrain warranty!

I installed a JB4 Tuner in my G70 (RWD) along with the O2 wires. While it won't hold a candle to a GTR, it does plenty fine against most other vehicles in Map 3 and 100 octane fuel mix. I don't do that very often and keep it on Map 2 (on 91 octane) which is good for 416 rwhp. (Map 3 is good for 434 rwhp, 520 lb-ft torque.)

Did I mention my daily driver is a 2002 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer with a 4.6 V8? As much as I love the G70, the Explorer is the go anywhere, park anywhere, "don't-care-if-it's-in-my-way-because-I'll-drive-over-it" vehicle. I absolutely love it!

I may consider tuning for ethanol at some point but I'm very satisfied with the power available from stock at the moment. I want to do intakes to get the turbo spool and recirculation sound. When I did intakes on the GTR it made a world of difference in sound coming from up front.

 

[Daleandee]

My uncle had a '73 Vista Cruiser, very similar to this Custom Cruiser.

When I was a teenager i loved these large cars i.e. "land yachts" we used to call them. One of my earliest cars was a 1966 Cadillac Calais. Took it over to my girlfriends house and her father took one look at the front seat and said,"nope ... she won't be riding in there with you." Admittedly it was a reclining sofa!

 

[weilke]

Accord Sport models are still available with a 6sp manual as well, if a cello fits into an Accord. Actually the Accord Sport 2.0T 6sp is a fairly quick car, high fives 0-60.

My wife only drives manuals. She owns one of only a handful Accord V6 MT built in 2006. When it came to replacing it after 230k miles, the options on manuals were severely limited. At the time BMW still had manuals, but a conversation with my european car mechanic cured me from that thought. We ended up with a 2018 Accord 2.0T in the 'sport' trim . Fun enough to drive but no comparison to the sewing machine smoothness of the little 3.0 V6. I still keep the old one as a hangar car. Just had to put new headlights in it, $45/piece.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

I'd recommend the Honda Fit (with a good set of snow tires for your winters) as a fantastic appliance (ND Miata and Lotus Elise are my fun cars). So quintessentially Honda in its practicality & usefulness.

Hard to beat the Fit's cargo volume/overall footprint ratio. Liftover height for the hatch is ultra-low, and by putting the fuel tank under the front seats, it frees up real estate for their clever folding rear seats that make for a very low load floor. Packed carefully, it can handle 20 bags of mulch, and recently I hauled a 3x8 sheet of plywood; a 4x8 won't fit, but fortunately I needed a smaller piece and had the Home Depot folks cut it down.

More fun to drive than you'd think...26xx-lb. curb weight, and stock tires are 300 treadwear, fairly grippy for the class.

 

[rtk11]

I had a '14 Mustang GT 5.0 Track Pack 6sp manual for a while, but no matter how fast or engaging it was, it was relatively boring compared to fast bikes.

@Bill Jennings , weren't you in the other thread as part of the pack of instigators trying to help a first time rider (OP) and talk me into a bike? I think @Ted DuPuis was part of that instigating pack. I went from nothing to looking at BMW G310GS, then the Yamaha R3, now the Ninja 400 (see the displacement and horsepower going up?) It's a matter of time before my wife beats some (of her) sense into me.

For the OP, I'll second the Honda Element. Fit seems a bit small, but Element seem genuinely useful. Maybe a Ridgeline (1st gen) if you don't really need to tow heavy things all the time. If you want to go esoteric (but I like them - not sure about dependability), a late 80's Isuzu Amigo seems like it'd be fun, especially the 4 cylinder, 4wd version. Just don't leave your Cello in the back with the convertible option open otherwise that Cello may not be there when you get back.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

The choices of manuals in this neck of the woods is ridiculously small. Like 10 cars. Not sure I'm willing to go car shopping up in Chicago. There is a Nissan Sentra SR Turbo locally. Anyone driven one?

 

[FormerHangie]

The choices of manuals in this neck of the woods is ridiculously small. Like 10 cars. Not sure I'm willing to go car shopping up in Chicago. There is a Nissan Sentra SR Turbo locally. Anyone driven one?

It's not just your area. I did a national search for new Accords with manual transmissions. There are 39 listed for the entire USA. For Fits, out of 120 in my area, one is a manual, and no manual Accords out of the 491 listed.

For Civics, 14 of the 535 in inventory are manuals, four of which are Sis, and one is a Type R. Like I said earlier, if you're looking for a non-sporty car with a manual. now's the time to buy, some of these won't be around next year.

 

[denverpilot]

The choices of manuals in this neck of the woods is ridiculously small. Like 10 cars. Not sure I'm willing to go car shopping up in Chicago. There is a Nissan Sentra SR Turbo locally. Anyone driven one?

Manuals are a dying breed here. Welcome home!

Since you were looking used, I stuck “2017” in the Googles for the example but you know how it works...

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-manual-transmission-cars-2017

 

[weilke]

The choices of manuals in this neck of the woods is ridiculously small. Like 10 cars. Not sure I'm willing to go car shopping up in Chicago. There is a Nissan Sentra SR Turbo locally. Anyone driven one?

If you want a stick you either have to order or travel. I had to trailer my wife's recent Accord from Boston to Maryland (MA doesn't have temp tags).

 

[Bill]

@Bill Jennings , weren't you in the other thread as part of the pack of instigators trying to help a first time rider (OP) and talk me into a bike? I think @Ted DuPuis was part of that instigating pack. I went from nothing to looking at BMW G310GS, then the Yamaha R3, now the Ninja 400 (see the displacement and horsepower going up?)

Yes, I was part of the instigator group! BTW, The absolute best 1st bike IMHO is a Suzuki SV650 standard with ABS brakes. Gentle enough for a newbie, engaging and fun enough for an experienced rider. I rode one for about five years, it was a hoot! I only sold it to pay for getting my instrument rating lol.

 

[Ted]

The choices of manuals in this neck of the woods is ridiculously small. Like 10 cars. Not sure I'm willing to go car shopping up in Chicago. There is a Nissan Sentra SR Turbo locally. Anyone driven one?

There are much better options here in the KC area, plenty of Boxsters if you want one of those. I would absolutely avoid Chicago - even plastic cars will rust there and it seems that all of the scams about used cars in the midwest come from there.

If you're buying a more interesting car, yeah, you are likely going to have to travel a bit to buy it. But if you find something in KC that you're interested in I'd be glad to go check it out for you.

 

[jsstevens]

When I bought my 2017 370Z convertible there were exactly 8 for sale in the entire US. And as of 2018 they no longer make the convertible with a stick.

 

[Ghery]

Honda Element.....not made anymore but still supported....see a lot of them still on the road....can find some with AWD....bulletproof....utilitarian in that rear seats can be folded up to sides or easily removed and rear doors open rearward for easy loading....have a bit of a hippyish cult following. Do a YouTube search. View attachment 86731
I bought ours as an airport car but find I use it a lot as primary transportation.

Good to see that Honda finally built Elements that didn't look like a bunch of spare parts when new.

We had a 1965 Olds Vista Cruiser that we bought used in 1969. It was a tank. Big, comfortable and needed work virtually every time you turned around. I don't think we had it too many years.

My first car with an automatic was (is) my 1999 Jeep Wrangler. I bought an automatic simply because I needed three hands to drive a manual. One hand on the wheel, one hand to shift gears and one hand for the ham radio microphone. Given that I only have 2 hands... Otherwise, it would have had a manual transmission, as well. Now, good luck finding a daily driver with a manual transmission.

BMW? I knew a fellow employee (German) at Tandem Computers back in the late 1980s who lived in Germany and pronounced it B M TroubleU. He was not impressed with their lack of reliability. What did he drive? A Subaru.

Have fun, whatever you buy.

 

[Skywalker]

Welcome back. I am sure you will find a car that suits your mission!