The Order of Things

JOhnH said:
I'm sorry that I worded that poorly. I didn't mean it that way. That is basically the same speech I gave to a couple of my family members whom I love very much.
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No worries. I was having "one of those mornings" at work when I read it and fired off that response. I apologize for that.
 
JMac1773 said:
Subtitle: What the Hell am I Doing?

Since I made my first post on here a few minutes ago I thought I would jump right in, say hello, and ask one of the impossible to answer questions.

Little background: My dad was a private pilot when I was a kid. Needless to say I've been looking skyward every since. It got in my blood. Deep.

Life, lack of money, etc. kept getting in the way of getting my PPL. Nothing new about that, I know. So now I'm almost 42 and I have a new-ish baby boy (future co-pilot) and an understanding and supportive wife now... so I figure it's time.

I've basically been around aviation my whole life. I understand the physics, the navigation (well, I'm getting there) etc. Suffice to say: I'm not coming at this from a total newbie perspective.

I've started on the Gleim ground school home study/online curriculum. I've been reading the "Private Pilot Handbook" by Machado and I'm waiting to read three other books after I finish that one. I've attended a meeting of a local flying club but have yet to join. I have yet to talk to one of their (very) qualified CFI's about arranging flight training. That is due in large part to the elephant in the room - money. Or the lack thereof. I don't have the time to take out a loan and go to a traditional ground school. I'm not a doctor who can afford a Mooney M20. I'm not an engineer who can buy his own Cessna 172. (I probably could never afford 150.) I'm not THAT guy. I'm a regular dude with a decent job but not a ton of disposable income. Capiche?

So here's my dilemma: Since I'm already studying ground school what would my logical next step be? I know I need to get the 3rd class medical out of the way fairly soon so I can sell all the books and ground school material in case I don't pass it. Here's what I'm thinking (in somewhat chronological order) and PLEASE feel free to chime in with your opinions.

Keep studying the ground school.
Get the 3rd class medical.
Find some money.
Study ground school.
Find some money.
Take a few flight lessons.
Study the ground school.
Take the written test.
Sell plasma.
Take a few more flight lessons.
Repeat flying lessons till done. Rinse. Air dry.

(Don't forget to hope the CFI I get will work with the the Gleim material.)

Anyway, what do you guys and gals think? (By the way, thanks for letting me ramble. I just have a lot on my mind. This seems like the best and most active board I've stumbled across. Happy to be here.) :)
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We are not all that dissimilar
I got 1/2 through gleim before starting lessons. I only flew 3-4 times a month and soloed on my 13th lesson which is a reasonable timeframe.

I paid as I went and it was fine. When I had money, I flew when I didn't, I didn't. It took me about 10 months to get my cert but didn't require much more total hours than if I paid it all up front.

2 exceptions. I did two chunks of 5-6 hours in a couple days to prep for the checkride and those went on a credit card. My ultimate goal was get the cert without disrupting family finances (I have 2 kids) and I was able to do that.

Go take some lessons. Worry about the medical after you are sure you are going to follow through

Take the written later (closer to the checkride) It will be very similar to the oral exam.

Biolife Medical in Denton is good for about a half hour of flying money each week. I hear they are real friendly ;)
 
txflyer said:
I don't know a lot about it, but is a sport pilot rating out of the question? I'd look into that and just get to flying somehow. You don't need a medical and I would think it's half the cost.
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I've thought about it but my ultimate goal is to take family trips etc that a SP certificate just wouldn't cover. It just seems I would have to spend the money for the SP cert and then spend more for the PPL. I don't know...

I guess if for some reason the medical is a no-go I'll look into the SP options. Thanks!
 
JMac1773 said:
but that and more went to the stupid engine on my stupid truck. LOL!
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Not to be nosy, but do you have a good reason (large family, business) for driving a large stupid truck? You could probably trade that Suburban on a nice used Civic, Accord, etc., and put some flying money into your envelope. And the gas savings would continue to stuff that envelope.
 
JMac1773 said:
I've thought about it but my ultimate goal is to take family trips etc that a SP certificate just wouldn't cover. It just seems I would have to spend the money for the SP cert and then spend more for the PPL. I don't know...

I guess if for some reason the medical is a no-go I'll look into the SP options. Thanks!
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That's how much I know about sport flying.

Here I thought you could take people with you. :dunno:

Got any rich parents, friends, aunts, or uncles? You could borrow the money from them sworn in blood you'll pay it back with an interest rate that's better than any bank they can find but less than interest you'll pay on anything else.... it's a tough road, because usually if you want to lose a friend, just ask them for money or don't pay them back. But it can work if done right.
 
mcmanigle said:
I think people are coming at this with different goals in mind, and different value judgements placed on being a student pilot.

Let's say (hypothetically) that you're making $3000 per year that you can spend on flying, and a plane rental costs you $90/hour and an instructor costs $30/hour.

You could open a bank account (or envelope), start putting your flying income into it now (Jan 2015), and then in September 2016, fly three or four times a week, spend $5000 (figure 30 hours dual, 15 hours solo because you're being so efficient) and get your PPL right around January 2017 with $1000 in the bank for your first couple of flights with your family.

Or, you could start flying now and take a lesson about once every two weeks (missing here and there for weather, maintenance, etc.). Maybe, given this "inefficiency", it takes you 25 hours before you solo, so that happens around Jan 2016. Let's say at that point you do an hour dual and 1.5 solo each month (or so). By January 2017, you've got 37 hours dual and 18 hours solo, and are probably about ready for your PPL check ride.

Personally, I think either of these methods is valid. Sure, the first way you've spent $1000 less, so it's more "efficient" if ratings/money is your efficiency measure. But the second way isn't putting you into debt (I agree that's almost never a good option), and you can still fly with your family with the next year's $3000. Plus, you've been able to enjoy being a pilot (even if a student pilot) for a year and a half longer. The second way might be better if you have family or work obligations that mean it will never be convenient to take a couple of months and fly 4 times a week.

Now, maybe stretching it out this much will cause more than the 10 hours of inefficiency I've assumed here, but you can't know that in advance, and "chair flying" etc can go a long way to help. And I'm not including other costs, like books or medical or whatnot, because I'm sure you can factor those in yourself.

But you seem like the kind of guy who can figure out his own income and costs and see how much you can afford to be flying. Yes, there are tricky ways to do it like buying a cheap plane on credit, but I wouldn't do that unless you know you're good at those kinds of tricks; it seems like more bother than it's worth to me.

Also, and especially if you're going the long route, why be in a rush for ground school and the written? Most instructors I know are happy to sign you off to take the written once you demonstrate (usually through a few free practice tests) that you will score at least a 90% or so. If you have two years to do that, just read the FAA's material and don't bother spending money on anything. Gleim makes sense if you need to power through some ratings, but it sounds like you study and retain information well and have the spare time to read the books and go to exams4pilots to take free tests.

Getting medical clearance early isn't a bad idea as you've mentioned about sunk costs if it turns out you can't be certified. But if you're taking the "long road" and might not solo for a year, maybe even hold off on that, especially if you're a) quite sure you'll be certified, and b) wouldn't drop the whole thing if it turns out sport pilot is your only option. I'll (rightly) get some push back on this one.
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Excellent post. Thank you! I really think I'm going to have to do the "grind it out" method, unfortunately. (I've actually never been so intent on accomplishing anything in my life so where there's a will...)

I appreciate the advice immensely. I'll definitely put it to good use.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Not to be nosy, but do you have a good reason (large family, business) for driving a large stupid truck? You could probably trade that Suburban on a nice used Civic, Accord, etc., and put some flying money into your envelope. And the gas savings would continue to stuff that envelope.
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I grew up driving those large, stupid vehicles. With two kids and a wife who has a photography business on the side... we need the room. A Civic is great if you have no kids. We traded out Jetta in on the Suburban. I'd rather lose a foot than drive a small car again. (And gas is down to $1.75/gallon at my local gas station. I call it stimulating the economy when I fill up.)
 
JMac1773 said:
I grew up driving those large, stupid vehicles. With two kids and a wife who has a photography business on the side... we need the room. A Civic is great if you have no kids. We traded out Jetta in on the Suburban. I'd rather lose a foot than drive a small car again. (And gas is down to $1.75/gallon at my local gas station. I call it stimulating the economy when I fill up.)
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Understood, everything in life is a balance!
 
txflyer said:
Here I thought you could take people with you. :dunno:

Got any rich parents, friends, aunts, or uncles? You could borrow the money from them sworn in blood you'll pay it back with an interest rate that's better than any bank they can find but less than interest you'll pay on anything else.... it's a tough road, because usually if you want to lose a friend, just ask them for money or don't pay them back. But it can work if done right.
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SP only allows one passenger. I'm not leaving the kids behind. Sorry.

And negative on the loans. If I can't do it myself then it's not worth doing. I just ask for cash for birthday, Christmas, etc. LOL!
 
Also, I know a guy that does medicals for $40.
Cheapest I have seen. I will dig up his info.
 
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