The new era of not being able to hide pilot mistakes

I got bills from vector long before ADS-B existed, so this is nothing new, they are just using a different way to collect data.

Roller said:
If I got a enforcement action on the GA side I’d imagine the company would not be happy with me
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bonefishpete said:
Knew a older airline pilot at the airport, believe Pan Am. We both had mooneys and asked about his GA flying. He said he never flew "small" planes before retirement because of endangering his airline career through accidents or enforcement. That was a new thing for me.
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There is nothing in my collective bargaining agreement that says if I get a violation flying my personal airplane around that my company can fire me.
 
Roller said:
The accuracy, refresh rate and failure variables of a ground based radar are in a whole different universe compared to ADSB, two different tools for two mostly different tasks

Even if everyone in a Orwellian world had ADSB, you want me to fly 300+ people on approach, trusting completely in a Bobs Bonanza having a good ADSB signal?
Bad install
Popped breaker
GPS outage
Bad signal to the ADSB tower
Bad ADSB coverage, which is very common in non urban areas.
The list goes on

Compared to a real radar where the controller has the fidelity to even detect flock of birds?


ADSB is not something that can properly replace real radar, plus for reasons of national security, nope
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I think you don't understand how radar works, neither primary radar nor secondary radar has a 100% detection rate.
 
Groundpounder said:
I got bills from vector long before ADS-B existed, so this is nothing new, they are just using a different way to collect data.





There is nothing in my collective bargaining agreement that says if I get a violation flying my personal airplane around that my company can fire me.
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You can fly without a valid medical or pilots certificate?


Bob Noel said:
I think you don't understand how radar works, neither primary radar nor secondary radar has a 100% detection rate.
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Nothing has a 100% rate
4RNB said:
Is there a public record of a GA pilot being investigated based upon ADSB tracking investigation based upon public request such that it impacted a pro airline pilot?

For pro pilots that also fly GA, what is the base rate for such occurrences?

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Has a 121 pilot ever had an enforcement action while flying 91? Not sure how I would dig that info up however based on volume I would put money on it
 
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Nope, I cannot fly without a valid medical or pilot certificate. But not being able to fly, and being terminated, are two different things. If I lose my medical, I have short and long term disability. If my pilot cert is suspended, I will probably be without a paycheck for a while, but I won't be fired.
 
Groundpounder said:
Nope, I cannot fly without a valid medical or pilot certificate. But not being able to fly, and being terminated, are two different things. If I lose my medical, I have short and long term disability. If my pilot cert is suspended, I will probably be without a paycheck for a while, but I won't be fired.
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Depending on the level of enforcement action that can be huge money, both in not being able to fly and in costs to get your certificate back.


Personally I’m just not playing with it, especially after seeing how many people treated others during covid.


I would be very surprised if most CBAs didn’t have a way for a company to do something rather unpleasant to a pilot if they had a FAA enforcement action that made them unable to fly the line.
 
Roller said:
Depending on the level of enforcement action that can be huge money, both in not being able to fly and in costs to get your certificate back.


Personally I’m just not playing with it, especially after seeing how many people treated others during covid.


I would be very surprised if most CBAs didn’t have a way for a company to do something rather unpleasant to a pilot if they had a FAA enforcement action that made them unable to fly the line.
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The best option is to not get your certificate suspended, obviously. But as long as its not taken away permanently, I won't lose my job. If a CBA has an option where the company can fire you for that, that needs to be addressed in the next round of negotiations.

All that being said, I'm not going to not fly my airplane, and as long as I don't do nothing dumb, I'm not going to worry about losing my cert.
 
You earn your PPL as a license to learn, you then fly. This inexperienced pilot is expected to continue learning and flying, so what are we doing that is causing certificate action? Busting the Bravo or landing on the wrong runway? I don’t think the system is set up to get you, if you made a mistake, is ATC going to report you or just ask you about it? Even though I admit there is more for me to learn, I’m not worried about any certificate action. We are all people, when you mess up, fess up, and I think you’ll be fine. Sorry I don’t think flying under bridges is a mistake, you gotta get permission for that :) or maybe calculate the 500’ rule?
 
Groundpounder said:
The best option is to not get your certificate suspended, obviously. But as long as its not taken away permanently, I won't lose my job. If a CBA has an option where the company can fire you for that, that needs to be addressed in the next round of negotiations.

All that being said, I'm not going to not fly my airplane, and as long as I don't do nothing dumb, I'm not going to worry about losing my cert.
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Some people think the widget has a good contract

onemileatatime.com

Awful: Delta Labels Whistleblower Pilot As "Bipolar"

The shocking story of how Delta labeled a whistleblower pilot who reported safety issues as "bipolar," and what came of this case.
onemileatatime.com onemileatatime.com
 
Roller said:
Some people think the widget has a good contract

onemileatatime.com

Awful: Delta Labels Whistleblower Pilot As "Bipolar"

The shocking story of how Delta labeled a whistleblower pilot who reported safety issues as "bipolar," and what came of this case.
onemileatatime.com onemileatatime.com
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What does that have to do with an enforcement action via ADSB???

I'm with Groundpounder - not gonna stop enjoying GA because I'm worried about getting my certificate suspended.
 
Roller said:
Some people think the widget has a good contract

onemileatatime.com

Awful: Delta Labels Whistleblower Pilot As "Bipolar"

The shocking story of how Delta labeled a whistleblower pilot who reported safety issues as "bipolar," and what came of this case.
onemileatatime.com onemileatatime.com
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Interesting…
“We made a business decision to settle the matter rather than appeal a decision that we disagreed with. Delta’s fitness for duty testing process for pilots is in place to ensure safety and it works.”
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So they made a business decision to put a pilot they believe is unfit back into the cockpit to ensure safety.:rolleyes:
 
kayoh190 said:
What does that have to do with an enforcement action via ADSB???

I'm with Groundpounder - not gonna stop enjoying GA because I'm worried about getting my certificate suspended.
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That having done nothing wrong doesn’t stop the FAA from coming after you.

I still enjoy GA as well, I just take precautions to avoid the possibility of coming into some complainers crosshairs and the ensuing potential FAA “prove yourself innocent” rodeo
 
Roller said:
That having done nothing wrong doesn’t stop the FAA from coming after you.

I still enjoy GA as well, I just take precautions to avoid the possibility of coming into some complainers crosshairs and the ensuing potential FAA “prove yourself innocent” rodeo
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You should probably eliminate all online activities also in case the faa thought police are here
 
Roller said:
That having done nothing wrong doesn’t stop the FAA from coming after you.

I still enjoy GA as well, I just take precautions to avoid the possibility of coming into some complainers crosshairs and the ensuing potential FAA “prove yourself innocent” rodeo
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The FAA didn't come after Petitt, her employer did.
 
I have no problem with ADSB. I'm a rule follower and like being able to see where airplanes are out there. But as we see with FISA -- where ONE of the parties on the call is SUPPOSED to be a foreigner - it is going to be used and abused. But I've spent so much time and effort to be able to fly (I have a PA32), I'm hell bent on following the rules. I love my airplane and wouldn't want to f that up.
 
JoeInCT said:
I have no problem with ADSB. I'm a rule follower and like being able to see where airplanes are out there. But as we see with FISA -- where ONE of the parties on the call is SUPPOSED to be a foreigner - it is going to be used and abused. But I've spent so much time and effort to be able to fly (I have a PA32), I'm hell bent on following the rules. I love my airplane and wouldn't want to f that up.
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Just remember not doing anything wrong doesn’t always mean not having the FAA come after you, 91.13 is un constitutionally vague for a reason.


And not all airplanes are going to be on your screen, due to reception issues, or airplanes like mine that don’t have transponders.

This issue seems to be a hot potato here, I will stop adding to this thread, I will say my opinion of the FAA et all was in line with many here until “it happened to me”.
 
Roller said:
Just remember not doing anything wrong doesn’t always mean not having the FAA come after you, 91.13 is un constitutionally vague for a reason.
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Do you have examples of 91.13 violations that didn’t involve other regulatory violations?
 
Roller said:
Just remember not doing anything wrong doesn’t always mean not having the FAA come after you, 91.13 is un constitutionally vague for a reason.
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MauleSkinner said:
Do you have examples of 91.13 violations that didn’t involve other regulatory violations?
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I know that "solo" 91.13 violations exist, but I'm not gonna go looking for them right now.

91.13 exists because the FAA can't possibly dream up all the stupid pilot tricks in advance, so they have that catch-all for the truly idiotic stuff.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I know that "solo" 91.13 violations exist, but I'm not gonna go looking for them right now.

91.13 exists because the FAA can't possibly dream up all the stupid pilot tricks in advance, so they have that catch-all for the truly idiotic stuff.
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Nulla crimen sine lege

…If it pleases the crown
 
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