The New 69-Year Old airplane

dmccormack

dmccormack

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
May 11, 2007
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Location
Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
Display Name
Display name:
Dan Mc
Here are some pics taken Sunday afternoon:
(airplane is 1940 Aeronca Chief, LA-65, rebuilt in 1979)
 

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AdamZ said:
how does the chief compare to the champ? Fun looking bird BTW!
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My, oh my -- I was about to post the same question on the Aeronca Board but searched before I did. I'm glad I searched -- talk about religious wars!

The Champ's design requirements were pretty simple --"Don't make the same mistakes as the Cub."

So visibility is better, cabin is wider, etc.

The Chief was actually an earlier design, and a vast improvement over the C-3 "Flying bathtub." The consensus is the Pre-War Chief is a faster, more efficient airplane than the Champ and Post-War Chief, but "fast" shouldn't be used as a descriptor of any of them.

DON'T believe the Wikipedia article -- The performance figures are the figment of a hyperactive imagination:

  • Range: 500 miles (800 km) -- 12 Gallon tank, 75 mph, do the math
  • Service ceiling: 15,000 ft (4,500 m) -- Seriously? Not enough fuel to get to 5k
  • Rate of climb: 600 ft/min (180 m/min) -- with no one aboard, perhaps. More like 300-250fpm with a human on board.

So far I'm seeing less than 4 gph at 2300 RPM and TAS of 75 MPH. That's pretty cheap flying!
 
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YAY!! Great news. I'm happy for you. I don't know what you paid, but that panel is worth a million bucks. Well, maybe not, but it is pretty cool in that old-school way. Congratulations.
 
flyersfan31 said:
YAY!! Great news. I'm happy for you. I don't know what you paid, but that panel is worth a million bucks. Well, maybe not, but it is pretty cool in that old-school way. Congratulations.
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Thanks!

Now if I can just get some decent flying weather!!! :frown3:

I bought it over the phone after seeing it once. I paid less for this airplane than any car I've purchased since 1983.

:D
 
Cool airplane! Had a '46 Chief back in the 70's. It would cruise 85mph @2150 rpm (engine seemed happiest there). Champs have better viz from the front seat than a Chief, but the ones I've flown seem to be a few miles an hour slower than the Chiefs. Got to fly an Aeronca Sedan from Plainwell MI to Frederick MD, 100 mph on 145 hp, handled just like a 4 seat Chief. I like that 3 in 1 gauge with the Aeronca logo. Looks like you have the slider windows, perfect for sticking your elbow out in the breeze.
 

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Howard Wilson said:
I like that 3 in 1 gauge with the Aeronca logo. Looks like you have the slider windows, perfect for sticking your elbow out in the breeze.
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Yeah... that Gauge needs some refurb -- it may head up to the place in Lock Haven in January. Even the altimeter is original -- very interetsing, and seems to work!

I'm sitting a bit too low to be able to comfortably put my elbow up there, but I do like the sliding glass feature!
 
dmccormack said:
Yeah... that Gauge needs some refurb -- it may head up to the place in Lock Haven in January. Even the altimeter is original -- very interetsing, and seems to work!

If you are sending it to Keystone Instruments, they do good work. It may take some time tho'. They've done a Stewart Warner 3 in 1 gauge and a Taylorcraft/Airpath bubble faced compass for me.
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Howard Wilson said:
If you are sending it to Keystone Instruments, they do good work. It may take some time tho'. They've done a Stewart Warner 3 in 1 gauge and a Taylorcraft/Airpath bubble faced compass for me.
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That's it -- Keystone. They are nearby and I've heard good things. Glad to hear the confirmation here as well.
 
dmccormack said:
  • Range: 500 miles (800 km) -- 12 Gallon tank, 75 mph, do the math
  • Service ceiling: 15,000 ft (4,500 m) -- Seriously? Not enough fuel to get to 5k
  • Rate of climb: 600 ft/min (180 m/min) -- with no one aboard, perhaps. More like 300-250fpm with a human on board.
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Those are pretty optimistic figures... but I recall waiting for the rental Champ to return from the previous flight, and when the guy arrived, he told me and some locals where he'd been. I don't recall the route or total mileage, but some eyebrows shot up... "you didn't stop for fuel anywhere?"

"Nope", he said, "remember- I'm a glider pilot!" ;) He'd worked a few thermals and some ridge lift along the way, throttling way, way back and still maintaining altitude.

That's true about the Champ, and probably the Chief- the climb rate is pretty lousy, and it's no sailplane, but if you know how to find lift, it might surprise you. I remember diving like crazy a few times trying to hold altitude when flying through areas of ridge lift.

I guess it will fly OK at 15,000... but I was amazed that this Champ would fly well at 7,000 with no mixture control (although now I understand how that setup works). does the Chief have a mixture control?


So far I'm seeing less than 4 gph at 2300 RPM and TAS of 75 MPH. That's pretty cheap flying!
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You betcha... between knowing that and just having fun flying it, you'll smile every minute of every flight. :D
 
Your altimeter looks identical to the one in my Porterfield with a single pointer and a knob that rotates the entire guts. You might want to do what I did and put a small triangle of colored tape on the panel pointing to the altimeter to act as a sort of "Kolsman" mark. Set the altimeter to match your field elevation and set the tape so it's pointing to the altimeter setting from ASOS/AWOS/ATIS or another airplane's altimeter you trust. Drop the least significant digit and use the most significant digit to pick the proper quadrant: If the altimeter setting is 30.00 or higher the pointer goes between the '0' and the '2' on your altimeter's face, 29.99 and below and it goes between the '8 and '0'. The second digit matches the numbers on the face and the third picks the appropriate tick mark between the numbers.

Once you get used to this you can adjust your altimeter in the air to the latest setting broadcast on ASOS/AWOS/ATIS by rotating the dial until the tape pointer lines up in the same way as was used to place it on the panel.
 
Looks like a very fun little plane for low and slow flight. Enjoy!
 
gismo said:
Your altimeter looks identical to the one in my Porterfield with a single pointer and a knob that rotates the entire guts. You might want to do what I did and put a small triangle of colored tape on the panel pointing to the altimeter to act as a sort of "Kolsman" mark. Set the altimeter to match your field elevation and set the tape so it's pointing to the altimeter setting from ASOS/AWOS/ATIS or another airplane's altimeter you trust. Drop the least significant digit and use the most significant digit to pick the proper quadrant: If the altimeter setting is 30.00 or higher the pointer goes between the '0' and the '2' on your altimeter's face, 29.99 and below and it goes between the '8 and '0'. The second digit matches the numbers on the face and the third picks the appropriate tick mark between the numbers.

Once you get used to this you can adjust your altimeter in the air to the latest setting broadcast on ASOS/AWOS/ATIS by rotating the dial until the tape pointer lines up in the same way as was used to place it on the panel.
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That's a great system... I'll confess to not paying attention to it much yet. Of course I have a grand total of 45 minutes in the air in it, and about 15 on the ground.

I'm trying to visualize what you explained here but maybe my brain's inadequate on Fridays... :nonod:

"set the tape so it's pointing to the altimeter setting" So the triangle of tape is pointing to...?
 
gismo said:
Your altimeter looks identical to the one in my Porterfield with a single pointer and a knob that rotates the entire guts. You might want to do what I did and put a small triangle of colored tape on the panel pointing to the altimeter to act as a sort of "Kolsman" mark. Set the altimeter to match your field elevation and set the tape so it's pointing to the altimeter setting from ASOS/AWOS/ATIS or another airplane's altimeter you trust. Drop the least significant digit and use the most significant digit to pick the proper quadrant: If the altimeter setting is 30.00 or higher the pointer goes between the '0' and the '2' on your altimeter's face, 29.99 and below and it goes between the '8 and '0'. The second digit matches the numbers on the face and the third picks the appropriate tick mark between the numbers.

Once you get used to this you can adjust your altimeter in the air to the latest setting broadcast on ASOS/AWOS/ATIS by rotating the dial until the tape pointer lines up in the same way as was used to place it on the panel.
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I thought this was a non electric airplane? Why screw it up with a freakin' radio?

Set the altimeter prior to takeoff, that's it. You're not going fast nor very far. The altimeter is more for CAR compliance than anything useful in these old airplanes.

FWIW a friend of mine has a PA-11 without electrics. He uses a pair of old King radios as chocks. :D
 
Cool! Congrats Dan! What engine is in it?
 
Radio is a safety issue. I'd have one. I'm sure there will be howls of protest about me saying this.
 
Just stick a portable ICOM in there with zip fasterners.
 
i dont think it is inherently dangerous to fly radio free. in fact i enjoy it quite a bit. I do think that adding a radio has the potential to enhance safety of flight, but it also has the potential to detract from safety of flight.

I installed a radio in my glider this spring, and will do the same with the new glider next year.
 
I have a Sporty's handheld and have used it often to pick up ATIS/AWOS/ASOS while preflighting.

I've used it in flight twice due to electric failure -- once while a student pilot in a C152 (I had to fly from KVVS to KLNS -- it was one quiet flight), another while IMC in a Bonanza -- talked to Pitt Approach, got cleared direct, made a visual (after hand-cranking the gear down).

I'll carry the radio when I fly out or Rostraver or into CKB or MGW. Otherwise, it will sit in my flight bag (with a whole lot of other marginally useless crap). :D
 
Rotor&Wing said:
FWIW a friend of mine has a PA-11 without electrics. He uses a pair of old King radios as chocks. :D
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There are lots more dead Narcos out there, but the Kings would make more reliable chocks:smile:

Dan
 
steingar said:
Carrying a handheld radio isn't a bad idea.
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It really depends which way I'm flying and from what airport.

I'll be based at KVVS for a while (hangar space is hard to find around here as there are lots of classic car collections to store, I suppose).

Probably half the traffic there is NORDO. The other half is Stat Medevac, and they fly predictable routes.

If I fly to work, I'll need a radio to talk to KCKB. If I fly up to KFWQ, I'll probably bring the handheld since there's a fair amount of traffic there and even with a radio I've had close calls.

So carry/not carry a radio for me is a function of where I'm going, not a bare minimum safe flight requirement.
 
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