The magic 7003' runway

[Lawreston]

[Snip]

Landing on 12000 x 150 foot runways took me some getting used to, like when I had to power up to taxi 1500 feet ahead to the first turnoff at IND.

When I did my dual X-ctry and landed above and beyond a KC-135 which on its Final looked to me like a mosquito while I was on Base, during my flare I thought I had the entire world in front of me. And my roll-out to Taxiway Mike was nearly as long as the gravel over turf strip I had left.

BIA -- 12,400' -- is the former Dow Air Force Base, Bangor, Maine. Dr. Bruce knows it well.

HR

 

[Lawreston]

This is a good place to learn:
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KDTG
2634' x 21', but it's centered on a 100' turf strip, so if the student messes up, it's alright.

So's this one; all 1948' of it. Many have started here in Cessna 4065Victor, as did I.

HR

 

[Lawreston]

[Snip]
I did my primary training at a runway that is 2400x30; power lines at one end and really tall trees at the other.

Yup; see my photos, earlier in this thread. Leaving #14, at 400' we're over the power lines and over Merrymeeting Bay. Landing on #14, touchdown is not far beyond (a.) the trees and (b.) the two lane road. Landing on #32, we come in over the Bay, and said road and trees are just beyond the other end. In this older photo we're looking down on #14. The tie-down area which juts off to the right is the original runway. When the power lines went through decades ago the runway had to be relocated to 14/32.

HR

 

[mikea]

If what you said is true, then you, sir, have truly cracked the code. As a bonus, it actually makes sense.

I can't wait until that explanation gets picked up in a Google search.

I verified the data with the backside I pulled it out of.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

I used to make the first turn off in my Baron; then, after several sets of brake replacements, I decided to let the plane roll a bit. Don't let everything a CFI can do in a rental plane overly impress you.

Owners have a different perspective; especially owners that don't do their own maintenance.

Best,

Dave

 

[Teller1900]

If what you said is true, then you, sir, have truly cracked the code. As a bonus, it actually makes sense.

That's assuming the actually knows what he's talking about. And that's assuming a lot!

You should see my CFI land in his 172. He gets stopped and makes the first turn off on the FBO end of our 3270 foot runway. Gotta be 1200 feet, tops.

I was flying with a guy that got a 58,000lb turbo prop down and stopped in 1800 feet. The engines didn't even have time to spool in reverse before we were at taxi speed. Even a short runway can seem long if you have good technique and fly the numbers.

 

[SteveinIndy]

Try a max gross 160 hp 172 with a cruise prop on a 100 degree August afternoon in Denver. It might be a few thousand feet of taxi before departure to a slow, Cub like, climb.

Reminds me again why I have put Denver at the bottom of my list of places I want to do my graduate work at. Passing up a great school, nice area (at least the suburbs are nice) and beautiful scenery, but I don't like the idea of playing around with DA issues on a regular basis to quite that degree (no pun intended).

 

[SteveinIndy]

So's this one; all 1948' of it. Many have started here in Cessna 4065Victor, as did I.

That's an airstrip? More power to you if that's your thing....looks more like an "any port in the storm" sort of arrangement.

 

[EdFred]

That's an airstrip? More power to you if that's your thing....looks more like an "any port in the storm" sort of arrangement.

No offense, but you got screwed over in your training. I've been on that airstrip and it's a yawner.

 

[Everskyward]

Reminds me again why I have put Denver at the bottom of my list of places I want to do my graduate work at. Passing up a great school, nice area (at least the suburbs are nice) and beautiful scenery, but I don't like the idea of playing around with DA issues on a regular basis to quite that degree (no pun intended).

You're kidding, right? Well, maybe you aren't. I'll just let you know that plenty of people fly small airplanes in Denver without killing themselves.

 

[Clark1961]

Reminds me again why I have put Denver at the bottom of my list of places I want to do my graduate work at. Passing up a great school, nice area (at least the suburbs are nice) and beautiful scenery, but I don't like the idea of playing around with DA issues on a regular basis to quite that degree (no pun intended).

Ah, but the DA is why we have looonnnnggg runways. Once ya learn the rules, it really isn't a problem. It is a limit and ya better respect it, but it isn't a problem. Well, don't fly N4547E in the summer and it isn't a problem...

And graduate work around here can be really nice. Lots of relatively cheap recreation around and a comfortable climate (if you like sunshine and dry weather).

What's your discipline?

 

[TknoFlyer]

When every flight starting with your demo flight is from a 3270 foot x 40 foot runway with a launching bump at 800 feet, it's just home.

Sounds like where I trained (W32).

 

[roebuck85]

You are ALL spoiled.

Our runway at the house is is 1320' from the road to the end. trees and an up sloping hill on the road end leaves about 1000', you can taxi up the hill a bit for takeoff and it helps you stop if you are a little fast on landing. There is a hill-top about 700 feet from the road that you go up on takeoff and then it levels off for about 600 feet with wide open fields off the end for about 1 mile (ok two trees straight off the end about 1/4 mile but you can go over or around them.)

I have never flown in solo. And I'm not ready to yet, either. Unless it's in something slow, stable, and not a rental. Back when my dad was flying we used it quite a bit with the pacer. I made a few landings and take-offs with his coaching. You'd usually fly right off the top of the hill like a Harrier launch ramp One way in - one way out. Go arounds had to be done early due to the trees.

The 180 Cessna handled it well too (ex Canadian Bush Plane). A friend who flew a cub would land just before the top of the hill and roll down. (but IMHO he could have landed a King Air there, take-off, that's another story)

I'll try to take some pics tomorrow.

 

[ScottM]

You are ALL spoiled.

Our runway at the house is is 1320' from the road to the end. trees and an up sloping hill on the road end leaves about 1000', you can taxi up the hill a bit for takeoff and it helps you stop if you are a little fast on landing. There is a hill-top about 700 feet from the road that you go up on takeoff and then it levels off for about 600 feet with wide open fields off the end for about 1 mile (ok two trees straight off the end about 1/4 mile but you can go over or around them.)

I have never flown in solo. And I'm not ready to yet, either. Unless it's in something slow, stable, and not a rental. Back when my dad was flying we used it quite a bit with the pacer. I made a few landings and take-offs with his coaching. You'd usually fly right off the top of the hill like a Harrier launch ramp One way in - one way out. Go arounds had to be done early due to the trees.

The 180 Cessna handled it well too (ex Canadian Bush Plane). A friend who flew a cub would land just before the top of the hill and roll down. (but IMHO he could have landed a King Air there, take-off, that's another story)

I'll try to take some pics tomorrow.

You have a runway at your house and WE are spoiled

 

[westslopeco]

snip- Well, don't fly N4547E in the summer and it isn't a problem... - Snip

Especially with 3 people and full tanks!! That was the slowest climb out from BJC ever, and I learned in N49441.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Because the runway salesman used to work for an alarm company. "But if you sign TODAY, I'll throw in three extra door sensors, er, I mean, feet of runway, for FREE!!!!"

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Well, the only way that evenly divides is by 47' and 149'; do either of those measurements have any significance in concrete construction? I couldn't find anything to indicate that 149' is a standard form width, but that's awfully close to the 150' wide runway. You take forty-seven 149' squares and place them end to end and you have a 149' x 7003' runway.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Here's the FAA's design guidelines for runway length; I don't see anything in there that magically makes 7003' the perfect number to allow certain types of ops, do you?

http://www.faa.gov/airports/resources/advisory_circulars/media/150-5325-4B/150_5325_4b.pdf

 

[PittsDriver]

Has anyone verified the assertion that there are "a lot of 7003' runways?" I don't remember ever seeing any around on the east coast.

 

[jesse]

Has anyone verified the assertion that there are "a lot of 7003' runways?" I don't remember ever seeing any around on the east coast.

I was just about to ask that...

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I was just about to ask that...

There are more than 20:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Dimensions+7003+site:www.airnav.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

 

[timwinters]

Has anyone verified the assertion that there are "a lot of 7003' runways?" I don't remember ever seeing any around on the east coast.

Off the top of my head:

Newton, KS
Springfield, MO
Perryville, MO
Sao Paulo
Lexington, KY
La Guardia
Aspen, CO
Gary, IN
Jupiter, FL
Johnston, PA

It's not like it's a nice round number. Some have suggested "standard overrun" when a contractor is trying to actually build a 7,000' runway but I don't think I buy that.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

There may be no rhyme or "reason"; there are forty 7002' runways and seventy-nine 7001' runways, far more than the 7003' ones.

 

[Teller1900]

We have 9,005' in Norfolk. Doesn't make much more sense than 7,003. On the other hand Newark's 22L/4R has a nice round 10,000.

 

[timwinters]

There may be no rhyme or "reason"; there are forty 7002' runways and seventy-nine 7001' runways, far more than the 7003' ones.

Well, maybe it is "standard overrun" then...especially since there's 79 of 'em out there at 7001'.

 

[RMCN172RG]

They all 7000 feet. Who gave the accountant the tape measure.

How much do we charge per poured foot?

 

[AuntPeggy]

It's recently dawned on me that there are a lot of 7003' runways around. (I usually don't pay too close of attention to runway lengths because anything over 2000' is just peachy)

Anyway...

That's definitely not some random number that someone would pull out of their butt but my internet searches haven't revealed the reason for this length...only more 7003' runways than I alredy knew about.

So why is this a magic number? Is it the shortest runway for a particular make/model?

???????

Okay, experts, show your smarts.

While 7003 seems to have some preference, it is not preferred over, say 7000 or even 7004 and 7001.

selectcount(landing_facility_site_number)Count,physical_runway_length from nfdcrunway where physical_runway_length > 6900 and physical_runway_length < 7100 groupby physical_runway_length orderby physical_runway_length

Count Physical_runway_length
2 6901
1 6902
1 6904
1 6907
1 6930
1 6932
1 6934
1 6952
1 6962
1 6975
1 6976
1 6995
1 6996
2 6997
1 6999
62 7000
11 7001
7 7002
8 7003
8 7004
1 7005
5 7006
1 7008
1 7009
1 7011
1 7012
1 7019
1 7021
1 7023
1 7026
1 7038
1 7049
1 7057
1 7082
1 7094
1 7098

 

[AuntPeggy]

There may be no rhyme or "reason"; there are forty 7002' runways and seventy-nine 7001' runways, far more than the 7003' ones.

You might want to remove the "hits" that include the magic number in the phone number.

AirNav: W24 - Falwell AirportDimensions: 2932 x 50 ft. / 894 x 15 m ... Phone 434-237-7002. Manager: KYLE FALWELL 310 HANGAR ROAD LYNCHBURG, VA 24502. Phone 434-237-7002 ...
www.airnav.com/airport/W24 - Cached - Similar
AirNav: 40IN - Cherry Hill AirportDimensions: 2600 x 75 ft. / 792 x 23 m. Surface: turf. RUNWAY 16, RUNWAY 34 ... 8375 SR135 S BROWN CO. FREETOWN, IN 47235. Phone 812-988-7002 ...
www.airnav.com/airport/40IN - Cached - Similar
AirNav: KAWG - Washington Municipal AirportDimensions: 4000 x 75 ft. / 1219 x 23 m. Surface: concrete/wired/combed, ... 1625 SOUTH AIRPORT RD WASHINGTON, IA 52353. Phone 319-653-7002 ...

Show map of 1625 S Airport Rd, Washington, IA 52353
www.airnav.com/airport/KAWG - Cached - Similar

 

[maddog52]

You mean other than the fact that they are practically a gift from God himself for student pilots and windy conditions?

That's definitely one advantage I'm happ to take advntage of.

The reason I was thinking of was the fact that the tip gear on a B-52 are 148 feet wide. There are alot of 150' x 10000' runways in this country (and around the world) in places that wouldn't seem to justify that much concrete. DOD not GOD at work. We actually studied the locations of these fields and "Natural" landing sites.

 

[Ted]

I used to make the first turn off in my Baron; then, after several sets of brake replacements, I decided to let the plane roll a bit. Don't let everything a CFI can do in a rental plane overly impress you.

Owners have a different perspective; especially owners that don't do their own maintenance.

I was thinking that, too. I try to use my brakes sparingly. I'll touch down and let drag slow me down rather than brakes if at all possible. Runway is free, brakes cost money. Good to be proficient in stopping and getting off the runway fast, of course, as that's frequently required at busier airports.

No offense, but you got screwed over in your training. I've been on that airstrip and it's a yawner.

Agreed. Flying into and out of small airports is no big deal. I mainly want to know that the trees are wide enough apart to fit my wings through.

 

[Mxfarm]

Someone's spec probably calls for 7000' -0/+10 or some such.

The contractor just wants to get paid.

marc

 

[Trapper John]

Someone's spec probably calls for 7000' -0/+10 or some such.

The contractor just wants to get paid.

marc

Could be. The length of the runway is going to vary with temperature. Over a 30 deg. C. temperature swing, the length of a 7,000 foot concrete runway could change as much as 1.5 feet.


Trapper John