The Impossible Turn caught on video

Since I am more of a reader than a poster, I'll take this opportunity to add to my post count and say that I am interested to learn more about AOA but that was some cheesy music. I would be interested to see videos with a better view of the AOA and in slow flight and stalls. There may have been some in the later posts, but I've just seen the original one.
 
Maui Cirrus CFII said:
The data and the facts are clear. If there are 15,000 members on this board, 4 will die in 2017 due to loss of control.
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An interestingly careful choice of words.

All accidents classified as "loss of control" events are not all caused by aerodynamic stall or failure to recognize one.

That's a fairly obvious and transparent manipulation of emotion and phrasing, but only for anyone who doesn't know what NTSB uses the phrase "loss of control" for.

I'd certainly like an AoA indicator, but the manipulative marketing turns me WAY off.
 
denverpilot said:
I'd certainly like an AoA indicator, but the manipulative marketing turns me WAY off.
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Particularly because we just moved another post by the OP to Classifieds. @Maui Cirrus CFII, admit that you're selling these units and quit acting like your posts are simply informational. You're turning off potential customers with your act, and we are moving this thread to Classifieds just like the other one.
 
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Maui Cirrus CFII said:
The data and the facts are clear. If there are 15,000 members on this board, 4 will die in 2017 due to loss of control. If I can get 1 to avoid it, then it's been a good thing.

[tacky website plug]
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I was about to login and say something odd for me, and that was that foks were being a little mean to you, then you posted this gem.

Fear monger AOAs, dude...

I fly a AOA in the work plane, cool tool, but it's also a different level of use in a light plane where you really can feel your wing, and a heavy plane where things can be a little more abrupt.

Long and short, if AOA works so well, why don't you do a simulated engine loss a 500 AGL off a strip, wait the couple seconds it takes for most folks to get to work, and actually to the maneuver with your AOAs and land the thing.

Using fear monger tactics to sell = weak sales person and likley weak product.
 
I have been flying Cirrus SR22 since the 80s and never needed an AoA indicator.
That said, I lie a whole lot and can't contribute much.

I just switched from wine to beer and back to wine to prep for a young eagles flight.

I know what you are thinking "that isn't safe, flying kids without an AoA indicator."
They're kids man. Their mom's see a plane with a chute and it seals the deal.

But Eman's avatar came from a poll where we got to pick it.
You should make your avatar an AoA indicator.

Hashtag Classifieds!!!
 
@James331 brings up a good point.
This forum contains probably the smartest and safest group of pilots on the internet.

None of us have died. You can start a thread and add a poll asking and every single response, and I mean 100% will be from living pilots. None of us are now or ever have been dead.

I would also venture that any of us that are close to death or even if maybe one or two reading this are dead, it is 10X more likely that the cause was liver failure versus plane crashes.

Hashtag Hashtag!!
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have been flying Cirrus SR22 since the 80s and never needed an AoA indicator.
That said, I lie a whole lot and can't contribute much.

I just switched from wine to beer and back to wine to prep for a young eagles flight.

I know what you are thinking "that isn't safe, flying kids without an AoA indicator."
They're kids man. Their mom's see a plane with a chute and it seals the deal.

But Eman's avatar came from a poll where we got to pick it.
You should make your avatar an AoA indicator.

Hashtag Classifieds!!!
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It should be an aoa that somehow incorporates a penis. That way everyone knows who's posting without having to read the ad.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
It should be an aoa that somehow incorporates a penis. That way everyone knows who's posting without having to read the ad.
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My p***s has an AoA indicator on it.

I KNOW I KNOW........ I made a p***s reference.
Kick me off already. However, that is funny as hell (The part where I said it has an AoA indicator)
Think long and hard about it. It is funny.
 
I dont think you can claim that something was 'caught on video' if you staged the maneuver at altitude with cameras rolling.
 
Here is an impossible turn actually 'caught on video'.


The turn turned out to be impossible. I guess he should have had an AOA and it all would have turned out allright.

Btw. he survived this crash. It was a couple of years later that he drilled a Baron into a hillside while scud-running.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Their mom's see a plane with a chute and it seals the deal.
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Wait, wuuut? You've been "sealing deals" with moms at EAA functions? The monkey really had a bad influence on you!

Does E know? Hopefully you've kept this from the kids. ;)

SixPapaCharlie said:
None of us have died. You can start a thread and add a poll asking and every single response, and I mean 100% will be from living pilots. None of us are now or ever have been dead.
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Aww come on, there has to be at least one pilot here who's had an AED strap-on banging on them to revive them, or an EMT slamming 200-1700V across their nipples.

I suppose their medical might have been hard to get back after that, but surely *someone* here has been dead.
[/QUOTE]

SixPapaCharlie said:
Think long and hard about it.
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We see what you did there. :)
 
Reading and listening for comprehension. . .that happen much here? I didn't hear him encourage anyone to try it from 500 feet, or blatantly pitch a product. I did see the AOA on the glareshield. Yeah, the title could have been more accurate, and can the music. . .
 
Sundancer said:
Reading and listening for comprehension. . .that happen much here? I didn't hear him encourage anyone to try it from 500 feet, or blatantly pitch a product. I did see the AOA on the glareshield. Yeah, the title could have been more accurate, and can the music. . .
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Really? Be careful you might be one of the posting dead on this website because all of us don't have aoa gauges installed. The only way this becomes credible is if he creates a new login and makes an informational website that doesn't have his business name on it anywhere. Then sure he's just spreadn the word about benefits of having aoa indication. But you know what ..... that won't happen because it won't help him sell any aoa gauges since... you know....it wouldn't be an advertisement anymore
 
Credible? Perhaps you mean not commercial? I don't know the guy, don't have an AOA (but have flown with one in the past). You could do a Google search - AOA indicators do exist, and they've been around a while.

Touchy group - no logos, no 800 number, or blatant pitch for his product. Still got a pretty good whine response, out of proportion to the offense. . .I did see the display name on the post - not exactly a Super Bowl ad, though, is it?
 
I believe guys who never train for or practice a power loss/return to runway turn are

a) quick to dismiss it as an option
b) the most vocal to diss it
c) incapable of doing it (which explains a and b)
 
ICOPA site has tons of these AOA threads from the OP. Used to read them but the constant advertising turned me off so now I just ignore them. Takes a good concept and advertises the crap out of it until I lose interest. Funny, never happened with vodka
 
weilke said:
Here is an impossible turn actually 'caught on video'.


The turn turned out to be impossible. I guess he should have had an AOA and it all would have turned out allright.

Btw. he survived this crash. It was a couple of years later that he drilled a Baron into a hillside while scud-running.
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Is it me or did it seem like he nearly stalled it? Because
  • at 00:48, the horizontal stabilizer starts buffeting
  • starting at 00:50, elevator deflection seems to vary between neutral and full up repeatedly (likewise, the nose starts bobbing up and down in the front camera view at 00:27)
  • the way the airplane plowed into the ground.
Doesn't seem like best glide was established.
I could be completely wrong, hard to tell without being there.
 
OP, if you want to win this crew over with your videos, you might want to hire a coleslaw eating monkey to do the flying for you. Oh, and make sure your donuts are whole and not half donuts. That seems to be important as well.
 
SkyDog58 said:
OP, if you want to win this crew over with your videos, you might want to hire a coleslaw eating monkey to do the flying for you. Oh, and make sure your donuts are whole and not half donuts. That seems to be important as well.
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And boobs, gotta have some boobies.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Nope. Super Bowl ads cost a lot more.

We can just agree to disagree.
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O.K., NP

I mucked about with turning back, maybe 10 - 15 times over a weekend, long while back, in a 172; with little or no wind, doing a "teardrop" seemed to work best. What I remember is, I had to push pretty hard to get the nose down, as airspeed decayed pretty fast once I pulled the power. Also, when doing it without an AOA, I was a bit surprised how much attention I gave the AS, head inside. The visual clues are startling the first few times, as it takes a fairly steep bank, fairly close to the ground, as you turn through the last 40 degrees or so. Depending on wind and the airport topology, I think 700 feet will work as a practical rule of thumb, for a 172. Lower even, but only if I've practiced lately.

If the airport has a lot of clear space, you can put it somewhere flat(ish) on the airport proper, other than the runway, if you can't align with the runway, wings level, in time. I did some reading (plenty of stuff out there), and though 45 degrees of bank may not be optimum, it's about all I wanted to have cranked in during the last few degrees of turn.

I don't buy into the "five second" startle/oh poop delay, though; count 'em out, and that's a long time. In my one "real" partial power loss, I was pulling to best glide almost instantly, and I ain't no Chuck Yeager - I think most pilots will push (reduce AOA!) almost instinctively.

Anyway, the "never try to turn back" advice is probably as bad as "always try to turn back". You hear a lot of poop from Ace of The Base types about not advising it because some guys can't pull it off; I'd ignore that noise, figure out what works for myself.
 
Sundancer said:
O.K., NP

I mucked about with turning back, maybe 10 - 15 times over a weekend, long while back, in a 172; with little or no wind, doing a "teardrop" seemed to work best. What I remember is, I had to push pretty hard to get the nose down, as airspeed decayed pretty fast once I pulled the power. Also, when doing it without an AOA, I was a bit surprised how much attention I gave the AS, head inside. The visual clues are startling the first few times, as it takes a fairly steep bank, fairly close to the ground, as you turn through the last 40 degrees or so. Depending on wind and the airport topology, I think 700 feet will work as a practical rule of thumb, for a 172. Lower even, but only if I've practiced lately.

If the airport has a lot of clear space, you can put it somewhere flat(ish) on the airport proper, other than the runway, if you can't align with the runway, wings level, in time. I did some reading (plenty of stuff out there), and though 45 degrees of bank may not be optimum, it's about all I wanted to have cranked in during the last few degrees of turn.

I don't buy into the "five second" startle/oh poop delay, though; count 'em out, and that's a long time. In my one "real" partial power loss, I was pulling to best glide almost instantly, and I ain't no Chuck Yeager - I think most pilots will push (reduce AOA!) almost instinctively.

Anyway, the "never try to turn back" advice is probably as bad as "always try to turn back". You hear a lot of poop from Ace of The Base types about not advising it because some guys can't pull it off; I'd ignore that noise, figure out what works for myself.
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No contention here. Well put
 
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