The icing on cake, er, leading edge

MetalCloud

MetalCloud

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MetalCloud
So the Bay Area has pretty bad weather (for us). It's cold, icing levels are relatively low, we have clouds and precip, Airmet Zulus and icing PIREPs.

In another thread I mentioned that I recently picked up ice on the leading edge in full IMC, even with the FIKI on. Found VFR conditions, told ATC I wanted a diversion and lower, and got out of there. Not something I wanted to mess with.

That was my first real encounter with icing (the actual story and details are much much longer). So I guess the point of the thread is to talk about icing.

For starters ... 6-8 inches of rime on the leading edge definitely got my attention and made me make some changes. I'm happy with my divert decision. But now seeing these icing airmets have me, well, grounded. I'm not going anywhere in this slop.

Tell me your icing stories and experiences please!
 
Hold up

So with your wing deice systems on you still picked up 6-8 INCHES in ice?!

Was this a airmet for ice or a sigmet?

Were other FIKI planes having these same issues?


Did you declare?


In the FIKI plane I launch into airmet Zs all the time, normally from the deck up, heck I'd filter them out from cluttering my display on foreflight (along with mt ob and IFR) if I could.
 
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That was my reaction too - 6 to 8 inches seems a bit excessive for a FIKI equipped plane, and probably heavy enough to bring most light airplanes down.
 
James331 said:
Hold up

So with your wing deice systems on you still picked up 6-8 INCHES in ice?!

Was this a airmet for ice or a sigmet?

Were other FIKI planes having these same issues?


Did you declare?


In the FIKI plane I launch into airmet Zs all the time, normally from the deck up, heck I'd filter them out from cluttering my display on foreflight (along with mt ob and IFR) if I could.
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Right. A thin but visible layer about 6 inches along the length of the leading edge. Crazy. Definitely going to get the system checked out.

Was only an airmet. I didn't declare emergency but informed ATC of my condition and my desire to divert. That all went just fine and they accommodated my every request.

Plane handled great and with no discernible difference in handling. But I sure as hell didn't like it. Ran the hell out of the FIKI on the descent to warmer temps and VFR conditions
 
There is some confusion here. Did you have ice 6 inches THICK along the entire leading edges? Or did you have a thin strip about 6 inches LONG on the leading edges?

Was this your first experience with ice?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
There is some confusion here. Did you have ice 6 inches THICK along the entire leading edges? Or did you have a thin strip about 6 inches LONG on the leading edges?

Was this your first experience with ice?
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Thin strip 6 inches long. And yes.. first time
 
Ok. What kind of ice protection do you have, boots or weeping wing? If you have boots, you need to let the ice build up a bit before you pop them. It sounds to me like you didn't have enough ice accumulation to be effective.

I don't know anything about weeping wings but I think they are an anti ice thing more than a de-ice thing.

At any rate, with icing, it is best to find an out rather than staying in it.
 
Like you've been told here before, when we talk about ice, we talk about the thickness, not the length, unless it's clear ice running back along the wing.
Did you have one thin strip of 6" in length, and exactly how thick was it?

Greg is correct, TKS or weeping wings are anti-icing, not de-icing, there's a huge difference.

Years ago I picked up about 1/8" of rime on my instrument check ride in a Beech Sierra. I also had to drop the gear with the valve under the floorboards and land with just a small part of the airport visible through the lower windshield on a circle to land.

This is about 1/4" of rime.

 
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MetalCloud said:
Right. A thin but visible layer about 6 inches along the length of the leading edge. Crazy. Definitely going to get the system checked out.

Was only an airmet. I didn't declare emergency but informed ATC of my condition and my desire to divert. That all went just fine and they accommodated my every request.

Plane handled great and with no discernible difference in handling. But I sure as hell didn't like it. Ran the hell out of the FIKI on the descent to warmer temps and VFR conditions
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Oh, whatever, no biggie, that's nothing, sometimes with the boots on the plane I fly you'll end up with the super thin little strip along the very leading edge that won't go away, no big deal.

I think you need to find a pilot with some ice experience and go up with him.
 
I'm with the others...I heard 6-8 inches and it shocked me that you were still here to talk about it. As pointed out, when people discuss ice it's usually the thickness and/or intensity and type.

If you had a thin 6" long strip on the leading edge most would say that is trace or maybe light depending on how quickly it developed. Being your first time without much experience and probably having heard some icing horror stories, I'm sure it was very uncomfortable for you. If you had TKS and it was running properly, my understanding is it probably shouldn't have developed ice (never used TKS). With boots, doesn't sound like there was enough ice for them to attempt to shed it.

I'd suggest doing what your doing here to learn more, read what your can, take winter wx courses (ie sporty's, ASF, etc) and slowly/safely gain more experience with it. With that said, there is no good ice, it's all bad...unless of course it's in your cocktail.
 
TKS fluid is pretty effective. I've flown in icing conditions for 2 hours with it and it does the job.
 
Yeah I figured you had exaggerated when you had 6-8" on the leading edge. You wouldn't be posting if that had happened.

But, you did the correct thing. Departed the conditions. Good job.
 
Thanks for the comments everyone.

So just learned something... didn't realize size is mentioned in thickness, not length (the 15 year old in my is laughing his ass off). So yes, 6-8 inches in length and about 1/4 or slightly more in thickness in the same spot on both wings. It all melted off by the time I landed so I don't have an accurate measure. And no pictures because I was focused.

I had the TKS flowing right at take off to get the wings all wet because given the conditions I expected icing. I think I was just surprised to see it at all given my training and all my reading. I'd definitely consider it Light based on how quickly it accumulated.

Everything felt ok and I maintained mental control of the situation. It definitely got my attention; I was on the edge of my seat actively thinking about staying ahead of everything. I don't regret the divert decision for a number of reasons.

But yeah. I want to get the system checked out. Perhaps fluid isn't flowing as freely on those two sections.

Just more stuff into the experience bucket.
 
I won't discuss icing in Alaska as the worst times for ice was in the summer.

One time I was in a C-414 at night. A very minimally equipped C-402 was doing approach after approach trying to get in. He was doing the localizer which is not the lowest approach but it was all he had. The GPS approach was the lowest approach and would let me get on the ground. I was in the clouds, holding in icing conditions, when the hapless 402 pilot went missed, AGAIN, and announced to center that he wanted another try. Which would be his 7th. I clicked on frequency and told him others were waiting in ice while he continues to fail, would you please go away.

He did. It was finally my turn. I had been operating the boots, took my last assessment, and decided to go for it. As I hit the final approach fix, I noticed that the ice buildup was increasing. I held my approach speed at 140 KIAS, instead of 120, and held off on flaps and let the gear down. I noticed an increase in the descent rate, so I added power. I broke out as expected, descended to the flair and decreased power a little. I noticed the A/S was around 120 as I was starting to flair for landing. When suddenly the yoke went limp and into my tummy. The plane just fell to the runway, BAM.!!! About 5 feet. Tail stall.

I now know to keep the A/S up around 140 indicated when doing an approach in icing. I did use some of the ice off the plane to add to the rum and ginger ale I had after I put the plane away.
 
Sounds like you have some gaps in your TKS coverage. I've been flying with TKS for 17 years, much of it in Northern California in weather similar to what you're experiencing now, and as long as the wing was wet ice would not accumulate.
 
colojo said:
Sounds like you have some gaps in your TKS coverage. I've been flying with TKS for 17 years, much of it in Northern California in weather similar to what you're experiencing now, and as long as the wing was wet ice would not accumulate.
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Could be a possibility. Cirrus recommends running the TKS system every 30 days to ensure the system is working properly.
 
jordane93 said:
Could be a possibility. Cirrus recommends running the TKS system every 30 days to ensure the system is working properly.
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Yeah. I ran it 12/1 and 12/23. Going to take it to my service center and have them look at it.
 
I got ice about 3/8" thick covering all the leading edges of my Husky at 11000' over Minnesota in May at 35degrees in a Cumulus cloud with no Tstorms. I was in the cloud and it was raining. The first thing I notices is I lost 200' so I trimmed it up and looked at the windshield totally covered with ice. I lost 20 knots airspeed. All leading edges covered with ice. I tell ATC and ask for lower and got it. It was warmer lower. I was up that high because that is where the clouds were and I wanted some IMC. I got it! I was ok because the IMC gave out at 9200' and it was warmer down lower. The ice slid off all at once. It was supercooled droplets of water causing rough surfaced, made white by air bubbles, clear or mixed ice. They put out an airmet because of my ice report. If you dont have deice, all you can do in ice is try and fly out of it. If you cant fly out and load up enough you can stall. Stalling would be very bad. There have been some close calls. Mine wasnt a close call, all turned out fine. But it was a bit scary. What if it had been hail? Avoid those cumulus clouds if they are below 40 degrees.

It was an interesting experience even if it wasnt the worlds greatest idea to venture into that cloud. All the commercial pilots on the freq were entertained. What? a Husky at 11k, in IMC, got ice, what's going to happen next???? This is pretty good! Husky pulled me through. Glad I survived to tell my grandkids. Way to go Husky!
 
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There is a winter approach into Sioux Falls, SD early in my instrument flying that I am not proud of. Told the lineman to put the plane in a hangar before any witnesses could come upon it.
 
MetalCloud said:
Yeah. I ran it 12/1 and 12/23. Going to take it to my service center and have them look at it.
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Run the pi** out of it on the ground and make sure all the panels are working first, if not, then take it to your service center.
It could be that you haven't primed it enough recently to keep all the lines and panels filled.
 
champ driver said:
Run the pi** out of it on the ground and make sure all the panels are working first, if not, then take it to your service center.
It could be that you haven't primed it enough recently to keep all the lines and panels filled.
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Good call. Can't do it at my home field but perhaps I'll fly elsewhere and do that.
 
champ driver said:
Run the pi** out of it on the ground and make sure all the panels are working first, if not, then take it to your service center.
It could be that you haven't primed it enough recently to keep all the lines and panels filled.
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I think it's supposed to have TKS fluid in it, not ****.
 
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